Dolby Atmos Upmixing on the Streaming Services (Unacceptable!)

[Cheezmo]

Interesting that Coltrane's Giant Steps was removed. Looking at the credits it is the only one of his (the rest are still up) that was Warner. Hmmm...

 

[humprof]

I found a bunch more WEA tracks previously labeled Atmos that are no longer--over and above the ones on @Cheezmo's post from this morning, that is. At least as of this afternoon, when I checked. I won't bother to itemize them just now, though I may follow Cheezmo's lead and post a working master list at some point.

However: here are tracks and albums reported as "fake" that are still labeled Atmos. If you care about this sort of thing and are moved to give any of these another critical listen to confirm or dispute that they are fake, please do. Ditto if you have others to add.

• Badfinger – Love Is Gonna Come At Last
• Ben E. King – Stand By Me
• Billy Idol – The Cage (EP, recent release, not legacy)
• Boz Scaggs – I’m Easy, Loan Me a Dime
• Carly Simon – You’re So Vain (No Secrets version only)
• Caroline Shaw & Attaca Quartet - Evergreen (recent release, not legacy)
• Chaka Khan – Through the Fire (I Feel For You version only)
• Charles Mingus – Reincarnation of a Lovebird (The Clown version only), E’s Flat Ah’s Flat Too (Blues & Roots alt. take/bonus track version only), Moanin’
• Chris Rea – On The Beach (On the Beach and The Very Best Of versions), The Road to Hell, Pt. 2 (The Very Best Of version only)
• Cornership – Brimful of Asha (When I Was Born for the 7th Time Expanded Edition only)
• Curtis Mayfield – Move On Up (Keep On Keeping On and Playlist: The Best Of versions only)
• Donald Byrd – Love Has Come Around (Love Bird version only)
• Dream Theater - Surrounded
• Eddie Harris & Les McCann - Compared to What
• Frankie Valli - Can't Take My Eyes Off You
• Goo Goo Dolls – Slide, Iris
• Love – Alone Again Or, A House Is Not A Motel, The Red Telephone, Maybe the People Would Be, My Little Red Book, 7 and 7 Is, Always See Your Face
• Miles Davis – Tutu (title track only, not the whole album)
• Puff Daddy – I’ll Be Missing You (2014 remastered edition only)
• Ritchie Valens – We Belong Together
• Seals & Crofts - I'll Play For You, Ruby Jean and Billie Lee, King of Nothing, Summer Breeze, We May Never Pass This Way Again (Greatest Hits versions only)
• Steve Reich – Runner, Reich/Richter (recent releases, not legacy)
• The Beau Brummels – Just a Little, Laugh Laugh
• The Drifters - Under the Boardwalk
• The Mamas & The Papas – California Dreamin’ (disputed)
• The Proclaimers – I’m Gonna Be (500 Miles)
• The Rembrandts – I’ll Be There For You (Theme from Friends)
• Third Eye Blind – Semi-Charmed Life (s/t album version only)
• Tom Tom Club – Genius of Love

The Aretha situation is complicated, and it seems to be in flux. Here are tracks previously reported as fake that are still marked Atmos:

• Respect
• Baby I Love You
• You’re All I Need to Get By

And here, meanwhile, are tracks previously reported as real which are no longer marked Atmos(!):

• (You Make Me Feel Like) A Natural Woman
• Chain of Fools
• Sweet Sweet Baby
• Think
• Spanish Harlem
• ["I Never Loved a Man (The Way That I Loved You)" is Atmos on 30 Greatest Hits only, but not in other places.]

Other WEA Atmos mixes that have vanished--although it's disputed whether they were real or fake--include:

• Enya, Shepherd Moons (bonus track ver.), Dark Sky Island, A Day Without Rain, Memory of Trees

(It was pointed out that several other titles on the "vanished" list, above, were in fact on non-WEA labels.) Thoroughly confused? I am. It's possible, of course, that any of the items on any of the above lists were incorrectly identified to begin with. YMMV. So...corrections and disputations welcome. Together maybe we can reach consensus and track what's happening.

