Converting DSD Files to FLAC

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One does not convert an ISO file to FLAC ( or any other music container). An ISO file is a disc image. Btw most music players can play back an ISO gapless

Converting DSF to flac is straightforward but also a lossy process. Don’t do it for gapless. And even if you do please don’t delete the ISO. It’s your disc in one file and a perfect archive
 
One does not convert an ISO file to FLAC ( or any other music container). An ISO file is a disc image. Btw most music players can play back an ISO gapless

Converting DSF to flac is straightforward but also a lossy process. Don’t do it for gapless. And even if you do please don’t delete the ISO. It’s your disc in one file and a perfect archive
True, the software first extracts the DSF files from the ISO, converts them to WAV and then does the final compression to FLAC. I agree with not tossing the ISOs.
 
Just after I went to bed last night I realised that I'd described my playback system wrong. When it comes to stereo, I use a Bluesound Node 2i to play music files via USB, and the Bluesound is connected to my Chord Qutest DAC via digital coax. For multichannel files, I use my OPPO 103D to play music files via USB, and the OPPO is connected to my AVR via HDMI.

Digital Stereo
Bluesound Node 2i>Chord Qutest>Teddy Pardo i80a>Tannoy Eaton Legacy

Digital Surround
Front: OPPO 103D>Marantz NR1510>AVR Pre-Out>Teddy Pardo i80a>Tannoy Eaton Legacy
Rear: OPPO 103D>Marantz NR1510>Kralk Audio BC-30
Centre: no centre
Sub: no sub

The Chord Qutest supports DSD but the Bluesound doesn't, hence the need for FLAC. In saying that, I saw the post about using a cue sheet to get gapless playback from DSD, that sounds like a handy option. And just a moment ago, when I Googled to confirm that the Bluesound doesn't support DSD, I discovered it can convert DSD to FLAC at the touch of a button, as it were. I don't think it can do this by pointing it to an ISO file, but it sounds like it should be able to do it with DSF files. I'm gonna give it a try as it seems like the Blusound programme takes all the guesswork out of it.

I don't have a lot of time this morning before I go to work but I'll download foobar and the Bluesound computer programmes and take one or both programmes for a test drive :)
 
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I experimented with some options there with mixed results.

First of all, I used the ISO2DSD GUI to extract a few albums to DSF with accompanying cue sheets from their respective SACD ISO images. My OPPO could play the DSF files via USB as I knew they would but they didn't play gapless. Fwiw, I placed the cue sheets into the folder containing the appropriate audio files so maybe I was supposed to leave the cue sheets in a parent folder. I don't know. The upshot is I didn't get gapless playback from DSF files even though I had cue sheets.

I then used the Bluesound desktop software (Blu OS) to generate FLAC files from the DSF files I'd generated earlier using ISO2DSD. I'm pleased to say the Blu OS app was literally 'point and click' and it generated FLAC files within the source folder as expected. Interestingly, I tried pointing it to a folder containing multichannel DSF to see if it could generate multichannel FLAC. It was able to do this, although only as two channel FLAC. I think it downmixed all multichannel content to stereo as opposed to generating FLAC stereo based on the front left and right content of the multichannel DSF file but I'm not 100% sure. I'll do another conversion with an album I know to contain exclusive rear channel content to see if that rear channel content can be heard during playback. If it does then I know the Blu OS is downmixing all multichannel content to stereo, and not simply converting the front left and right content to front left and right FLAC. This is just an incidental experiment to see what's going on. It's not part of the bigger picture, as it were.

I won't have time to run some experiments with foobar today so I'll come back to that tomorrow.

EDIT: I converted my 1812 Overture by Cincinnati Pops Orchestra SACD ISO to DSF multichannel and then to FLAC multichannel and it turns out the Blu OS app does indeed downmix all multichannel content to stereo. I chose this album for the experiment as it contains speaker setup content and sure enough, all content was played; left rear content was mixed to left front and right rear content was mixed to front right. It's not exactly relevant to what I'm looking to do but still, it's always good to learn :)

81csyT657OL._AC_UY218_.jpg
 
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I’m typing from iPhone so I’ll make this short:
NOT DSF w/cue files. We said SACD ISO (with a cue file if you need it). A well known setup is to use Jriver and pick the large ISO file. It will show up as likely both 2 ch and, say, 6 ch. play the 6 channel (Jriver calls an SACD ISO “SACD”)

I’ll assume you are testing with a familiar album so fast forward to where the track changes are, and listen. (Cue file is purely an option to see each track but often Jriver will supply their own if it id’d the album. In any case, with or without, play the ISO)
 
I’m typing from iPhone so I’ll make this short:
NOT DSF w/cue files. We said SACD ISO (with a cue file if you need it). A well known setup is to use Jriver and pick the large ISO file. It will show up as likely both 2 ch and, say, 6 ch. play the 6 channel (Jriver calls an SACD ISO “SACD”)

I’ll assume you are testing with a familiar album so fast forward to where the track changes are, and listen. (Cue file is purely an option to see each track but often Jriver will supply their own if it id’d the album. In any case, with or without, play the ISO)

Ah thanks, Ted. I obviously didn't register the part about cue sheets being used with SACD ISOs; and I didn't know that the OPPO could play SACD ISOs. I'll give it a go today :)
 
I just tried playing an SACD ISO on my OPPO 103D there but after clicking onto the CUE sheet and trying to play a file, nothing happened. I'm pretty sure my player is on the latest firmware so if SACD ISO playback was a feature of an old firmware well I guess mine doesn't have it anymore. Or, as might be the case, am I doing it wrong?
 
