Future Dutton Vocalion & Dutton Epoch SACD Release Schedule

[esimms86]

it has been known for the Watford Wizards to put up the occasional pre-order from time to time

they packed my batch
last night

pre-order ⌨🖱

zero hour 9 am

and I'm gonna be....


high


as a Quaddie by then

We want details!

 

[fredblue]

We want details!

alas, details have i none..



twas but a pun
it felt like fun
while i was spun
now i'm curled up in a bun

 

[jefe1]

Ok Time to break out the soft pillow tie Mr Blue down and hit him with it.
After that make him him sleep on a soft bed for several hours.
We will get the info out of him!

 

[4-earredwonder]

Ok Time to break out the soft pillow tie Mr Blue down and hit him with it.
After that make him him sleep on a soft bed for several hours.
We will get the info out of him!

Rather, tar and feather the scoundrel

 

[Quadwreck]

alas, details have i none..

It's understandable that you can't say what may be coming, so I have another question to ask you: What old quad records and tapes should I put up for sale now before they drop in value?

 

[fredblue]

It's understandable that you can't say what may be coming, so I have another question to ask you: What old quad records and tapes should I put up for sale now before they drop in value?

absolutely! i wouldn't say even if i did
(and i don't! like Al Pacino in Scent Of A Woman, "i'm in the dark, Charlie!!"

if i were a betting man, i'd say CBS/RCA's odds on favourite, as the Wizards seem to have the best rapport with Sony out of the labels they've done Quads of so far.. i reckon the values of a lot of Quad LPs on RCA, Columbia/Epic and associated CBS labels will drop in the not too distant future.. not that some of them are worth much already anyway, they seemingly pressed up a lot of Abraxas'es'es'es back in the day and several other gold-bordered jobs you see everywhere for peanuts, which come to think of it i do!

 

[quicksrt]

It is getting late in the year now, and with mail delays in late Dec. I'm getting antsy. I can't help it, it's not my fault that this year has been one of the slower years for new surround material, and I'm counting on D/V to even it out for an end of year bang. Miles being delayed, it's now up to other 4.0 mixes to arrive to set it all right. Right? I'm really hope it's something(s) special coming.

 

[dmitchell9]

A friend of mine wrote Dutton Vocalion to inquire about the remaining Conniff quad titles and received the following response from Oliver Lomax dated October 21:

Thanks for your e-mail. I think it unlikely that we’ll release the remaining Ray Conniff quad albums, mainly because it’s becoming harder to license the material now. But thanks once again for all your support of our previous Conniff releases.

I don't know if this affects only Conniff or all Sony releases. Earlier this year, I read articles about Sony making it more difficult for third party licensing but was encouraged by releases during the summer months. Typically Dutton Vocalion announces releases around December 1 so hopefully we'll hear something next week.

 

[GOS]

nooooooooooooooooooooo

 

[fredblue]

A friend of mine wrote Dutton Vocalion to inquire about the remaining Conniff quad titles and received the following response from Oliver Lomax dated October 21:

Thanks for your e-mail. I think it unlikely that we’ll release the remaining Ray Conniff quad albums, mainly because it’s becoming harder to license the material now. But thanks once again for all your support of our previous Conniff releases.

I don't know if this affects only Conniff or all Sony releases. Earlier this year, I read articles about Sony making it more difficult for third party licensing but was encouraged by releases during the summer months. Typically Dutton Vocalion announces releases around December 1 so hopefully we'll hear something next week.

well if there's not going to be anymore Ray Conniff i can forget those pipe dreams of Edgar bloody Winter!

guess i better hang onto those old 8-tracks!

seriously, thank GOD for what we've had from Dutton Vocalion already, it really has been amazing the titles they've pulled out of the bag to date.

hopefully its not over til the fat lady sings so if they put out another batch of opera we should be alright for a bit more pop maybe!

 

[GOS]

Where, oh where is Steelydave when you need him? Would be nice for some clarification. But, doesn't sound so wonderful, does it?

 

[4-earredwonder]

It seems SONY only releases QUAD titles these days if they 'deem' there's a demand for them. Ray Conniff would hardly register on the radar in this day and age. And truthfully, if SONY Japan isn't going to release any more of those Santana QUAD titles or any other A listers ...why not consign them to Dutton~Vocalion and make an attractive deal with them rather them hoard them.

The same goes for all those unreleased QUAD/5.1 titles from other major [and minor] labels ........We really don't need [or want] any more of those pricey box sets.......

 

[steelydave]

Where, oh where is Steelydave when you need him? Would be nice for some clarification. But, doesn't sound so wonderful, does it?