 

[LennonCobain]

I found a bunch more WEA tracks previously labeled Atmos that are, no longer--over and above the ones on @Cheezmo's post from this morning, that is. At least as of this afternoon, when I checked. I won't bother to itemize them just now, though I may follow Cheezmo's lead and post a working master list at some point.

However: here are tracks and albums reported as "fake" that are still labeled Atmos. If you care about this sort of thing and are moved to give any of these another critical listen to confirm or dispute that they are fake, please do. Ditto if you have others to add.

• Badfinger – Love Is Gonna Come At Last
• Ben E. King – Stand By Me
• Billy Idol – The Cage (EP, recent release, not legacy)
• Boz Scaggs – I’m Easy, Loan Me a Dime
• Carly Simon – You’re So Vain (No Secrets version only)
• Caroline Shaw & Attaca Quartet - Evergreen (recent release, not legacy)
• Chaka Khan – Through the Fire (I Feel For You version only)
• Charles Mingus – Reincarnation of a Lovebird (The Clown version only), E’s Flat Ah’s Flat Too (Blues & Roots alt. take/bonus track version only), Moanin’
• Chris Rea – On The Beach (On the Beach and The Very Best Of versions), The Road to Hell, Pt. 2 (The Very Best Of version only)
• Cornership – Brimful of Asha (When I Was Born for the 7th Time Expanded Edition only)
• Curtis Mayfield – Move On Up (Keep On Keeping On and Playlist: The Best Of versions only)
• Donald Byrd – Love Has Come Around (Love Bird version only)
• Dream Theater - Surrounded
• Frankie Valli - Can't Take My Eyes Off You
• Goo Goo Dolls – Slide, Iris
• John Mellencamp – Scarecrow (Bonus Track Edition)
• Love – Alone Again Or, A House Is Not A Motel, The Red Telephone, Maybe the People Would Be, My Little Red Book, 7 and 7 Is, Always See Your Face
• Miles Davis – Tutu (title track only, not the whole album)
• Puff Daddy – I’ll Be Missing You (2014 remastered edition only)
• Ritchie Valens – We Belong Together
• Steve Reich – Runner, Reich/Richter (recent releases, not legacy)
• The Beau Brummels – Just a Little, Laugh Laugh
• The Drifters - Under the Boardwalk
• The Mamas & The Papas – California Dreamin’
• The Proclaimers – I’m Gonna Be (500 Miles)
• The Rembrandts – I’ll Be There For You (Theme from Friends)
• Third Eye Blind – Semi-Charmed Life (s/t album version only)
• Tom Tom Club – Genius of Love

The Aretha situation is complicated, and it seems to be in flux. Here are tracks previously reported as fake that are still marked Atmos:

• Respect
• Baby I Love You
• You’re All I Need to Get By

And here, meanwhile, are tracks previously reported as real which are no longer marked Atmos(!):

• (You Make Me Feel Like) A Natural Woman
• Chain of Fools
• Sweet Sweet Baby
• Think
• Spanish Harlem
• ["I Never Loved a Man (The Way That I Loved You)" is Atmos on 30 Greatest Hits only, but not in other places.]

Other "real" WEA Atmos mixes that have vanished--some of which were reported earlier:

• Bryan Adams, Reckless (30th Anniversary Ed.)
• CHVRCHES, Screen Violence
• Enya, Shepherd Moons (bonus track ver.), Dark Sky Island, A Day Without Rain, Memory of Trees
• Florence + The Machine, Dance Fever
• Sting, The Dream of the Blue Turtles

Thoroughly confused? I am. It's possible, of course, that any of the items on any of the above lists were incorrectly identified to begin with. YMMV. So...corrections and disputations welcome. Together maybe we can reach consensus and track what's happening.

I don’t think that Bryan Adams, John Mellencamp, and Sting’s albums fall under the WEA umbrella, but rather UMG (which has been putting out real Atmos mixes).

As for The Mamas & The Papas - California Dreamin’: this isn’t an upmix IIRC, it just is an unusual mix.