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I’m typing from iPhone so I’ll make this short:
NOT DSF w/cue files. We said SACD ISO (with a cue file if you need it). A well known setup is to use Jriver and pick the large ISO file. It will show up as likely both 2 ch and, say, 6 ch. play the 6 channel (Jriver calls an SACD ISO “SACD”)

I’ll assume you are testing with a familiar album so fast forward to where the track changes are, and listen. (Cue file is purely an option to see each track but often Jriver will supply their own if it id’d the album. In any case, with or without, play the ISO)

Ah, I just realised we're talking about different playback options. I'll be using my OPPO 103D for multichannel playback, with multichannel content loaded onto a USB drive and output to my AVR via HDMI, and my Bluesound Node 2i for digital stereo, with audio output via digital coax to my Chord DAC. I now get that you're talking about using JRiver for SACD ISO playback - I wrongly assumed that you mentioned SACD ISO playback in the context of my using an OPPO but I now see I misunderstood your post there.

Fwiw, I can't forward DSD from my OPPO to my AVR as the latter doesn't support DSD, and my Bluesound doesn't support DSD so whatever solution I end up with I think it's going to have to involve PCM one way or another, hence my leaning towards converting DSD to FLAC.
 
First of all, I used the ISO2DSD GUI to extract a few albums to DSF with accompanying cue sheets from their respective SACD ISO images. My OPPO could play the DSF files via USB as I knew they would but they didn't play gapless.

Because all this stuff always has to be convoluted and confusing, there are two different types of cue sheets.

One type is functionally just a playlist: It lists multiple files and controls what order they're played in. If you're not getting gapless playback, I assume that you have each track in an individual DSF and the cue sheet is just making them play in order.

The other type of cue sheet is used to identify track points within a single large file. In my experience, those work great on my Oppo 103 and 203.

ISO2DSD will create either type, but it's not always obvious how to go about it. And, though I haven't done it in a while and might be crazy, I think the GUI will only create a whole-disc DFF + cue sheet, not a DSF. But you can get DSF + cue sheet at the command line if you're comfortable with that:

Code:
# Multichannel DSF with cue sheet and concatenated tracks 
"C:\SACD\sacd_extract.exe" --mch-tracks --output-dsf --concatenate -t 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,10 --convert-dst --export-cue --input="N:\AudioWorkspace\When The Levee Breaks\When The Levee Breaks\When The Levee Breaks.iso"

The whole-album/single file cue sheet I'm talking about looks like this:

Code:
REM GENRE Rock 
REM DATE 1974 
CATALOG CH90323 
PERFORMER "Bob Dylan" 
TITLE "Blood on the Tracks" 
FILE "Blood on the Tracks.dsf" WAVE 
  TRACK 01 AUDIO 
    TITLE "Tangled up in Blue" 
    ISRC USSM10307474 
    INDEX 00 00:00:00 
    INDEX 01 00:02:00 
  TRACK 02 AUDIO 
    TITLE "Simple Twist of Fate" 
    ISRC USSM10307475 
    INDEX 00 05:42:57 
    INDEX 01 05:43:57 
  TRACK 03 AUDIO 
    TITLE "You're a Big Girl Now" 
    ISRC USSM10307476 
    INDEX 00 10:00:71 
    INDEX 01 10:02:35 
  TRACK 04 AUDIO 
    TITLE "Idiot Wind" 
    ISRC USSM10307477 
    INDEX 00 14:33:69 
    INDEX 01 14:37:69 
  TRACK 05 AUDIO 
    TITLE "You're Gonna Make Me Lonesome When You Go" 
    ISRC USSM10307478 
    INDEX 00 22:18:67 
    INDEX 01 22:20:00 
  TRACK 06 AUDIO 
    TITLE "Meet Me in the Morning" 
    ISRC USSM10307479 
    INDEX 00 25:14:21 
    INDEX 01 25:17:01 
  TRACK 07 AUDIO 
    TITLE "Lily, Rosemary and the Jack of Hearts" 
    ISRC USSM10307480 
    INDEX 00 29:35:74 
    INDEX 01 29:38:70 
  TRACK 08 AUDIO 
    TITLE "If You See Her, Say Hello" 
    ISRC USSM10307481 
    INDEX 00 38:29:59 
    INDEX 01 38:30:60 
  TRACK 09 AUDIO 
    TITLE "Shelter from the Storm" 
    ISRC USSM10307482 
    INDEX 00 43:16:41 
    INDEX 01 43:17:35 
  TRACK 10 AUDIO 
    TITLE "Buckets of Rain" 
    ISRC USSM10307483 
    INDEX 00 48:18:19 
    INDEX 01 48:20:12

You can see there's only one FILE reference and the following track breaks all refer to the timepoints within a single file.

