ELP Fanfare Box Set (With 5.1 Surround Mixes on Blu-Ray) Coming Soon!

[~dave~~wave~]

I wonder how Abaddon's Bolero got bounced to the extra tracks on the Trilogy album. Surely someone must have picked that error up!

They must not have used any of the usual suspects from this forum as beta-testers.
The alternate version of From The Beginning that follows it is also 5.1.

Some other observations on the blu-ray authoring:

• On Tarkus, "Oh, My Father" is tacked on as the final track (in 5.1)
  As previously noted, Unknown Ballad and an alternate take of Mass are bonus stereo tracks
• As indicated on the sleeve back, ELP and Tarkus are 24/48, Trilogy and BSS are 24/96

 

[jimfisheye]

really, the 5.1 mix of the 3rd Impression sounds good to you?

Maybe it's kind of interesting to hear the bass part elevated in your face to focus on it? I don't know...

Such a clear obvious mistake. More of an unfinished kind of "mistake" though. The bass was obviously double sent to an instrument bus it wasn't intended to be on the mixing board for this track. The Lfe content is also duplicated in the front L,R pair by mistake. Everything about this mix screams "unfinished". This isn't just a crude intern done mix like you hear on many circa 2000's DVDA discs. It sounds like it was aiming to be the real thing but either it was delivered unfinished and further with the Lfe mistake and the glaring bass doubled up bit for this track or an unfinished mix was delivered by mistake.

That they're just repackaging the current releases for this set with a couple live offerings of dubious quality suggests this is more of a 'collect it for the album cover' collectors item than anything else. (The unreleased live content is all lossy and/or SD at best as well.)

I thought after hearing that flawed BSS mix that this was surely the reason it went out of print so quickly and why the single DVDA version omitted it. (The other explanation would have been the greedy one. Only release it with the expansive set.) Now I'm back to the greedy explanation if they're throwing this embarrassment in this new set. Turns out that that hype-y early 2000's remix is better even with all the cheapness in its fidelity.

Having the SW remix of Tarkus and the partial remix of ELP is pretty awesome. The MFSL vinyl for the stereo mixes of Pictures, Tarkus, Trilogy are great sounding copies of the original mixes. The original quad of Welcome as delivered is unfortunate but what do you do.

Hard to believe they've only released the stereo originals in HD for BSS & Trilogy. Any serious edition here needs the stereo originals for everything else first and foremost. Then lets get SW back in the picture for a remix of Pictures and then all the rest.

This flawed BSS mix and the Trillogy remix make me really question My Jakszyk. But then there's the Thrak remix. And again the elements of both BSS and Trilogy that sound ambitious to a high level. Did someone more concerned with calendar dates than art force delivery on unfinished mixes or something? Easy to assume Thrak was more Fripp than Jakszyk but again some of the elements in these flawed/unfinished mixes seem more like he wasn't allowed to finish them. And the unfinished state of BSS had a couple really unfortunate mistakes.

 

[ssully]

That they're just repackaging the current releases for this set with a couple live offerings of dubious quality suggests this is more of a 'collect it for the album cover' collectors item than anything else. (The unreleased live content is all lossy and/or SD at best as well.)

Much worse yet, the unreleased live content is offered on *vinyl*., with the built-in , and *audible*, distortion that vinyl pressing and playback entails.

I thought after hearing that flawed BSS mix that this was surely the reason it went out of print so quickly and why the single DVDA version omitted it. (The other explanation would have been the greedy one. Only release it with the expansive set.) Now I'm back to the greedy explanation if they're throwing this embarrassment in this new set. Turns out that that hype-y early 2000's remix is better even with all the cheapness in its fidelity.

The 2000 surround remix -- in 'hi rez' LPCM, and Dolby Digital - isn't 'cheap in its fidelity'.

Having the SW remix of Tarkus and the partial remix of ELP is pretty awesome. The MFSL vinyl for the stereo mixes of Pictures, Tarkus, Trilogy are great sounding copies of the original mixes. The original quad of Welcome as delivered is unfortunate but what do you do.

Are you presenting these as best-available of their kind for ELP fans? Because of course these aren't all in the boxed set

 

[kap'n krunch]

ummmmm..IIRC Tarkus, Trilogy and BSS were ALL 96/24...DOWNSAMPLING for a BD???? This is starting to piss me off....

