Dolby Atmos Upmixing on the Streaming Services (Unacceptable!)
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harync
Senior Member
When Dolby announced that thousands of tracks were going to be mixed in Atmos, this was the fear of a lot of people.WOW!!!
700 tracks.. its worse than i thought
I wonder how much of this is budget or artist driven? On the Pure Audio Atmos Panel, Steve Genewick and Andrew Scheps talked about artists that blow the entire production budget on the stereo mix when they would do better have Atmos and stereo mixes created simultaneously.
I'd guess the better mixes are with newer artists who have an interest in Atmos and/or the budget to pay for the time it takes to make a good mix.
In the case of the catalog titles, maybe WEA is just telling Alan J Han and others to mix them as quickly and cheaply as possible unless the artist shows an interest (creatively or monetarily).
Let's not sugar coat anything, time is important.
If Warner is getting per stream type payments, then it's obviously a get richer quick money grab, quality and customers be damned, which makes me believe Mr. Han is complicit.
If Warner is getting per stream type payments, then it's obviously a get richer quick money grab, quality and customers be damned, which makes me believe Mr. Han is complicit.
he needs to do the right thing and stop, or be stopped and now before its too late and Atmos gets a reputation for being a total load of fake nonsense, which we know it absolutely is not!
really, a paid professional shouldn't be boasting about what he's doing, he should be ashamed of himself.
why? well because he isn't actually mixing anything!
he is running 2-channel tracks, mostly Stereo and seemingly hundreds of them, through an upmixing process and calling what comes out the other end, Atmos.
i view mixing music as an art in and of itself and in particular Surround Music mixing takes real skill as well as feel and that's why the best in the business, the likes of Steven Wilson, Elliot Scheiner, Bob Clearmountain, Greg Penny, Alan Parsons (et al) get true recognition from people here because what they do is a true artform. a mix can make or break a track. there isn't a Grammy for Immersive mixing just for fun.
now here we have this ham-fisted bun vendor appear outta bumfuck nowhere, churning out hundreds of tracks with some cookie-cutter process, hoping the listening public will be too uninitiated to notice and in the process i feel making a mockery of genuine Surround Music mixing and those who appreciate it.
the stench of Silverline still hangs in the air decades later.
this arsehole could single-handedly ruin Spatial Audio altogether.
UGH. LIVID.
If Alan J. Han is an “immersive audio engineer” then I will begin claiming to be hung like a porn star.
WTF!!
i bet someone the ilk of George Massenburg would be thoroughly unimpressed with what his former pupil's upto. wow i'm furious!!
sharpening my pitchfork as we speak!
ok, i don't have a pitchfork but i do have a pitcher!
cheers!
sharpening my pitchfork as we speak!
ok, i don't have a pitchfork but i do have a pitcher!
cheers!
post #64 is as fine a start for sloppy pouting rage as I've ever seen!..and WTH- two more clinks for good measure
Whoa--hold on, @fredblue & @J. PUPSTER! I'm as pissed as anyone about the upmixed rubbish, and the fact that Han also works for a company whose main product is on-the-fly AI upmixing makes me very suspicious. But he's been a working professional for at least five years, and Seoul (& Toronto) ain't "bumfuck nowhere." (Although the allusion to "Terror of the Autons" is apt!) So I want to get the facts first and find out what's going on here. Until they're all in, I'm more inclined to direct my rage at Warners and Apple and Dolby than at a gun-for-hire.
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Fair point (although I know nothing of Dr. Who trivia)
I'll just head back to my old Quad LPs for comfort; harkening back to the days when Men were Men and Quad was misunderstood...
I am as pissed about this as any of you. I think we need to be looking at this in both short and long term to get anywhere.
As a long term suggestion could we make a list over mixes to avoid? A searchable/sortable list with artist, song title, record label and a link to Apple/Tidal. If we maintained a such a list that are easily accessable through a single URL/link, it would become a reference to audio people. A small warning at the top explaining what an upmix is and why QQ is informing about this. It needs a catchy name that is easy to understand. This is what we promote whenever we can among music and sound interested people on the internet and elsewhere. "Verified as upmix by QQ members".
We should also have a list number two with highly recommended mixes so people can compare themselves. "Higly recommend by QQ members".
The lists should point to each other so that you can easily find both. Verification as upmix needs some rules. Highly recommended could be done e.g. by voting with likes. Wouldn't it be cool to have a dynamic top 100 singles and album list?
I am sure this would make an impression at Apple, with engineers and musicians as thing progresses. Someone needs to remind Apple every now and then of their promise concerning upmixes.
Is it achievable?
As a long term suggestion could we make a list over mixes to avoid? A searchable/sortable list with artist, song title, record label and a link to Apple/Tidal. If we maintained a such a list that are easily accessable through a single URL/link, it would become a reference to audio people. A small warning at the top explaining what an upmix is and why QQ is informing about this. It needs a catchy name that is easy to understand. This is what we promote whenever we can among music and sound interested people on the internet and elsewhere. "Verified as upmix by QQ members".
We should also have a list number two with highly recommended mixes so people can compare themselves. "Higly recommend by QQ members".
The lists should point to each other so that you can easily find both. Verification as upmix needs some rules. Highly recommended could be done e.g. by voting with likes. Wouldn't it be cool to have a dynamic top 100 singles and album list?
I am sure this would make an impression at Apple, with engineers and musicians as thing progresses. Someone needs to remind Apple every now and then of their promise concerning upmixes.
Is it achievable?
The issue with such a list is the fluid nature of streaming. Tracks can be pulled down and/or replaced at anytime without notification.
Hence the link to Apple/Tidal. If it's dead, it might come back. (Apple still at one point in time had the nerve to release it). If it has a new link/id, it can be checked and possibly erased from the list. (And all is forgiven)
A new ‘spatial’ poll would allow that, but the work involved in adding new albums would a horendous. There’s up to 50 new albums per week released and current QQ poll system requires too much manual maintenance.
The ‘Great Fire’. Maybe there are no multitracks…
if that is the case they should hang their heads in shame for not taking better care of their precious assets.meantime, Universal, who's Great Fire it was after all, are producing real Atmos mixes.
True. But it doesn’t impact my basic point.
harync
Senior Member
No Kidding. When I went to the youtube video with Alan Han and George Massenburg, another video was recommended:WTF!!
i bet someone the ilk of George Massenburg would be thoroughly unimpressed with what his former pupil's upto. wow i'm furious!!
Here is a George Massenberg quote from that video: "What the requirement is for immersive mixing is that we get back to doing good mixes, high quality mixes. Not just pressing buttons on plugins, but mixing where you grab a fader. This thing where you use plugins is bullsh**."
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