 

[humprof]

I don’t think that Bryan Adams, John Mellencamp, and Sting’s albums fall under the WEA umbrella, but rather UMG (which has been putting out real Atmos mixes).

As for The Mamas & The Papas - California Dreamin’: this isn’t an upmix IIRC, it just is an unusual mix.

Thanks for that. You're right: Adams and Sting were on A&M, so those ones definitely never belonged here. Mellencamp is trickier: Wikipedia says Riva was distributed by WEA everywhere except the US, where it was PolyGram--which ended up with UMG, so they're probably who's behind the reissue? I've edited my last post accordingly.

I'll listen to California Dreamin' again!

 

[humprof]

In spite of the purge, it seems there was still stuff in the pipeline. Case in point: "Compared to What" by Eddie Harris & Les McCann. Great to have an excuse for a fresh listen, though. Got-damn!

 

[ClassicalSurroundFan]

Interesting that the Chvrches album got pulled as that was one of the first "big new release" albums at the launch of "Spatial Audio" iirc

AURORA The Gods We Can Touch is in the same category. She is on Glassnote/Decca along with Chvrches. Atmos mix disappeared for the US market only about a month ago, confirmed it is still available on Apple Music internationally.

 

[olgitnorm]

I don’t think that Bryan Adams, John Mellencamp, and Sting’s albums fall under the WEA umbrella, but rather UMG (which has been putting out real Atmos mixes).

As for The Mamas & The Papas - California Dreamin’: this isn’t an upmix IIRC, it just is an unusual mix.

 

[MrSmithers]

I found a bunch more WEA tracks previously labeled Atmos that are no longer--over and above the ones on @Cheezmo's post from this morning, that is. At least as of this afternoon, when I checked. I won't bother to itemize them just now, though I may follow Cheezmo's lead and post a working master list at some point.

However: here are tracks and albums reported as "fake" that are still labeled Atmos. If you care about this sort of thing and are moved to give any of these another critical listen to confirm or dispute that they are fake, please do. Ditto if you have others to add.

• Badfinger – Love Is Gonna Come At Last
• Ben E. King – Stand By Me
• Billy Idol – The Cage (EP, recent release, not legacy)
• Boz Scaggs – I’m Easy, Loan Me a Dime
• Carly Simon – You’re So Vain (No Secrets version only)
• Caroline Shaw & Attaca Quartet - Evergreen (recent release, not legacy)
• Chaka Khan – Through the Fire (I Feel For You version only)
• Charles Mingus – Reincarnation of a Lovebird (The Clown version only), E’s Flat Ah’s Flat Too (Blues & Roots alt. take/bonus track version only), Moanin’
• Chris Rea – On The Beach (On the Beach and The Very Best Of versions), The Road to Hell, Pt. 2 (The Very Best Of version only)
• Cornership – Brimful of Asha (When I Was Born for the 7th Time Expanded Edition only)
• Curtis Mayfield – Move On Up (Keep On Keeping On and Playlist: The Best Of versions only)
• Donald Byrd – Love Has Come Around (Love Bird version only)
• Dream Theater - Surrounded
• Eddie Harris & Les McCann - Compared to What
• Frankie Valli - Can't Take My Eyes Off You
• Goo Goo Dolls – Slide, Iris
• Love – Alone Again Or, A House Is Not A Motel, The Red Telephone, Maybe the People Would Be, My Little Red Book, 7 and 7 Is, Always See Your Face
• Miles Davis – Tutu (title track only, not the whole album)
• Puff Daddy – I’ll Be Missing You (2014 remastered edition only)
• Ritchie Valens – We Belong Together
• Steve Reich – Runner, Reich/Richter (recent releases, not legacy)
• The Beau Brummels – Just a Little, Laugh Laugh
• The Drifters - Under the Boardwalk
• The Mamas & The Papas – California Dreamin’ (disputed)
• The Proclaimers – I’m Gonna Be (500 Miles)
• The Rembrandts – I’ll Be There For You (Theme from Friends)
• Third Eye Blind – Semi-Charmed Life (s/t album version only)
• Tom Tom Club – Genius of Love

The Aretha situation is complicated, and it seems to be in flux. Here are tracks previously reported as fake that are still marked Atmos:

• Respect
• Baby I Love You
• You’re All I Need to Get By

And here, meanwhile, are tracks previously reported as real which are no longer marked Atmos(!):

• (You Make Me Feel Like) A Natural Woman
• Chain of Fools
• Sweet Sweet Baby
• Think
• Spanish Harlem
• ["I Never Loved a Man (The Way That I Loved You)" is Atmos on 30 Greatest Hits only, but not in other places.]