 

[kap'n krunch]

Much worse yet, the unreleased live content is offered on *vinyl*., with the built-in , and *audible*, distortion that vinyl pressing and playback entails.





The 2000 surround remix -- in 'hi rez' LPCM, and Dolby Digital - isn't 'cheap in its fidelity'.




Are you presenting these as best-available of their kind for ELP fans? Because of course these aren't all in the boxed set

Always great to see your diatribes..now, go take your meds like a good boy, OK?

 

[jimfisheye]

I guess that comment was a little ambiguous, sorry. No everyone, this box set does NOT include MFSL vinyl pressings for those albums! (right...)
They are in fact the best available copies for fans and of course long out of print. Please don't go running out to buy it based on that and then show up at my place with pitchforks!

I stand by the cheapness comment on the 2000 BSS 5.1 remix. That level of compression, hype, and freeze dried sound is cheapness to me. Sure there are elements of high fidelity and it's HD and all. And it's a pretty decent mix overall. It really is. I like it. But it still sounds sounds cheap next to the original stereo mix.

Yeah, a lossy vinyl copy for one of the previously unreleased live items. (Yes, "lossy" is usually used to describe generation loss from lossy digital compression. Substitute a different term for the generation loss copy you are being treated to here if you wish.) It makes this more of as pure collectors item like a picture disc or colored vinyl at any rate rather than something you buy to listen to.

I know "diatribes" wasn't aimed at me but I think it's fair to make comments like this. The set features HD audio delivery formats usually associated with full studio master quality being used here for substandard copies. So I think it's fair to describe this set as more of a collectors item to look at on a shelf than for the music content.


I am curious what the heck happened with the Jakszyk remixes though. These are clearly ambitious in intent. There's stuff dialed up (or at least started) that goes way beyond the crude studio intern 5.1 mixes we've heard. And they're just so obviously left in an unfinished state. There's a war story in here somewhere.

 

[timbre4]

Let's please ease up on any personal attacks NOW.


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[EMB]

Always great to see your diatribes..now, go take your meds like a good boy, OK?

If anything, your statement is the diatribe and some might feel it over the line of civility on this board. One more like this and I feel the mod in me coming out, which is rare--but whatever needs to be done, will be done. A promise and not a threat, FWIW.

As a matter of fact, I agree with what Sully said for two of his comments. For the one about vinyl playback: the inherent drawbacks tend to bother audiophiles who prefer digital audio and tend to disdain vinyl's inherent limitations as a given. I grew up with vinyl, from a $20 record player to the slightly superior sound system I now employ (heh). I'm not much bothered by those limitations most of the time, but with anything newly pressed, I've found remasterings to be highly variable in quality, let alone the noise, flutter, wow, compression and other little things that can go wrong with music on vinyl from mastering to cutting to the pressing itself. Yet I love it at its best, and even when it's not so great. But if I want optimum sound for someone like ELP, naturally I'd go to the format most likely to offer overall superior sonics, and for a lot of modern titles--new music, or vintage--vinyl is not the way to go, IMO.

On the other point, whatever mixing flaws, drawbacks or omissions with the 2000 ELP DVD-A, my younger brother--more of an ELP fan than I'll ever be--loved it, though he pointed out a handful of oddities after listening that I hadn't noticed (wish I could remember what some of them were, though 3rd Imp was one he did notice).

I wonder how Abaddon's Bolero got bounced to the extra tracks on the Trilogy album. Surely someone must have picked that error up!

Yes...WE DID!! :howl But there may be a reason for where it is NOW as opposed to then, but if so, I don't remember reading an explanation as to why, whereas, with the RUMOURS DVD-A, I think it was explained why "Silver Springs" displaced "Songbird" (though I think it would have been better to leave the latter where it was and, say, just add the former as the next track, which is how I prefer hearing it).

ED

 

[timbre4]

Sadly, Neil's team had absolutely nothing to do with this release which would have mitigated at lease a few problems.


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[rtbluray]

I decided to email this message to [email protected] (email address for BMG on the back of the box set):

Hello.

I am requesting that a replacement Blu-ray Disc be authored and sent out to everyone who purchased the ELP “Fanfare” box set, including myself.
The Blu-Ray has “Abaddon’s Bolero” incorrectly grouped in under the “Trilogy” bonus tracks, whereas it should be included as part of the main album playlist.

