HiRez Poll Emerson Lake & Palmer - TARKUS [DVD-A/BDA]

[kap'n krunch]

BTW, there is no hint of tape hiss on either of them!!!

How'd he do it?

 

[fluid]

So far, Steven Wilson has not been asked to remix any more ELP albums.

Thank you Sir for the info

 

[ssully]

(RANT WARNING)
Wah , wah wah, bitch , bitch , bitch ,mama....
I can't seem to find ANY fault in these two releases.
Excellent mixes...
headroom galore, plenty of bass on the mixes..

I'm not having any problem with bass on the remixes either. Not sure what's causing that criticism. And my only reservation so far is specifically with "Tarkus", mainly with the greatly altered sound of the keyboards, compared to the old mix.

"oh, it doesn't have the balls or bass that the original mixes did"
Well,
THEY ARE NOT THE ORIGINAL MIXES!!!!!!!
OF COURSE IT'S NOT GONNA SOUND THE SAME!!!!

I don't think anyone expects a remix to sound exactly the same as the original mix. What it really comes down to is what differences are improvements, and what are not -- a subjective call. SW's stated goal was along the lines of, keep the spirit of the original mix but add clarity and detail. People decide for themseves how well he achieved that. Nota bene that compression can give the impression of added 'punch' and 'clarity' and
'detail' -- a loudness effect. So can adjusting EQ.

These were mixes to play on a DVD-A with its corresponding s/n ratio, NOT AN LP or a Q8 or even a CD!!!!
D
V
D
AUDIO!!!!!!

So? Differences in a remix far exceed any audible differences between a CD and DVD-A version due to format. No one is complaining about S/N ratios as far as I can see. If you mean use of less compression than on the LP mixes -- CD has more dynamic range than LP too. SW's new mix is unlikely to sound any different rendered as Redbook. Redbook has enough effective dynamic range to handle any tape-sourced audio.

Deciding NOT to use compression in a new mix, if it was used when creating the original 2-channel mix, is going to change the sound of the new mix compared to the old, all by itself. That's in addition to changes in EQ.

I'd be curious to know what SW thinks Offord did during the original tracking and mixdown, to get his sound for Tarkus. Compression added to individual tracks during mixdown? Variable compression across the length of the track?

 

[strat54]

Tarkus sounds nice.

 

[ssully]

Still not thrilled with some of the mixing choices on this...especially the way the organ is pushed into the surrounds at low level, in Eruption, when (to me) it should leap out at you from front channels. I'd like the lead keyboard to be in the front channels more in general. And Emerson's Hammond doesn't really sound balls-out and 'clicky' until the solo in 'Mass'.

and there's these quibbles
-- the edits in 'Manticore', where the sound alternates from wet to dry, were always glaring, but they sound even more artificial now.
-- I miss the way Offord highlighted Lake's bass riff at 8:28 -- here, it's kind of meh.

I'm actually preferring the new 2 channel remix, played back using DPLII, to the discrete 5.1 mix.

No complaints about the bass in either mix. Plenty of low end rumble there.

As Tarkus (the track ) is really the only one I care much about, I'll probably give this DVDA a score somewhere in the middle range.

 

[tarkusnj]

Still not thrilled with some of the mixing choices on this...especially the way the organ is pushed into the surrounds at low level, in Eruption, when (to me) it should leap out at you from front channels. I'd like the lead keyboard to be in the front channels more in general. And Emerson's Hammond doesn't really sound balls-out and 'clicky' until the solo in 'Mass'.

and there's these quibbles
-- the edits in 'Manticore', where the sound alternates from wet to dry, were always glaring, but they sound even more artificial now.
-- I miss the way Offord highlighted Lake's bass riff at 8:28 -- here, it's kind of meh.

I'm actually preferring the new 2 channel remix, played back using DPLII, to the discrete 5.1 mix.


As Tarkus (the track ) is really the only one I care much about, I'll probably give this DVDA a score somewhere in the middle range.

Wow...somebody else hears, or doesn't hear what I hear. Mid range score on either of the ELP discs is generous.
And playing the stereo version using DPLII is funny. I have upmixes that someone did of the first 2 ELP albums that sound MUCH better than these releases (not sonically but surround treatment). The menu's are also far superior to these.

 

[Quad Linda]

9 I love it. Yes, it's not the most aggressive surround mix, but it's very good. And it is their best album.

 

[Ca1ore]

Outstanding effort that blows away any prior version of these albums I've heard. Love them in surround. No question that some of the very low bass is MIA. Compared Lucky Man from the BSS DVD-A with this one, and while I prefer the SW surround mix, the sub 25hz is missing. If your system doesn't do sub 30 convincingly, you won't notice.

