HiRez Poll Cooper, Alice - BILLION DOLLAR BABIES [Blu-Ray Audio]

[RustyM]

Oppo BDP-93 > Marantz 4140 > Advent Legacy III loudspeakers

EXECUTIVE SUMMARY:
I voted 10 because that’s as much as I can give it. The quad Blu Ray presentation is such a joy. Recommended without hesitation.

My relationship with this album began in early 1973 when it was released. I saw reporter Harold Greene do an Eyewitness News (ch 7 Los Angeles) segment on the band’s press conference. May still have an audio cassette from that broadcast. That was 5-6 months before Fall 1973 when Warner-Elektra-Atlantic launched Q8 / CD-4 and licensed Q4 reels eventually. We would get Muscle Of Love first, close to release date. It wasn’t until May(?) 1974 when we’d be able to buy a B$B Q8 or CD-4 album.

What a treat! WEA went back in the catalog and issued some strong previous albums (Paranoid, Sumner Breeze, etc) in quad formats. As many are well aware, the conversions we enjoyed all had to be derived from Q8 or CD-4 as, inexplicably (someone knows why?) there was no Q4 reel ever issued for B$B.

Side 1 is just about perfect to me; Side 2 comes pretty close. To my mind, Billion Dollar Babies was the pinnacle of Vincent Furnier’s rock star dreams. This album and tour was so far over the top; much like ELP’s Brain Salad Surgery, also released in 1973. [Artist: Where do we go from here?] I wanted to see it - I was 15 with no drivers license yet. The live concert on the 2 CD re-issue version of B$B is very good musically although tame by todays standards.

Muscle Of Love has some great tracks and a couple that fall kinda flat for me. MOL to B$B seems like what Who Do We Think We Are is to Machine Head. Identical musicians yet different results. I know Michael Bruce was very ill and future ACB members were already ghosting for him on tour. I can enjoy Muscle of Love for the most part because it’s the original band members producing that signature sound. What came later is certainly good, it’s just not the same. B$B is the winner, content wise.

One thing I’ve noticed about these QUADIO Blu Rays is no temptation to play with the remote balancer to correct or offset anything. Press PLAY and go. It’s such a powerful, clear, centered album presentation! Okay, maybe a few channel isolation moves like the old days but oh what this can reveal now.

During the Paranoid review I referenced a tambourine on a song ((Electric Funeral?) in the left rear channel. It was such a clear, tactile impulse insistently transmitted to the ear at such a level of fidelity. For Billion Dollar Babies, one such moment happens during I Love The Dead. Listen for a wood block in the right rear speaker. I did isolate the channel briefly which caused me to notice it. What’s cool is going back to the centered balance and still clearly hearing it! I will go back and find more of these elements that add up for a spectacular result.

All of the panning moves resolve better to me than any previous version I’ve heard. There were some foundational mid/band counterpoint instruments heard more clearly now in support all of that cacophony surfing on top of it! Sweet. The term ‘coherent’ comes to mind. Solid presentation. This one will get played the most of these first four QUADIO Blu Ray discs.

I enjoyed your review.

 

[jimfisheye]

I'm going to be easy to please on this one too. I had a poor copy of the Q8. Just getting a copy of this free of that generation loss is a win!

Reading some of the critique and I hear those points too. I hear shortcomings in a lot of '70s quad releases that sound like a combination of less time budgeted to the quad mix, experimental mixes, and treating it as a novelty.

A number of cool moments in the mix though. I heard it in the mutilated Q8 I had and I'm finally hearing it in hi-fi here. I thought that DVDA remix was kind of phoned-in creatively and surround-wise and it came across as insulting that they chose to release it in place of this original that actually has some creative spirit. Well mixed and had fidelity but just sat there - like so many remixes done without any of the band or original engineers involved just to fit the slot on a DVD or BR reissue.

Maybe not an award winning mix but very welcome all the same. The mastering sounds on-point. Especially in this day and age of brutally harsh destructive mastering hack jobs.

 

[par4ken]

This was likely Alice's most commercially successful album with three bonafide AM radio hits. For me it rates lower than all the earlier releases sans "Pretty for You".

