Elton John "Goodbye Yellow Brick Road" HFPA Blu-Ray Release

[fredblue]

Thank you for sharing your initial impressions blue.monk Glad to hear you're enjoying it so far

have you noticed the rears yet? (or rather not noticed them!) do they seem better integrated to you? how are you finding brightness levels on the surround?

haha! its not sacrilege to enjoy the new Social Disease! the whole 5.1's a remix after all with lots of other differences from the stereo we've all heard a gazillion times, so it kinda feels almost appropriate that its so wildly unfaithful to the original, I reckon!

You raise a very interesting question!

This is one of the things that perplexes me a bit.. we hear about flat transfers and how desirable they are to some folk.. and I just feel there's certain records you maybe don't want to hear the tapes without a bit of mastering magic on them (?)

..after all so many people love Steve Hoffman's mastering and even though he seems to be a less is more kinda guy, he does work on the tapes and the results tend to go down well.

I know from fandom Gus used to love to "go into the red" and get everything as big and bright and brash and bold (and all the other B's!) as possible in the recording process.. and maybe that's why the original DJM LPs and 80's DJM CDs of Elton's 70's albums are such firm favourites as they've had great mastering on them rather than sounding just like the original master tapes?

Just food for thought...

 

[Perp]

I'm all for remixes because they are, simply put, flat out fun. Though, I believe they should include the original mix too. After all, these are new formats that they keep upgrading on and I'd rather listen to it on that current format without having to dig out an old inferior copy.

 

[blue.monk]

Hey fredblue! Thanks for posting your praise of the stereo layer. That's what ultimately sold me on the Blu-Ray. Sounds great! I'll have to get back to you on your 5.1 questions after some more listening.

I agree that the 'flat transfer vs mastering' argument all depends on the source material and the engineer. I'm always intrigued to hear a flat transfer but believe many master tapes can be improved in the hands of a good engineer (primarily through tasteful and subtle EQ choices).

BTW the download code with the Blu-Ray is mistakenly for George Michael - Symphonica!

 

[fredblue]

Oh no! Unbelievable balls up on the HFPA download code!! Quite why anybody would want the Symphonica badly up-Rez'd download I don't know! someone on Facebook just posted waveforms & analysis of the Symphonica HFPA and reckons its upsampled from the 44.1/16..! :yikes

.. which confirms my findings just by listening. there's some horrid sibilance or a kind of extreme overemphasis on "S" sounds (the -esses need de-essing!) which I did wonder might be resultant artifacts of uprezzing or just a lousy lead vox mic capture? I'm not tecchy (as you can tell!) but I know what I hear and on that HFPA I heard some pretty suspicious sounding dodgy goings on which have now seemingly been proven to be correct! Sad but true

 

[davie]

I have all the EJ SACD's that were released, all of which are among my most prized recordings....with the exception of Goodbye Yellow Brick Road. I have the 2 disc SACD and it is really uncomfortably bright for my ears. Not sure why it is different from the others. One reason may be that a third party got involved in the surround mastering process, apparently one Chris Bellman at Bernie Grundman Mastering, that is if the credits are to be believed. So if the new release has the same surround mix with the same mastering then I have no real reason to want another copy of it in a new format.

 

[cupboy]

I had to put on the SHM SACD to check out the thinness and harshness but it sounds amazing to me. The dynamic range is unlimited. Skip forward to All The Girls Love Alice if you want to be totally stunned. I may get the Blu-ray at some point, for the surround version. Should have snagged it for $18.99 a few weeks ago when I had the chance. Price has gone up.

 

[Perp]

So if the new release has the same surround mix with the same mastering then I have no real reason to want another copy of it in a new format.

Other than having to get up and change SACD discs to finish listening to the album. This is why I purchased the BD that is on it's way and will have no regrets.

 

[fredblue]

I had to put on the SHM SACD to check out the thinness and harshness but it sounds amazing to me. The dynamic range is unlimited. Skip forward to All The Girls Love Alice if you want to be totally stunned. I may get the Blu-ray at some point, for the surround version. Should have snagged it for $18.99 a few weeks ago when I had the chance. Price has gone up.

V.Interesting thanks, great to hear your thoughts I've only had the SHM-SACD for a matter of weeks and only listened to it once since I got it.

I liked what I heard, I wasn't instantly wowed by it but I had just gone thru a marathon 6-way comparison of the album so perhaps a bit of overexposure to it in a short space of time had kicked in!?

The SHM-SACD struck me as sounding unlike other versions of the album I'd played in the weeks leading up to getting it (2003 Stereo Hybrid SACDs, Gus Dudgeon's 1995 Remaster, 2014 CD, 2014 BD-A in Stereo, DJM CDs, MFSL CD) but haven't got around to comparing them all to the SHM-SACD yet but I look forward to it the next time I have a whole day of the main system to myself (which is what it took to do a 6-way.. so goodness knows how long I'll need for a 7-way).

 

[fredblue]

I have all the EJ SACD's that were released, all of which are among my most prized recordings....with the exception of Goodbye Yellow Brick Road. I have the 2 disc SACD and it is really uncomfortably bright for my ears. Not sure why it is different from the others. One reason may be that a third party got involved in the surround mastering process, apparently one Chris Bellman at Bernie Grundman Mastering, that is if the credits are to be believed. So if the new release has the same surround mix with the same mastering then I have no real reason to want another copy of it in a new format.

Thanks for the neat info

I don't know who did what to Greg Penny's mixes on the SACDs..
..but whatever it was Chris Bellman did, it doesn't sound like it has transferred over to the new Blu-ray (to me, on my rig, etc.).

Hope that helps in my layman's way of putting it?