I always have my cue sheet in the same directory as the audio file.
 
Because all this stuff always has to be convoluted and confusing, there are two different types of cue sheets.

One type is functionally just a playlist: It lists multiple files and controls what order they're played in. If you're not getting gapless playback, I assume that you have each track in an individual DSF and the cue sheet is just making them play in order.

The other type of cue sheet is used to identify track points within a single large file. In my experience, those work great on my Oppo 103 and 203.

ISO2DSD will create either type, but it's not always obvious how to go about it. And, though I haven't done it in a while and might be crazy, I think the GUI will only create a whole-disc DFF + cue sheet, not a DSF. But you can get DSF + cue sheet at the command line if you're comfortable with that:

Code:
# Multichannel DSF with cue sheet and concatenated tracks
"C:\SACD\sacd_extract.exe" --mch-tracks --output-dsf --concatenate -t 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,10 --convert-dst --export-cue --input="N:\AudioWorkspace\When The Levee Breaks\When The Levee Breaks\When The Levee Breaks.iso"

The whole-album/single file cue sheet I'm talking about looks like this:

Code:
REM GENRE Rock
REM DATE 1974
CATALOG CH90323
PERFORMER "Bob Dylan"
TITLE "Blood on the Tracks"
FILE "Blood on the Tracks.dsf" WAVE
  TRACK 01 AUDIO
    TITLE "Tangled up in Blue"
    ISRC USSM10307474
    INDEX 00 00:00:00
    INDEX 01 00:02:00
  TRACK 02 AUDIO
    TITLE "Simple Twist of Fate"
    ISRC USSM10307475
    INDEX 00 05:42:57
    INDEX 01 05:43:57
  TRACK 03 AUDIO
    TITLE "You're a Big Girl Now"
    ISRC USSM10307476
    INDEX 00 10:00:71
    INDEX 01 10:02:35
  TRACK 04 AUDIO
    TITLE "Idiot Wind"
    ISRC USSM10307477
    INDEX 00 14:33:69
    INDEX 01 14:37:69
  TRACK 05 AUDIO
    TITLE "You're Gonna Make Me Lonesome When You Go"
    ISRC USSM10307478
    INDEX 00 22:18:67
    INDEX 01 22:20:00
  TRACK 06 AUDIO
    TITLE "Meet Me in the Morning"
    ISRC USSM10307479
    INDEX 00 25:14:21
    INDEX 01 25:17:01
  TRACK 07 AUDIO
    TITLE "Lily, Rosemary and the Jack of Hearts"
    ISRC USSM10307480
    INDEX 00 29:35:74
    INDEX 01 29:38:70
  TRACK 08 AUDIO
    TITLE "If You See Her, Say Hello"
    ISRC USSM10307481
    INDEX 00 38:29:59
    INDEX 01 38:30:60
  TRACK 09 AUDIO
    TITLE "Shelter from the Storm"
    ISRC USSM10307482
    INDEX 00 43:16:41
    INDEX 01 43:17:35
  TRACK 10 AUDIO
    TITLE "Buckets of Rain"
    ISRC USSM10307483
    INDEX 00 48:18:19
    INDEX 01 48:20:12

You can see there's only one FILE reference and the following track breaks all refer to the timepoints within a single file.

I always have my cue sheet in the same directory as the audio file.

That's very helpful indeed! I'll see if I can get that to work tomorrow :)
 
Sorry, don't feel like reading all the posts.
Simply, I want to convert some of my DSF files to FLAC.
Reason is the car units will play any kind of FLAC stereo and MCH, but will not play any DSF.
Wondering @HomerJAU if MMH will do that or another software?
I do not want to permanently change the files as I want to keep the DSF files as they are for playing at home on my JRiver.
Maybe you could help me?
 
Sorry, don't feel like reading all the posts.
Simply, I want to convert some of my DSF files to FLAC.
Reason is the car units will play any kind of FLAC stereo and MCH, but will not play any DSF.
Wondering @HomerJAU if MMH will do that or another software?
I do not want to permanently change the files as I want to keep the DSF files as they are for playing at home on my JRiver.
Maybe you could help me?
I do that conversion with Foobar. You need to install the SACD/DSD Foobar plugin and set it to output the bit rate you want (44.1 or 88.2kHz).
 
Or just use Jriver to convert them..

A couple tips:
* Right click on now playing files and choose "library tools -> convert format"
* Then choose FLAC encoder
* In options (underneath flac encoder window), make sure you check either of the boxes that says "leave original file" (and either save new file to folder or not)
 
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Or just use Jriver to convert them
Thank you, I see in TOOLS>ADVANCED TOOLS>CONVERT FORMAT.
But if I did that wouldn't I permanently convert them in my NAS?
I don't want to play converted DSF files at home in JRiver, when at home I want to keep them as DSF.
 
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