Other "real" WEA Atmos mixes that have vanished--some of which were reported earlier:

• CHVRCHES, Screen Violence
• Enya, Shepherd Moons (bonus track ver.), Dark Sky Island, A Day Without Rain, Memory of Trees
• Florence + The Machine, Dance Fever

Thoroughly confused? I am. It's possible, of course, that any of the items on any of the above lists were incorrectly identified to begin with. YMMV. So...corrections and disputations welcome. Together maybe we can reach consensus and track what's happening.

I still see CHVCHES as being in Atmos in the UK and it's also an EMI/Virgin (UMG) title I think? Might just be down to the wonkiness of how Apple Music lists things that it's not showing in Atmos for some? Florence + The Machine has gone missing weirdly, but I think it's also UMG ultimately. The Enya titles all sounded fake to me, but I know multiple people were reviewing saying they were real. Hopefully they could be replaced with something half decent one day?

Everything above I'm sure is fake unfortunately...

As much as I'd like to think that Apple Music is taking a decisive step to stop fake upmixes, I'll be more convinced when they all go and start to come off Tidal too. It really needs to come from the Warner Music side, if they are even aware of what is happening? The fact that there are still fakes being released as of the last few weeks isn't encouraging. I noticed Jesus And The Mary Chain - Just Like Honey was uploaded to Tidal last week. I've not been able to authenticate if it's real Atmos as I can't find it on Apple Music, but I'd have a bet it's probably fake...

 

[Cheezmo]

As much as I'd like to think that Apple Music is taking a decisive step to stop fake upmixes, I'll be more convinced when they all go and start to come off Tidal too.

Does Tidal have the same policy against upmixes? If they don't then the fact that things are coming off of Apple but staying on Tidal is a pretty good indication that it is Apple taking steps.

 

[MrSmithers]

Does Tidal have the same policy against upmixes? If they don't then the fact that things are coming off of Apple but staying on Tidal is a pretty good indication that it is Apple taking steps.

I'm not sure to be honest? They do list a description for "What is Dolby Atmos Music?" which is quite contradictory to the fakes.

"Dolby Atmos Music is an immersive audio experience. Dolby Atmos Music allows sounds to be precisely placed, adding dimensionality to create a full audio atmosphere.

Dolby Atmos Music allows people to connect with their favorite music in a whole new way, pulling them into a song and revealing what was lost with stereo recordings."

The last point is pretty funny seeing it's the exact same stereo recordings being used!

 

[jamesc]

I still see CHVCHES as being in Atmos in the UK and it's also an EMI/Virgin (UMG) title I think? Might just be down to the wonkiness of how Apple Music lists things that it's not showing in Atmos for some? Florence + The Machine has gone missing weirdly, but I think it's also UMG ultimately. The Enya titles all sounded fake to me, but I know multiple people were reviewing saying they were real. Hopefully they could be replaced with something half decent one day?

Everything above I'm sure is fake unfortunately...

As much as I'd like to think that Apple Music is taking a decisive step to stop fake upmixes, I'll be more convinced when they all go and start to come off Tidal too. It really needs to come from the Warner Music side, if they are even aware of what is happening? The fact that there are still fakes being released as of the last few weeks isn't encouraging. I noticed Jesus And The Mary Chain - Just Like Honey was uploaded to Tidal last week. I've not been able to authenticate if it's real Atmos as I can't find it on Apple Music, but I'd have a bet it's probably fake...