I think any time there's any 'news' like this, we collectively tense up, because, in the words of Garth from Wayne's World, "we fear change." Obviously it's not my place to speak for what Vocalion's doing behind the scenes on the business side of things (both because I'm not privy to the majority of it, and confidentiality over what I do know) but I wouldn't read anything more in to Oliver's message than what he's said. Dutton Epoch just released a batch of classical SACDs that comprised something like 15 LPs worth of quad material, and I'm sure it won't be too long before you hear something from the Vocalion side of things that will allow everyone to exhale.

I always felt like the Vocalion easy listening titles were a miraculous act of defying commercial gravity, so I'm grateful for what we've had the last few years. If someone had told me 10 years ago that we'd have pretty much the complete Henry Mancini and Hugo Montenegro quad catalogs (never mind all the other great stuff) on SACD for half the price of what a single Sony SACD cost, I'd genuinely have laughed in your face, so outlandish would the possbility have seemed.

I think it's easy to paint Sony as the "bad guy" in this scenario because, as a corporate monolith, their decision-making processes seem entirely opaque to us peons down in the trenches and they aren't in the habit of explaining themselves. But, like the rest of the music industry, Sony faces real challenges in an industry that's seeing a seismic shift in the way their product is produced, sold and consumed - I suspect things for them have changed more in the last 5-10 years than in the 50 years before them combined. When the news about Sony curtailing licensing to smaller labels in the US broke earlier this year on the Film Score Monthly message board, one of the comments made by one of the insiders there (who I believe worked for a soundtrack reissue label) was that part of the reason was that with the small print runs these labels did that Sony was actually losing money on these titles after all the costs to them (ie. lawyers/contracts, vault searches, the reps they employ that deal with the reissue labels, and so on). Like a wise friend of mine once said, "if you're not making money from what you're doing, it's a hobby and not a business", and so I can see why Sony may have decided on a course correction, if this was the case. It certainly seems plausible to me - if you've ever had a lawyer do anything for you, you know how much they like to bill for any little thing, do you think the money you'd get from licensing 1000 discs x $5-$10 royalty per disc would cover it? It may make them seem like bastards at times, but this is why these big entertainment companies have survived some of them for nearly 100 years, because they don't let sentimentality get in the way of the bottom line.

I think a distinction also has to be made between being disappointed in the principle of there being no more Ray Conniff or Percy Faith SACDs, and actually being disappointed because there are quad albums from those artists that you really like and want to see reissued. If you're in the former camp, I get it - I think every quad mix deserves to be re-released digitally, and it's one of the reasons I've put so much effort in behind the scenes with D-V. But by the same token, if you never listen to these discs, I think it's not worth getting bent out of shape over. I know it will disturb the feng shui of your SACD collection if it's missing the last two Conniff quad albums, but I think we have enough other music to listen to to ease that pain. However, if you are someone who enjoys listening to these sorts of artists, I'd advise what I've always advised, and that is to vote with your wallet. If you don't have all of Vocalion's easy listening releases already, head over to their website and buy the ones you don't have, heck, buy two copies of something. If you don't have the money, take a chance on one disc you've been on the fence over the next time you have an order with an odd number of discs - that way you avoid cracked cases and support the cause. When Oliver says licensing these titles is "difficult," he doesn't mean because the master tapes are sitting on a pressure-sensitive pedestal in a cave guarded by a giant boulder like in Raiders of the Lost Ark, he means it's financially difficult to make the numbers add up. Every time you buy something from D-V, you contribute to making that a little easier for them.

I'd also suggest that it's not all doom and gloom - if Sony feel that "low yield" easy listening titles aren't worth their time financially any more, maybe they'll crack the door open a little bit to the vault that has all the more popular titles that the people here have been clamoring for the last few years? We may fear change, but it's worth remembering that not all change is bad.

 

[4-earredwonder]

I think any time there's any 'news' like this, we collectively tense up, because, in the words of Garth from Wayne's World, "we fear change." Obviously it's not my place to speak for what Vocalion's doing behind the scenes on the business side of things (both because I'm not privy to the majority of it, and confidentiality over what I do know) but I wouldn't read anything more in to Oliver's message than what he's said. Dutton Epoch just released a batch of classical SACDs that comprised something like 15 LPs worth of quad material, and I'm sure it won't be too long before you hear something from the Vocalion side of things that will allow everyone to exhale.

I always felt like the Vocalion easy listening titles were a miraculous act of defying commercial gravity, so I'm grateful for what we've had the last few years. If someone had told me 10 years ago that we'd have pretty much the complete Henry Mancini and Hugo Montenegro quad catalogs (never mind all the other great stuff) on SACD for half the price of what a single Sony SACD cost, I'd genuinely have laughed in your face, so outlandish would the possbility have seemed.