The single "Elected" came out in the Presidential election year 1972. It was a reworked and reworded version of "Reflected" from "Pretties for You". That first album is worth getting for that one track alone. Elected makes me think of the 1975 movie "Linda Lovelace for President" and of The Royal Guardsmen 1968 election year release "Snoopy for President". "No More Mr Nice Guy" was the hit that I remember being played the most. The weakest track "Hello Hooray" was the other hit from the album.

My cousin had a copy of the stereo album, In my then normal fashion I made (or he did it for me) a cassette copy of it. A good solid album but not up to the standard of "love It to Death" or "Killer" I didn't get my own copy until several years later when I purchased the CD-4.

This release is still great! The 5.1 DVD-Audio re-mix was always a bit disappointing surround wise, but the quad is great! The mix is an eight or nine the performance and sound quality also eight or nine. I'm rounding up because I love Alice so a solid 9.

 

[gvl_guy]

I was truly disappointed in this. Maybe because I didn't really pay attention to my CD-4 disc all that much when I would play it.

The music was A+ for Alice. This was one of those albums that my friends and I would play when we'd get together. Alice was cool and irreverent. I was in middle school at the time. My goody two shoes-ness made me feel like a bit of a rebel when I listened to this.

But when I played the Blu-ray, the mix kind of disappointed me. Sure, there was some cool stuff going on, but the rear speakers just didn't seem to be doing much. In fact, I kept getting up to check my receiver to make sure I had all my settings correct. I just expected more.

This is definitely not Rhino's fault by any means. It's the original quad mix, so whoever the producer was. Would I buy it again? In a heartbeat.

I gave it a 7

BTW, not sure if this has been mentioned, but my disc seemed to have more tracks than were listed on the label.

 

[madscot]

I was truly disappointed in this. Maybe because I didn't really pay attention to my CD-4 disc all that much when I would play it.

The music was A+ for Alice. This was one of those albums that my friends and I would play when we'd get together. Alice was cool and irreverent. I was in middle school at the time. My goody two shoes-ness made me feel like a bit of a rebel when I listened to this.

But when I played the Blu-ray, the mix kind of disappointed me. Sure, there was some cool stuff going on, but the rear speakers just didn't seem to be doing much. In fact, I kept getting up to check my receiver to make sure I had all my settings correct. I just expected more.

This is definitely not Rhino's fault by any means. It's the original quad mix, so whoever the producer was. Would I buy it again? In a heartbeat.

I gave it a 7

BTW, not sure if this has been mentioned, but my disc seemed to have more tracks than were listed on the label.

There’s 10 tracks, the blu ray plays the quad and then the stereo tracks straight away which makes it seem like more than 10

 

[Frank Lovejoy]

Reading the comments and reviews (so far) for this one warms my heart. Although 'Paranoid' seems to be the clear overall winner of this Quadio batch, B$B gives Red Octopus hard competition as the runner-up. My older brother brought this home just before I turned 8, and it's the first full album of music that I fell in love with. Whether you love his voice or hate it, Vince was (and still is) a shouter in the tradition of Little Richard, and a character actor in the tradition of old Hollywood, of which he was becoming a part with this album. Personally, I LOVE that voice from whisper to scream. Though I came to love LITD through SO a lot more (and would love to hear those albums mixed to 5.1, if possible), there's no denying that this album was the band + Bob Ezrin at the peak of their powers and their most inventive and modern in the studio.

Before writing, I listened to the original stereo, then for perspective, I listened to the DVD-A, as well, and it was a good choice. Clearly the DVD-A owed MUCH to the quad, which I didn't realize. Though some tracks obviously had to be remixed for the DVD-A to more closely align to the stereo, there's a good deal of the quad in there such as most of the vocals being set center-left. Like some others, I found the DVD-A quite limp and disappointing overall when I bought it in the early aughts, which helped pump me up for this release.

Some have commented that they thought there were alternate takes used for the quad. The only one I heard was the final verse on 'Raped And Freezin', a song which is less edited than the stereo. There ARE little yelps and shouts throughout the album that sadly didn't make the quad. I think it was @quicksrt that stated that the mixes here can be pretty wild. Agreed, but I'd say it's warranted, or at least understandable, due to the nature of this album. Alice in all speakers for 'Elected'? He's an annoying politician trying to get in your face, so sure, why not. For B$B, you've got Alice left front and rear, Donovan right front and rear, 1st guitar solo front left and right, 2nd guitar solo rear left and right. which I find absolutely cool, however unorthodox it might be.