I checked out the Jesus and Mary Chain track last week and it sounded fake to me. Kind of from that same genre and time period as the fake mixes that were released by New Order, The Smiths and Echo & The Bunnymen so I wasn't expecting any different. So disappointing!

 

[humprof]

I still see CHVCHES as being in Atmos in the UK and it's also an EMI/Virgin (UMG) title I think? Might just be down to the wonkiness of how Apple Music lists things that it's not showing in Atmos for some? Florence + The Machine has gone missing weirdly, but I think it's also UMG ultimately. The Enya titles all sounded fake to me, but I know multiple people were reviewing saying they were real. Hopefully they could be replaced with something half decent one day?

Everything above I'm sure is fake unfortunately...

As much as I'd like to think that Apple Music is taking a decisive step to stop fake upmixes, I'll be more convinced when they all go and start to come off Tidal too. It really needs to come from the Warner Music side, if they are even aware of what is happening? The fact that there are still fakes being released as of the last few weeks isn't encouraging. I noticed Jesus And The Mary Chain - Just Like Honey was uploaded to Tidal last week. I've not been able to authenticate if it's real Atmos as I can't find it on Apple Music, but I'd have a bet it's probably fake...

Thanks, @MrSmithers. Edited accordingly.

 

[pat bateman]

Does Tidal have the same policy against upmixes? If they don't then the fact that things are coming off of Apple but staying on Tidal is a pretty good indication that it is Apple taking steps.

I only know enough to be dangerous, but Tidal’s MQA thing appears to be a little bit of a scam, or best case, they are inept at serving the correct MQA file. There’s a couple very long YouTube videos out there proving it. So that being said, ineptitude or malicious intent, I don’t think Tidal will care.

 

[popshop]

Judee Sill and Love songs are back to stereo.

 

[humprof]

Judee Sill and Love songs are back to stereo.

So according to my rough-and-ready unscientific survey, here are songs (and albums) previously reported as "fake" that still haven't been reported as retracted. If anyone has further updates, though, I'd be happy to amend the list. It's already much shorter than it was at its peak!

Badfinger – Love Is Gonna Come At Last
Ben E. King – Stand By Me, others…
Billy Idol – The Cage (EP)
Boz Scaggs – I’m Easy, Loan Me a Dime
Carly Simon – You’re So Vain (No Secrets version only)
Caroline Shaw & Attaca Quartet - Evergreen
Chaka Khan – Through the Fire (I Feel For You version only)
Charles Mingus, Reincarnation of a Lovebird (The Clown version only), E’s Flat Ah’s Flat Too (Blues & Roots alt. take/bonus track version only), Moanin’
Chris Rea – On The Beach (On the Beach and The Very Best Of versions), The Road to Hell, Pt. 2 (The Very Best Of version only)
Cornership – Brimful of Asha (When I Was Born for the 7th Time Expanded Ed. only)
Curtis Mayfield, Move On Up (Keep On Keeping On and Playlist: The Best Of versions only)
Donald Byrd – Love Has Come Around (Love Bird version only)
Frankie Valli - Can't Take My Eyes Off You
Goo Goo Dolls – Slide, Iris
Lake Street Dive - Side Pony, Free Yourself Up (?)
Miles Davis – Tutu (album title track only)
Puff Daddy – I’ll Be Missing You (2014 remastered edition only)
Ritchie Valens – We Belong Together
Seals & Crofts – I’ll Play For You, Ruby Jean and Billie Lee, King of Nothing, Summer Breeze, We May Never Pass This Way Again (Greatest Hits versions only)
Steve Reich – Runner, Reich/Richter
The Beau Brummels – Just a Little, Laugh Laugh
The Drifters - Under the Boardwalk
The Mamas & The Papas – California Dreamin’
The Proclaimers – I’m Gonna Be (500 Miles)
The Rembrandts – I’ll Be There For You (Theme from Friends)
Third Eye Blind – Semi-Charmed Life (s/t album version only)
Tom Tom Club – Genius of Love

 

[pat bateman]

I got excited when I found Foo Fighters in 360RA. Its all fake. They have 2 albums and many of their popular singles. It's so badly fake, they didn't even bother to add reverb or anything. Just simply copy/paste the L/R to Surround L/R, made the center channel a mono version of L/R and lowered the volume, and then copy/paste the front L/R to surround back channels and lowered the volume. (360RA is a 7.1 bed).