I think it's easy to paint Sony as the "bad guy" in this scenario because, as a corporate monolith, their decision-making processes seem entirely opaque to us peons down in the trenches and they aren't in the habit of explaining themselves. But, like the rest of the music industry, Sony faces real challenges in an industry that's seeing a seismic shift in the way their product is produced, sold and consumed - I suspect things for them have changed more in the last 5-10 years than in the 50 years before them combined. When the news about Sony curtailing licensing to smaller labels in the US broke earlier this year on the Film Score Monthly message board, one of the comments made by one of the insiders there (who I believe worked for a soundtrack reissue label) was that part of the reason was that with the small print runs these labels did that Sony was actually losing money on these titles after all the costs to them (ie. lawyers/contracts, vault searches, the reps they employ that deal with the reissue labels, and so on). Like a wise friend of mine once said, "if you're not making money from what you're doing, it's a hobby and not a business", and so I can see why Sony may have decided on a course correction, if this was the case. It certainly seems plausible to me - if you've ever had a lawyer do anything for you, you know how much they like to bill for any little thing, do you think the money you'd get from licensing 1000 discs x $5-$10 royalty per disc would cover it? It may make them seem like bastards at times, but this is why these big entertainment companies have survived some of them for nearly 100 years, because they don't let sentimentality get in the way of the bottom line.

I think a distinction also has to be made between being disappointed in the principle of there being no more Ray Conniff or Percy Faith SACDs, and actually being disappointed because there are quad albums from those artists that you really like and want to see reissued. If you're in the former camp, I get it - I think every quad mix deserves to be re-released digitally, and it's one of the reasons I've put so much effort in behind the scenes with D-V. But by the same token, if you never listen to these discs, I think it's not worth getting bent out of shape over. I know it will disturb the feng shui of your SACD collection if it's missing the last two Conniff quad albums, but I think we have enough other music to listen to to ease that pain. However, if you are someone who enjoys listening to these sorts of artists, I'd advise what I've always advised, and that is to vote with your wallet. If you don't have all of Vocalion's easy listening releases already, head over to their website and buy the ones you don't have, heck, buy two copies of something. If you don't have the money, take a chance on one disc you've been on the fence over the next time you have an order with an odd number of discs - that way you avoid cracked cases and support the cause. When Oliver says licensing these titles is "difficult," he doesn't mean because the master tapes are sitting on a pressure-sensitive pedestal in a cave guarded by a giant boulder like in Raiders of the Lost Ark, he means it's financially difficult to make the numbers add up. Every time you buy something from D-V, you contribute to making that a little easier for them.

I'd also suggest that it's not all doom and gloom - if Sony feel that "low yield" easy listening titles aren't worth their time financially any more, maybe they'll crack the door open a little bit to the vault that has all the more popular titles that the people here have been clamoring for the last few years? We may fear change, but it's worth remembering that not all change is bad.

Wise, WISE words, Dave and ones we SHOULD COMMIT TO MEMORY. I have purchased almost every QUAD title, classical and popular from Dutton Vocalion to likewise SUPPORT THE CAUSE but unfortunately, I'm probably in the minority. I've ALWAYS understood the UBER VALUE of each and every D~V QUAD release having paid WAYYYYYYY MORE for a single Stereo SACD from MoFi/AP and those ridiculously initially priced SHM~SACD STEREO releases from Universal Japan, so I know a veritable bargain when I see it.

And hopefully you're right ...... perhaps SONY will eventually open their A list QUAD floodgates and start either producing them, themselves, or license them to D~V at an attractive fee as I know MANY MORE copies would be sold rather than keep releasing easy listening titles which as we all know are hardly on anyone's MUST HAVE radar.

Having released well over 100 QUAD SACDs over the past few years, D~V has the distinction of being a singular champion in that field and through both a mastery of quality control and shear excellence, Michael Dutton [aptly called the Wizard of Watford] has enriched our sonic palettes, as even you stated, in a way unheard of only a scant few years ago.

The very fact that almost EVERY posting member on the QQ forum website is clamoring for MORE supports the theory that D~V is a QQF 'household name' synonymous with excellence and is indeed a testimony to the efforts of D~V's tireless crew and to your involvement in penning some very fine original liner notes which is truly a labor of love on ALL YOUR PARTS.