The only real complaint I have as far as mixing goes is that the quad missed the stereo's cohesion in editing and building tension. The aforementioned 'Raped' is a good bridge song between 'Hello, Hurray' and 'Elected', but the less edited quad goes on for too long (much like this review ). 'Generation Landslide' unedited is interesting, but could have wrapped up without the drum outro. 'Sick Things' is missing the build up from the stereo where that ultra distorted guitar comes in at the 2nd verse, and is mixed more subtly, building up to that great guitar solo at the end. And the lack of segues between ST, Mary Ann, and I Love The Dead really takes energy away from the final quarter of the album.

ILTD is worth specific mention because, though it's always been a favorite and IMO one of the groups best recordings. I didn't comprehend what a kitchen sink/Brian Wilson type production it is. Hearing so many more of the elements here (and you can pick out a LOT in the stereo) was just mind blowing. Since the cowrite goes to Bob Ezrin, it seems reasonable that much of this baby was his creation, as well as the group's. The downsides are the missed lead guitar intro which really sets the mood for me (and unedited licks that don't add much), the mixing of the doo wop vocals to the front, where they can barely be made out amongst the cluster of voices and instruments (the DVD-A mix put them in the rears - one good move), and the editing (or lack of repeating) of the final 3 orchestral hits before Alice says "Nothing" (which the DVD-A unpardonably edited out altogether).

Sonically, this mix is SO clear and present and vibrant, that I found it infectious. For all the lifting that it did from the quad, the DVD-A has none of this. Some have complained that the surrounds were under used, but the balance seemed overall very reasonable to me, though with my configuration, I ended up bringing the surrounds DOWN 4 dB so as not to overpower the fronts. The bass and occasionally the kick drum were a bit too light for my taste, which could again be my setup, but the stereo sounds fine and well balanced.

To wrap it up:
Music - 9.5
Mix - 7
Sonics - 10
Overall rating - 9 out of 10

 

[BillTubes]

Like a lot of the reviewers I have listened to this album many times in stereo but not the quad version. I was never in love with the DVD-A mix but I really like this quad mix. It is so different then the stereo version that it is like hearing the album for the first time.
Alice is a bit of a comedian and is very theatrical in his presentation, maybe not everybody’s taste. This is my favorite of the 4 quadios
Music 10
Fidelity 9
Mix 9
give it a 9

 

[key_wiz]

I had this album as a kid and it’s not one that has aged particularly well, IMO. Definitely an artifact of the era. But that aside, the quad mix sucks.

Not that it isn’t active and doesn’t have good panning and placements. It does. But it sounds SO much more wimpy than the stereo. There’s no punch to the bass and drums. The guitars are buried on most tracks. Alice’s vocal, in all four speakers, is way too loud.

But some of the stuff moving around the speakers is fun. But doesn’t make up for what simply isn’t an enjoyable listen. Rarely will I say I prefer the stereo mix.

And what? No dollar bill in the packaging? kinda joking about that, but we did get reprints of everything in the Chicago box. Even the iron-on patch in “VIII”! And I recall there being a lyric sheet with this LP originally?

Anyway, packaging aside, this is a disappointment. Not Rhino’s fault. The quad mix is what it is. I just don’t know how they missed on this one so much. Almost sounds as if stuff is out of phase?

Can’t do more than a “6” on this one, unfortunately.

 

[cbmmm3]

I had this album as a kid and it’s not one that has aged particularly well, IMO. Definitely an artifact of the era. But that aside, the quad mix sucks.

Not that it isn’t active and doesn’t have good panning and placements. It does. But it sounds SO much more wimpy than the stereo. There’s no punch to the bass and drums. The guitars are buried on most tracks. Alice’s vocal, in all four speakers, is way too loud.

But some of the stuff moving around the speakers is fun. But doesn’t make up for what simply isn’t an enjoyable listen. Rarely will I say I prefer the stereo mix.

And what? No dollar bill in the packaging? kinda joking about that, but we did get reprints of everything in the Chicago box. Even the iron-on patch in “VIII”! And I recall there being a lyric sheet with this LP originally?

Anyway, packaging aside, this is a disappointment. Not Rhino’s fault. The quad mix is what it is. I just don’t know how they missed on this one so much. Almost sounds as if stuff is out of phase?

Can’t do more than a “6” on this one, unfortunately.