 

[Perp]

I was reading a review by this guy over on Amazon and here is what he states with my question regarding the surround difference between the SACD and BD releases. His full review and comments are located at the following link: http://www.amazon.com/review/R4I1C7WA95MNF/ref=cm_cr_rev_detup_redir?_encoding=UTF8&asin=B00I48RA76&cdForum=Fx2XUER107Y01DD&cdPage=1&cdThread=TxWY5MY42CEP28&newContentID=Mx3HCH8W8N4LV7M&newContentNum=5&store=music#Mx3UIQ2GXDQPATR

I was over on Amazon this morning and noticed this reviewer has added to his review. Not sure when he did this because of no editing date but I don't remember reading it with the original review.

*****ADDENDUM: It has baffled me for two days why I sense a difference between the SACD and DTS 5.1 version. Tonight I found the answer after listening to my vinyl copy. The blu ray 5.1 DTS is the correct speed. The SACD version is sped up slightly. The blu ray 5.1 DTS is the way the song tempos are to sound, identical to the vinyl if played on a direct drive table (I always found that belt drives speed the LP up slightly). The most noticeable difference and what made me go back to the vinyl is Elton's pronunciation. The SACD on many songs sound "garbled" On the blu ray 5.1 you can understand every single word, especially on YOUR SISTER CAN TWIST and SATURDAY NIGHT. I am still unsure if I like blu ray 5.1 DTS better than SACD, but what a difference hearing it at the correct speed makes.*****

 

[fredblue]

Thank you for sharing that Perpendicular

All the differences people are hearing between the old SACDs and the new BDA in 5.1 are v.interesting.

I cannot put my finger on exactly what is going on but more and more it strikes me something weird (and detrimental) happened to Greg Penny's mixes in their mastering for SACD which by ear seems to be missing on the Blu-ray and seems to me to only be a good thing.

I wish more QQ guys had the Blu-ray so we can get some feedback from members here.

 

[Perp]

I purchased the BD off of Amazon from a third party seller because I noticed I would save over $5.00. Normally, I order via Amazon Prime and would have the disc by now. Today, I went on Amazon and noticed the disc is a couple of dollars less via Prime.

 

[blue.monk]

The assertion by that Amazon reviewer that the SACD is at the wrong speed is utter nonsense.

 

[fredblue]

I purchased the BD off of Amazon from a third party seller because I noticed I would save over $5.00. Normally, I order via Amazon Prime and would have the disc by now. Today, I went on Amazon and noticed the disc is a couple of dollars less via Prime.

Dognammit..!!!

 

[fredblue]

The assertion by that Amazon reviewer that the SACD is at the wrong speed is utter nonsense.

I've not checked it out but if all the songs are the same length (i.e. duration in minutes and seconds) in 5.1 on the SACDs as they are on the BDA then there can't be a pitch issue, can there?

all I know is the BD seems less bright and with better balanced rears. why and how I have absolutely no idea whatsoever but I have tried them back to back at the same volume (it didn't need altering flicking from one to the other) and they just don't sound identical. how much of this is down to the way bits of kit in my setup handle SACD/DSD and DTS differently (among all sorts of other variables) I really cannot say. I'm as perplexed today as to what's going on with this new BDA as I was when I first played the 5.1 on it and continually went "WTF!?" from one song to the next

 

[PK]

Thank you for sharing that Perpendicular

All the differences people are hearing between the old SACDs and the new BDA in 5.1 are v.interesting.

I cannot put my finger on exactly what is going on but more and more it strikes me something weird (and detrimental) happened to Greg Penny's mixes in their mastering for SACD which by ear seems to be missing on the Blu-ray and seems to me to only be a good thing.

I wish more QQ guys had the Blu-ray so we can get some feedback from members here.

My BD should arrive soon. In your opinion is there one track that stands out as the best example of having the most noticeable difference between the SACD and the BD? If so that would help narrow my focus and make use of my limited listening time in order to give some feedback...Thanks.

 

[fredblue]

Social Disease is markedly different due to the lack of fade-up in the intro on the BD compared to the SACD.

I've Seen That Movie Too is one where the acoustic guitars seemed less forward in the mix, plus the electric (wah-wah) solo (which starts in the centre and works its way out and around the other speakers towards its climax) seemed better integrated on the BD.

also Ray's tambourine seemed less attacking and bright on the BD than the SACD all the way thru All The Girls Love Alice.

I'm going to have a big play-out of the SHM-SACD vs. a whole slew of other versions next time I have a whole day free to use our main system and while I'm at it I will try to rack up the BD 5.1 against the Surround SACDs (time permitting) for a second time, to see what other differences I perceive this time around.

I say perceive because QQ member steelydave has done comparisons and waveform analysis showing up all sorts of stuff but nothing that could exactly back up my findings (less bright and better integrated rears being the overwhelming feeling) although during his own listening tests he also found the new BD to sound less bright and to have seemingly lower level rears. His posts on it all are somewhere in this thread, along with contributions from LizardKing.

 

[Perp]

What system combination are you using to listen to your surround discs Fred?

 

[fredblue]

What system combination are you using to listen to your surround discs Fred?

Cambridge Audio 651BD (to all intents & purposes an Oppo BDP-93)
Yamaha RX-V2067
Monitor Audio BX5 Fronts
Monitor Audio BX2 Rears
Monitor Audio BX Centre
REL Q50 LFE

 

[Perp]

Cambridge Audio 651BD (to all intents & purposes an Oppo BDP-93)
Yamaha RX-V2067

Yes, this is what I was looking for. You're doomed. Of course, only joking. You have some nice stuff there! A while back, I've heard that different equipment handle codecs differently and this may be one of the reasons why one format sound better over another.