THANK YOU,THANK YOU, THANK YOU and in the wise [paraphrased] words of Dicken's TINY TIM ...... BLESS YOU MICHAEL DUTTON and hoping we all have a MERRY CHRISTMAS with some new D~V QUAD CLASSICS UNDER OUR TREE

 

[quicksrt]

I'd think that the titles that have arrived on D/V since that vague mention about soundtrack licensing are not previously cleared ahead, but have been given a go since then. In other words, nothing has changed except maybe D/V is seeing or noticing that more units are moved the more "popular" the title is. And maybe Ray Conniff and Percy Faith have both now reached their respective sales potentials. Not a bad thing. And if many of the titles that are being considered are pricey, too much for two-fers to be considered (like the Artys), then fine. Fine also if there ends up being the "Prestige" line of D/V titles that must make back an additional buck or two in costs = higher retail. Whatever it takes to keep this going for a while longer. It's obvious to me that we are close to getting some more good pop/rock things. After a disappointing year, I'm being optimistic here. Dec. 1st is about here!!!!

 

[bmoura]

When the news about Sony curtailing licensing to smaller labels in the US broke earlier this year on the Film Score Monthly message board, one of the comments made by one of the insiders there (who I believe worked for a soundtrack reissue label) was that part of the reason was that with the small print runs these labels did that Sony was actually losing money on these titles after all the costs to them (ie. lawyers/contracts, vault searches, the reps they employ that deal with the reissue labels, and so on).

It's also the reason that the other major labels (like Warner and Universal Music Group) also periodically review their reissue licensee list and drop the companies that are no longer profitable from an activity and volume level.
Dutton/Vocalion, Acoustic Sounds and Mobile Fidelity continue to release SACD titles and continue to remain in Sony's reissue program. Ditto for Acoustic Sounds and Mobile Fidelity when it comes to titles from UMG and Warner.

 

[fredblue]

It seems SONY only releases QUAD titles these days if they 'deem' there's a demand for them. Ray Conniff would hardly register on the radar in this day and age. And truthfully, if SONY Japan isn't going to release any more of those Santana QUAD titles or any other A listers ...why not consign them to Dutton~Vocalion and make an attractive deal with them rather them hoard them.

The same goes for all those unreleased QUAD/5.1 titles from other major [and minor] labels ........We really don't need [or want] any more of those pricey box sets.......

well if that's the case (and i hope it is!!) come on Sony, put yer money where yer mouth is and lets be having them Aerosmith's, Santana's, Edgar & Johnny Winter's, Dave Mason's, Billy Joel's, Isleys, Earth Wind and Flatulence's and those funky funky O'Jays'es'es! all the good stuff, yeah! at this point there's nobody better to bring it on home than Chief Wizard Dutton and all his Vocalion elves!

 

[bmoura]

well if that's the case (and i hope it is!!) come on Sony, put yer money where yer mouth is and lets be having them Aerosmith's, Santana's, Edgar & Johnny Winter's, Dave Mason's, Billy Joel's, Isleys, Earth Wind and Flatulence's and those funky funky O'Jays'es'es! all the good stuff, yeah! at this point there's nobody better to bring it on home than Chief Wizard Dutton and all his Vocalion elves!

Of course that isn't the case. Sony has been licensing albums for SACD since the start of the format.
Often the real hurdle is getting artist approval, the cost of licensing guarantees vs. expected return and albums previously licensed by other reissue companies.

But it is often easier beating up on the record label (Sony, Warner, UMG) vs. the artist and other considerations....

 

[fredblue]

I think any time there's any 'news' like this, we collectively tense up, because, in the words of Garth from Wayne's World, "we fear change." Obviously it's not my place to speak for what Vocalion's doing behind the scenes on the business side of things (both because I'm not privy to the majority of it, and confidentiality over what I do know) but I wouldn't read anything more in to Oliver's message than what he's said. Dutton Epoch just released a batch of classical SACDs that comprised something like 15 LPs worth of quad material, and I'm sure it won't be too long before you hear something from the Vocalion side of things that will allow everyone to exhale.

I always felt like the Vocalion easy listening titles were a miraculous act of defying commercial gravity, so I'm grateful for what we've had the last few years. If someone had told me 10 years ago that we'd have pretty much the complete Henry Mancini and Hugo Montenegro quad catalogs (never mind all the other great stuff) on SACD for half the price of what a single Sony SACD cost, I'd genuinely have laughed in your face, so outlandish would the possbility have seemed.