 

[fredblue]

I got excited when I found Foo Fighters in 360RA. Its all fake. They have 2 albums and many of their popular singles. It's so badly fake, they didn't even bother to add reverb or anything. Just simply copy/paste the L/R to Surround L/R, made the center channel a mono version of L/R and lowered the volume, and then copy/paste the front L/R to surround back channels and lowered the volume. (360RA is a 7.1 bed).

wtf!? these are from Sony, right? better keep an eye on this...

 

[heavensolid98]

@humprof Mr. Han is back! However, this time he is Alan JS Han! (alanjshan).
Also he posted these, which I believe are real - and you like.
The plot thickens.

I looked him up and most of his mixes are in no way related to fake mixes [in my 7.1.4 room via Apple Music]. Although I did not hear any discrete channel arrangement from his mixes, if way of judging one mix is fake or not is based on whether mix has discrete channel mix, I would say 85% of mixes on Apple Music are fake. Even new Michael Jackson that Serban Ghena did has vocal all over the speakers and Rears only having reverbs [without any sound in Center channel!!!] A-Ha [Take on Me] to me is a great discrete channel mix that utilizes all the speakers. For some reason few people in the forum are trying to bring him down without any solid evidence but have you actually listened to the mixes in a room? they sound very immersive in a room.
I went to his Instagram page and learned that he did one of my Favorite Starship Mix, that mix is still not 100% discrete but you can clearly hear the separate guitar tracks and drums tracks and delays and reverbs. I am not hiphop person but even his hip hop tracks he listed are quite good, [Wake up in the sky] track that Bruno Mars is on only stats with ceiling speakers which is style of the mix I've never heard until today. Well I sound like I am his lawyer but if you actually listen to the mixes you hate, they might not be your style but they are no way fake mixes and believe me I encountered so many fake mixes that drives me nuts

 

[fredblue]

I looked him up and most of his mixes are in no way related to fake mixes [in my 7.1.4 room via Apple Music]. Although I did not hear any discrete channel arrangement from his mixes, if way of judging one mix is fake or not is based on whether mix has discrete channel mix, I would say 85% of mixes on Apple Music are fake. Even new Michael Jackson that Serban Ghena did has vocal all over the speakers and Rears only having reverbs [without any sound in Center channel!!!] A-Ha [Take on Me] to me is a great discrete channel mix that utilizes all the speakers. For some reason few people in the forum are trying to bring him down without any solid evidence but have you actually listened to the mixes in a room? they sound very immersive in a room.
I went to his Instagram page and learned that he did one of my Favorite Starship Mix, that mix is still not 100% discrete but you can clearly hear the separate guitar tracks and drums tracks and delays and reverbs. I am not hiphop person but even his hip hop tracks he listed are quite good, [Wake up in the sky] track that Bruno Mars is on only stats with ceiling speakers which is style of the mix I've never heard until today. Well I sound like I am his lawyer but if you actually listen to the mixes you hate, they might not be your style but they are no way fake mixes and believe me I encountered so many fake mixes that drives me nuts

fwiw i recently learned the (imho, pretty underwhelming) Atmos/360RA mixes of "Thriller" were by John Hanes, while Serban Ghenea did the new Stereo mixes.

 

[heavensolid98]

fwiw i recently learned the (imho, pretty underwhelming) Atmos/360RA mixes of "Thriller" were by John Hanes, while Serban Ghenea did the new Stereo mixes.

Based on what I've heard by listening, I believe original mix stays as original. In fact, no one should touch the original mix because that will be crime against this world
I believe the duo was given a multitrack to start the immersive mix, Serban mixed original tape transfer into immersive ready stems then John Hanes took the Stems and did the immersive mixes. I do not believe there is 'new' stereo mixes but correct me if I am mistaken.