Thanks

Normally I can let mistakes like that by but not when I am paying this much money for a set.
Also, I could have brought up the "Karn Evil 9 3rd Impression" bass issue, but if they cannot get the track listing and playlists right, then there is no hope for a resolution to that issue...

Other than that, I have no issues with the Blu-Ray in this set. It is well authored and well designed.

 

[rtbluray]

ummmmm..IIRC Tarkus, Trilogy and BSS were ALL 96/24...DOWNSAMPLING for a BD???? This is starting to piss me off....

There is no down-sampling present on this Blu-Ray.
The multi-tracks for both "Emerson, Lake & Palmer" and "Tarkus" were transferred to digital at 48 kHz 24 bit, and Steven Wilson's finished remixes are the same.
What's on the Blu-Ray is the same resolution as the CD/DVDA-V releases.

 

[~dave~~wave~]

Such a clear obvious mistake...

I appreciate your analysis and succinct summary of your conclusions.

I'm not looking for a debate, but honestly prefer the mix on the blu-ray after A/B-ing back and forth with the 2014 stereo remaster on the redbook CD.
It's incredible to me the near-unanimous agreement there's no chance it could be a valid artistic / creative surround mixing choice.

If it was an "accident," it was for me of the fortunate, not disastrous variety.
Is it possible if the bass guitar was unintentionally patched to all five channels, the engineer / artist liked the result and decided to keep it?

(Had this been "corrected" on this release, I might be petitioning to have it included as a bonus track.)

Maybe it's kind of interesting to hear the bass part elevated in your face to focus on it?

Very perceptive.
As an ex-bassist of small talent, but great enthusiasm, I resemble that remark. :sun

I'm the kid on the right, February 1970.
My two good friends in that band have been jamming with Hendrix and waiting for me and Tom Petty to show up for good number of years now.


Different strokes for different folks, thanks for the passion and mutual respect. :brew

 

[jimfisheye]

I appreciate your analysis and succinct summary of your conclusions.

I'm not looking for a debate, but honestly prefer the mix on the blu-ray after A/B-ing back and forth with the 2014 stereo remaster on the redbook CD.
It's incredible to me the near-unanimous agreement there's no chance it could be a valid artistic / creative surround mixing choice.

If it was an "accident," it was for me of the fortunate, not disastrous variety.
Is it possible if the bass guitar was unintentionally patched to all five channels, the engineer / artist liked the result and decided to keep it?

(Had this been "corrected" on this release, I might be petitioning to have it included as a bonus track.)




Very perceptive.
As an ex-bassist of small talent, but great enthusiasm, I resemble that remark. :sun

I'm the kid on the right, February 1970.
My two good friends in that band have been jamming with Hendrix and waiting for me and Tom Petty to show up for good number of years now.


Different strokes for different folks, thanks for the passion and mutual respect. :brew

Yeah cool, I didn't mean to suggest liking it was wrong either. If it sounds right it is right and all. The analytical part comes in with making an accurate copy of the thing that sounded right. I might have found that part cool sounding at first myself. I have an interest in hearing an album as the artist intended to present it and with that in mind, that bit was a mistake. I'm not sure how many paragraphs I'd have to write to describe all the angles of why I know it was unintentional so you'll have to take that however you will. (That in no way means I'll respect a 'natural' presentation of every album mind you. I've fiendishly remastered a few things before I had no business with.)

I thought of this again when it came up because of how odd the scenario strikes me. Crude cheap mixes are crude and cheap and don't have subtle elements and evidence of lots of ambitious work but then just one thing off. There's a really high level of excellence in the mix but then a couple really glaring "mechanical" mistakes. Trilogy doesn't have anything like the bass anomalies but it has an odd presentation with the lead vocal and some of the vocal reverb scrunched up in front and smaller than everything else. These imperfections don't add up to the rest of the work in either of these. Someone has a war story about this.

Talk about a missed opportunity for corrections with the new set too!

 

[~dave~~wave~]

Can you tell us about the sound quality of the new & unreleased live CDs when you get a chance?

The July 1997 Montmartre Paris is thrilling to me for a stereo concert recording.
Mostly an excellent close-mic'd soundboard mix with just the right subtle amount of audience and hall ambience.