Gee Whiz..........err...key whiz. I agree on your assessment. Its a lifeless disc. I did not rate it yet but thinking about a 7

 

[key_wiz]

Gee Whiz..........err...key whiz. I agree on your assessment. Its a lifeless disc. I did not rate it yet but thinking about a 7

I ask everyone to A/B the quad and stereo of “Raped and Freezin’”, maybe the album’s most straight ahead rocker, and tell me if you don’t agree. The stereo is punchy and rocks. The quad is limp and lifeless.

It’s unfortunate, because otherwise it’s such a fun and adventurous mix.

 

[jaybird100]

I had this album as a kid and it’s not one that has aged particularly well, IMO. Definitely an artifact of the era. But that aside, the quad mix sucks.

Not that it isn’t active and doesn’t have good panning and placements. It does. But it sounds SO much more wimpy than the stereo. There’s no punch to the bass and drums. The guitars are buried on most tracks. Alice’s vocal, in all four speakers, is way too loud.

But some of the stuff moving around the speakers is fun. But doesn’t make up for what simply isn’t an enjoyable listen. Rarely will I say I prefer the stereo mix.

And what? No dollar bill in the packaging? kinda joking about that, but we did get reprints of everything in the Chicago box. Even the iron-on patch in “VIII”! And I recall there being a lyric sheet with this LP originally?

Anyway, packaging aside, this is a disappointment. Not Rhino’s fault. The quad mix is what it is. I just don’t know how they missed on this one so much. Almost sounds as if stuff is out of phase?

Can’t do more than a “6” on this one, unfortunately.

It's the same mix as what's on the CD-4 LP. I thought it sounded great, but that's me. I'll take all the Quadio they want to give us!

 

[key_wiz]

It's the same mix as what's on the CD-4 LP. I thought it sounded great, but that's me. I'll take all the Quadio they want to give us!

I’ll take all the Quadio too. It’s not like I’m going to be sending this back or anything. I just doubt I’ll play it again.

 

[fetchmybeer]

I ask everyone to A/B the quad and stereo of “Raped and Freezin’”, maybe the album’s most straight ahead rocker, and tell me if you don’t agree. The stereo is punchy and rocks. The quad is limp and lifeless.

It’s unfortunate, because otherwise it’s such a fun and adventurous mix.

I wouldn't say limp and lifeless. I do get what you're saying, but I find that these issues are more common with quad mixes because they are more likely to be true 4 channel mixes rather than a more immersive 5.1 or Atmos type mix. The quads are mixed for that 70s setup, while the 5.1s for the modern setup with the subs, center speaker, etc... So when you have a quad like this one where the 4 channels to me sound louder in the rears than a normal 5.1 would, you're going to perceive a bit more imbalance than you would from a stereo mix. But there's a tradeoff. Yeah, you're not getting all the punch out of 2 speakers anymore, but I'm hearing those guitars really well behind me, and I hear those tom drums during the bridge ridiculously better in the quad mix.

I happen to love this quad the most out of all the 4 that Rhino released with this last batch because it is a very active mix and makes the best use of that setup. But it's not the stereo mix. And to be fair, I was not familiar with this album outside of the title track and No More Mr. Nice Guy, so I didn't have a preexisting bias toward the stereo mix.

 

[jimfisheye]

No disagreement that some surround mixes don't quite get the weight and punch right! The "pulled apart" effect. And there are certainly more than a few of this kind of ringer in select '70s quad mixes.

There sure as heck isn't any limitation in mixing to 4 channels that causes this though! Thinking out loud... You can mix for great punch into two speakers. Now you get two more speakers and suddenly you can't do the thing you could do before with only two?! Of course you can!

5.1 and 7.1.4 aren't some weirdo different thing because someone decided to use the word "immersive" instead of "surround" on all the recent brochures either. The main quad channels are still there in the 4 corners and they still usually carry the weight of the mix. (Some of us towed those rears in 10 or 15 deg with 4.0 quad too, fyi.)

It stinks to have to admit it sometimes but there are some works that had better mixes in stereo. Or at least some elements. I still think I'm hearing stereo mixes that have had rework time with all the t's crossed and i's dotted while their quad counterparts had a tighter budget and the 1st draft mix was released. For a number of 1970s quads at least. I can just hear some producer saying something like "You're good here. No one is going to hear this version anyway. Put the rest of the time into the stereo mix!"