I think it's easy to paint Sony as the "bad guy" in this scenario because, as a corporate monolith, their decision-making processes seem entirely opaque to us peons down in the trenches and they aren't in the habit of explaining themselves. But, like the rest of the music industry, Sony faces real challenges in an industry that's seeing a seismic shift in the way their product is produced, sold and consumed - I suspect things for them have changed more in the last 5-10 years than in the 50 years before them combined. When the news about Sony curtailing licensing to smaller labels in the US broke earlier this year on the Film Score Monthly message board, one of the comments made by one of the insiders there (who I believe worked for a soundtrack reissue label) was that part of the reason was that with the small print runs these labels did that Sony was actually losing money on these titles after all the costs to them (ie. lawyers/contracts, vault searches, the reps they employ that deal with the reissue labels, and so on). Like a wise friend of mine once said, "if you're not making money from what you're doing, it's a hobby and not a business", and so I can see why Sony may have decided on a course correction, if this was the case. It certainly seems plausible to me - if you've ever had a lawyer do anything for you, you know how much they like to bill for any little thing, do you think the money you'd get from licensing 1000 discs x $5-$10 royalty per disc would cover it? It may make them seem like bastards at times, but this is why these big entertainment companies have survived some of them for nearly 100 years, because they don't let sentimentality get in the way of the bottom line.

I think a distinction also has to be made between being disappointed in the principle of there being no more Ray Conniff or Percy Faith SACDs, and actually being disappointed because there are quad albums from those artists that you really like and want to see reissued. If you're in the former camp, I get it - I think every quad mix deserves to be re-released digitally, and it's one of the reasons I've put so much effort in behind the scenes with D-V. But by the same token, if you never listen to these discs, I think it's not worth getting bent out of shape over. I know it will disturb the feng shui of your SACD collection if it's missing the last two Conniff quad albums, but I think we have enough other music to listen to to ease that pain. However, if you are someone who enjoys listening to these sorts of artists, I'd advise what I've always advised, and that is to vote with your wallet. If you don't have all of Vocalion's easy listening releases already, head over to their website and buy the ones you don't have, heck, buy two copies of something. If you don't have the money, take a chance on one disc you've been on the fence over the next time you have an order with an odd number of discs - that way you avoid cracked cases and support the cause. When Oliver says licensing these titles is "difficult," he doesn't mean because the master tapes are sitting on a pressure-sensitive pedestal in a cave guarded by a giant boulder like in Raiders of the Lost Ark, he means it's financially difficult to make the numbers add up. Every time you buy something from D-V, you contribute to making that a little easier for them.

I'd also suggest that it's not all doom and gloom - if Sony feel that "low yield" easy listening titles aren't worth their time financially any more, maybe they'll crack the door open a little bit to the vault that has all the more popular titles that the people here have been clamoring for the last few years? We may fear change, but it's worth remembering that not all change is bad.

TL DR! no, i didn't read it, i pored over every syllable! i scrutinised it as someone with a microscope studies creatures that swarm and multiply in a drop of water.. few Quaddies even considered the possibility of a Billy Paul 2-fer and yet just the other side of the M25, slowly and surely the Wizard of Watford was plotting his elves against us!!

*CUE MUSIC*

sorry, i mean, Q Music!!!!

dun dun dun!
dun dun dun!!

 

[fredblue]

Wise, WISE words, Dave and ones we SHOULD COMMIT TO MEMORY. I have purchased almost every QUAD title, classical and popular from Dutton Vocalion to likewise SUPPORT THE CAUSE but unfortunately, I'm probably in the minority. I've ALWAYS understood the UBER VALUE of each and every D~V QUAD release having paid WAYYYYYYY MORE for a single Stereo SACD from MoFi/AP and those ridiculously initially priced SHM~SACD STEREO releases from Universal Japan, so I know a veritable bargain when I see it.

And hopefully you're right ...... perhaps SONY will eventually open their A list QUAD floodgates and start either producing them, themselves, or license them to D~V at an attractive fee as I know MANY MORE copies would be sold rather than keep releasing easy listening titles which as we all know are hardly on anyone's MUST HAVE radar.

Having released well over 100 QUAD SACDs over the past few years, D~V has the distinction of being a singular champion in that field and through both a mastery of quality control and shear excellence, Michael Dutton [aptly called the Wizard of Watford] has enriched our sonic palettes, as even you stated, in a way unheard of only a scant few years ago.

The very fact that almost EVERY posting member on the QQ forum website is clamoring for MORE supports the theory that D~V is a QQF 'household name' synonymous with excellence and is indeed a testimony to the efforts of D~V's tireless crew and to your involvement in penning some very fine original liner notes which is truly a labor of love on ALL YOUR PARTS.

THANK YOU,THANK YOU, THANK YOU and in the wise [paraphrased] words of Dicken's TINY TIM ...... BLESS YOU MICHAEL DUTTON and hoping we all have a MERRY CHRISTMAS with some new D~V QUAD CLASSICS UNDER OUR TREE

"Quad bless us.. everyone..."