Seems to have plenty of headroom and very "crankable."
One could set surround/sub into one's preferred configuration to make a stereo source sound like a live show and get good results, I believe.

There's a wide sound field across the front.
What more could you ask for as far as "discreteness" in a live rock power trio album?

This is the latest of the box set live dates.
Special to me also as I saw ELP live the first and only time less than a year earlier (shared bill with Jethro Tull).
Then and on this CD they were in fine form for a band 25 years past their salad days playing complex, physically challenging prog.
We had great seats in the first ten rows.
They all seemed in great shape, other than Greg's black leather vest fit a few kilos too snug.

Amazing, the huge sound a trio could generate live. (Surely inspired Rush.)
In the wake of Keith's passing last year, it's poignant to read in the book that just after the 1993 tour was the start of the weakness in his fingers that required surgery and plagued him the rest of his life.

The 77-minute set list is an ambitious "career- spanning" retrospective.
I imagine I hear Keith getting a bit fatigued on a ridiculously fast-tempo Hammond-drum duel.
But his grand piano technique is impressive, and the stamina required of the band to deliver these shows is the stuff of their legend.

 

[~dave~~wave~]

A look back at the first page of this thread:

• I wish it were something I didn't already have.
• £150 for what is essentially 1 Blu Ray to much for me
• This is just another cash grab
• Too much of too little interest on this one...
• Such a waste.....it's just a money grab release.
• one less big expensive box to use up my storage space and money
• I will definitely pass on this one
• Big ELP fan but......Pass

Finally, last post on the page...
after two dozen posts of equivocation and pooh-poohing...

For the win! :brew

Order placed...

Don't care , but, to an ELP fan like me, the price is quite good for all the goodies it has...and having the 5.1 mixes in BLURAY- heck yes...

Then, today, the dreaded…

BUYER’S REMORSE!

Got the ELP box yesterday....

disappointed in many ways...for all the money spent at least the CDs SHOULD be in a digipak with the original artwork...they aren't....it¡s nice having the MCH mixes on BD, though....but I think I've been gipped out big time!

At least the OTHER ELP PledgeMusic project - their last three LPs was much better quality and value for your buck...

Bottom line...

NOT WORTH IT!!!!!

You guys beat everything, you know that?

 

[kap'n krunch]

I must say that this is the ONLY box set that has disappointed me....and I have a LOT of Box Sets!!!
I ordered it because of the previous one, the one with both "Works" and "Love Beach"...it's excellent quality vinyl, great transfer and the artwork is not "nth generation"...

might as well quote Fiona...

"...oh well..."

 

[~dave~~wave~]

Let the record show I'm delighted with my purchase.

The four albums on a single blu-ray alone justified the price to me, since the DVD-As are OOP and expensive.
My deck couldn't play them at full resolution if I did try to get them.
I appreciate coffee table books as well.

I may take the sealed vinyl down to the used record store and see they'll offer me.

 

[GOS]

Let the record show I'm delighted with my purchase.

The four albums on a single blu-ray alone justified the price to me, since the DVD-As are OOP and expensive.
My deck couldn't play them at full resolution if I did try to get them.
I appreciate coffee table books as well.

I may take the sealed vinyl down to the used record store and see they'll offer me.

I was seriously tempted to buy this, but I guess it might be a stretch since I own all the older surround releases. It's not as if I don't have a lot of other IRONS in the fire waiting to be paid for...

 

[kap'n krunch]

Well I must say that
-I've NEVER listened to the "In the Hot Seat" album, and , as for the rest of releases , I got them either on DVDA and / Or BD /LP (Black Moon , only on CD froom back in the day)...I'm looking forward to the Rome recordings on LP...(and while I'm at it, I think ELPowell was not only a "blip" in the radar, IT WAS F*CKIN' AWESOME-SAW THEM ON THAT TOUR AND THEY WERE WAYYYY MORE POWERFUL THAN WITH CARL (Sorry , Carl!), but, that having been said, they could have released a BD with the STEREO Masters of their catalogue too....

So yeah
it's a toss up...

"I could've fought better Howard...!"

 

[MCDave]

If anyone's disappointed enough to opt for the 2000 DVD-A of BSS, there's one for sale in the Swap Meet forum.