 

[wavelength]

After listening to ELP (self-titled), Tarkus comes up short for me. And it is entirely because of the lack of bottom end. Otherwise I'm sure I would love this disc but the music just doesn't have the tonal quality that makes me anticipate/savour every note. There was another comment about it being cut-off and that's what it sounds like to me too.

 

[John Svensson]

"9 I love it. Yes, it's not the most aggressive surround mix, but it's very good. And it is their best album. " Yeah, what she said. I haven't A/B'd the Lucky Man challenge yet, but my memory prefers the more aggressive Wilson mix . John

 

[ssully]

Wow...somebody else hears, or doesn't hear what I hear. Mid range score on either of the ELP discs is generous.

The self-titled album 5.1 mix sounds fine to me, only points off are for not being the complete album. But neither that nor Tarkus are my favorite ELP albums, and I know them less well than the two that came next.

And playing the stereo version using DPLII is funny.

I typically play all CD tracks through DPL II. Tarkus is no exception. (And it's not the only release where I prefer a synthetic DPLII surround mix of the CD, to its dedicated 5.1 surround mix.)

I have upmixes that someone did of the first 2 ELP albums that sound MUCH better than these releases (not sonically but surround treatment). The menu's are also far superior to these.

I play audio directly from ripped files, so menus are irrelevant to me, compared to the mix and audio quality.

 

[Urban Spaceman]

I voted "10" here only because there was no "11" option. I was much more familiar with Tarkus than with the first LP so this was a bit more exciting for me to hear. No complaints about bottom end for me - my speakers are full-range so I'm not missing anything. Please, please, please let the next release be TRILOGY!
-------- Chris

 

[Ca1ore]

..the tapes SW had to work with in this instance may have been originally recorded without much low bass oomph in the first place and presenting them "as is" to the end user is perhaps not as good an idea as it initially sounds.

In comparing the two surround verisons of Lucky Man, there is bass-extension in the BSS version that is missing on the SW (doesn't make the former better, just different) version. I'm not an engineer, but my sense is that mastering wouldn't be the reason for this - rather the mixing process. So, whether these versions were mastered flat or not, that wouldn't explain the lack of low-bass extension, unless I simply misunderstand the mastering process?

Incidentally I actually prefer the SW mix overall.

 

[byrdman7]

Thank you Steven, Neil and Sony. Proud to add this to my collection. Brilliant work gentlemen. A "10" all the way :>)

 

[JonUrban]

NOTE TO MEMBERSHIP:

This thread has been "trimmed". I moved all of the posts not related to rating the TARKUS DVD-A to a different thread that everyone can post in forever!

Please keep posts in this thread to those that directly discuss the disc and content. This will make it easier for future members to read about the disc and not have to wade through pages of unrelated discussion which may be relavent now, but will be pointless in time.

Thanks for understanding. The moved posts are located here:

https://www.quadraphonicquad.com/fo...A-Discussion-(Not-related-to-Poll-evaluation)

 

[wavelength]

After listening to ELP (self-titled), Tarkus comes up short for me. And it is entirely because of the lack of bottom end. Otherwise I'm sure I would love this disc but the music just doesn't have the tonal quality that makes me anticipate/savour every note. There was another comment about it being cut-off and that's what it sounds like to me too.

Audio revelation #7841 (age * X; therefore X = 132): My bass management sucks. Changed the settings and low end is there. Great disc. Sorry I recorded a 7 on the poll. If I had an eraser I'd make it a 10.

 

[tarkusnj]

. Great disc. Sorry I recorded a 7 on the poll. If I had an eraser I'd make it a 10.

Contact Jon...I think he has an eraser. Lets all make sure these ELP releases get voted 9-10 so we can be sure we get another batch!

 

[Robert van Diggele]

I am loving Tarkus and the ELP self titled set. The 5.1 and new stereo mix is superb, plus some nice extra takes. And all for around €12,50. A big Thank You to all those involved in these sets!

 

[leevitalone1]

Last night I popped BSS in, now I know why people are saying what they are about Tarkus. ( I have it)
The "OOMPH" is gone! Unlike BSS, it lacks the 'punch" and drive. Being that it's old is no reason. BSS is old also. I am by no means a pro. studio person, but I know what has the presense and Tarkus is missing that. I go an 8 for tha reason alone. Personally I think it could and should have been done by the same people. Just my opinion.

 

[strat54]

The "OOMPH" is gone! Unlike BSS

I agree. Maybe all the "no brickwalling" and "flat transfer" hub-bub is not all that.
I think they did a fine job with BSS, minor limiting, avg. level compression and sub-harmonic generation on LFE. It sounds much better than the original vinyl to me. I wish they hyped the sound of Tarkus a bit more.
After all it's rock-n-roll (it's a dynamo), it was all squashed pretty hard when I first heard it on FM radio back in the day and I still enjoyed it.
I also would have liked a hi-res transfer of the original Offord stereo mix. That is something I really appreciated with the King Crimson DVD-A releases.