 

[fetchmybeer]

No disagreement that some surround mixes don't quite get the weight and punch right! The "pulled apart" effect. And there are certainly more than a few of this kind of ringer in select '70s quad mixes.

There sure as heck isn't any limitation in mixing to 4 channels that causes this though! Thinking out loud... You can mix for great punch into two speakers. Now you get two more speakers and suddenly you can't do the thing you could do before with only two?! Of course you can!

5.1 and 7.1.4 aren't some weirdo different thing because someone decided to use the word "immersive" instead of "surround" on all the recent brochures either. The main quad channels are still there in the 4 corners and they still usually carry the weight of the mix. (Some of us towed those rears in 10 or 15 deg with 4.0 quad too, fyi.)

It stinks to have to admit it sometimes but there are some works that had better mixes in stereo. Or at least some elements. I still think I'm hearing stereo mixes that have had rework time with all the t's crossed and i's dotted while their quad counterparts had a tighter budget and the 1st draft mix was released. For a number of 1970s quads at least. I can just hear some producer saying something like "You're good here. No one is going to hear this version anyway. Put the rest of the time into the stereo mix!"

Oh I agree completely (and like you referring to it as "the pulled apart effect"). They absolutely CAN do it (make the mix "carry the weight") but they DIDN'T in many cases for whatever reason. Could be like you said with the producers not really caring as much. I think there were also times when they viewed it for what it was-- a 4 channel mix to be spread out accordingly. All these quadio mixes that I've heard, and most of the old quad mixes on DV too, have that kind of feeling to my ear. They weren't mixed with the modern tech and view of it as a cohesive soundtrack or soundscape, but as almost a gimmick. Some are as simple as drums in 1, bass in 2, vocals in 3, guitars in 4, which just isn't going to "carry the weight". And that's sometimes fine to me. I love most of them and can hear all the different moving parts and appreciate how a song was put together better than I can when I hear it in stereo.

As for this particular BDB mix, I personally don't have those issues. I have a mix that feels a little different, weight-wise or otherwise, but still captures the whimsy and craziness that was early 70s Alice Cooper.

 

[omnipotent1]

Best sounding release of the 4 new quadios, IMHO (and they all sound great). Also the most adventurous mix. The drums stand out to me, and bass response is good, as my sub is triggered more than it is on Red Octopus, which to me sounds the most like this album.

I have friends who are a bit older who are really into the old AC stuff, and I've never really understood why, though I've always liked "I'm Eighteen". Well, now I get it. Alice doesn't always sound like he does-- he can actually sing a bit. The songs are fun, whimsical, and theatrical when it is required. That comes out in the mix.

I would be curious as to any fidelity differences between this and the old DVD-A pressing of this, as that one really was not rated very highly. This one to me is a 10.

Well IMHO the DVD-A has far better mastering,bass is clearer punchier and just sound excellent.BUT the mix on the DVD-A is nothing like the OG quad which has a far superior more active mix.
In an ideal world I'd have the DVD-A mastering on the Quad mix.

 

[quicksrt]

The quad mix hare has a deficit of rhythmic drive in the bass and some guitars. However, the last two songs "I Love the Dead" and "Many Ann" are definitive mixes in quad imo. The mastering could have helped the bass somewhat, but I think not the rhythm guitar issue.

 

[JoshBasswood]

Interesting development: a 50th anniversary CD or Vinyl reissue was announced today. No boxset that combines the quadio bluray with CD's or Vinyl though.
https://superdeluxeedition.com/news...dollar-babies-trillion-dollar-deluxe-edition/

 

[anibal]

This is a super enjoyable release for me.
I am not very familiar with "Alice Cooper - the band", I am more acquainted with "Alice Copper - the solo act". So I can say the quad version is the first version I heard of the full album!

Having said that, I am unaware of the differences with the stereo version. I am impressed with the quad mix, I think it is a standout for the era. The sound is too bright for my taste, but I think that is the actual sound of this band. I do like "Alice Cooper - the singer"'s voice, but I agree that it is mixed too high in many songs.

My vote is 8, this one is a lot of fun, I was pleasantly surprised and I liked most of the songs.

 

[kfbkfb]

(I also have the DVD-A [can only play the DD 5.1 mix though]) - After several plays, I give the quad mix and the music each a 7 (I never owned the stereo mix/album).


Kirk Bayne