Gnarlywood: the thorn in Rhino's side?

[quicksrt]

I'm not going to rag on Rhino or Narlywood so much, as I think it's better suggesting that folks check out Target online for their Quadio Blu-Rays at discounted prices, and free shipping with over $35 purchase, or grab the Target Circle benefit.

No really:

https://www.target.com/s?searchTerm=Quadio+&tref=typeahead|term|Quadio+|||history

Uh-Huh!

And: Buy 1, get 1 50% off on select entertainment items
When purchased online

Ships free with ¬circle 360™ or $35 orders

Not a bad deal at all especially if one gets the free shipping offer.

 

[JediJoker]

In all fairness to Dutton Vocalion: to keep their prices LOW [and they certainly are], their decision to enclose them in standard CD jewel cases is a wise decision. Keep in mind, that SONY the inventor of the SACD format initially enclosed them in standard CD cases often with elaborate plastic overlays which they discontinued once the initial inventory sold out. In Japan, SACDs, even the SHM~SACD types are either being released in standard CD cases or cardboard.

And SACD cases while a nice touch are expensive to replace and are, IMO, not as durable and as easily replaced as the standard CD case types!

Agreed on all counts. The Japanese jewel cases (at least from major labels) and packaging in general, though, are usually a cut above in quality. I didn't exactly mean to disparage Dutton; I'm super grateful for their very reasonably priced releases and can't legitimately complain about their use of standard jewel cases. The ones they use, however, are clearly of the cheaper variety. And that's fine.

 

[The Rang]

Are there any jewel cases out there that aren’t cheap and flimsy?

 

[LuvMyQuad]

Are there any jewel cases out there that aren’t cheap and flimsy?

I've seen worse than those rhino cases.

 

[quicksrt]

I'm looking for an exact match for the Quadio super jewels. Anyone know where they can be ordered? I figure if I place an order for 20 of them with other items I need that shipping will be covered over. And I would have some to offer up to others that need a few. I have two slightly cracked cases I'd like to replace, but the hinges work and cases open and close correctly. But I guess sooner or later I'll get a smashed door or hinge.

 

[quicksrt]

Agreed on all counts. The Japanese jewel cases (at least from major labels) and packaging in general, though, are usually a cut above in quality. I didn't exactly mean to disparage Dutton; I'm super grateful for their very reasonably priced releases and can't legitimately complain about their use of standard jewel cases. The ones they use, however, are clearly of the cheaper variety. And that's fine.

Jewel cases got flimsier across the board, it was noted on Audio Fidelity product as well way back in years. Dutton are probably using the best standard cases available without a purchase from Germany or Japan as imports.

 

[fredblue]

Jewel cases got flimsier across the board, it was noted on Audio Fidelity product as well way back in years. Dutton are probably using the best standard cases available without a purchase from Germany or Japan as imports.

i guess technically the DV product could nowadays be classified as an import?

i imagine each entire package (disc, case, tray art, booklet, cellophane seal) will have been manufactured and assembled at the SACD-capable plant in Austria and shipped by the pallet/box load as a finished product to DV in the UK who then either ship it out direct to their own customers or distribute it to retailers/stockists and so on around the world.

i also imagine that when DV place an order with the factory for however many units of a particular title, there will have been meaningful dialogue beforehand about all manner of the exact configuration; how many discs are to be included in each case, the kind of jewel case on offer, whether the disc tray is to be solid or transparent, disc silkscreen printing, the number of pages and nature of printing (colour/b&w?) of the booklet and tray art and so on.

my hunch at this time is that actual outer case options may be quite limited at the factory, unless the label wants to shell out more money for something more elaborate, DV may possibly have the option, for example, to either have their SACD packages manufactured and assembled with the regular Redbook/CD style case, or a Super Jewel Box instead, or potentially some sort of digipak or card sleeve.

or they may not (!) and the CD type cases they use are the best the Austrian plant can do for SACD nowadays?

these are tough times for physical product in the age of streaming! who knows what goes on behind closed doors!?

not Charlie Rich's closed doors, the sealed doors to the secret magical kingdom of Watfordshire, where the Wizard and his elves do their thang ️

right! that's enough navel gazing, speculating and cogitating for one morning, time for corn flakes!

 

[Horbus]

I think we are mixing up issues here. Problem with Rhino is it's size as a company. To make changes it normally takes too long or won't happen at all. The CS at Rhino IMHO is excellent and you got the feeling they try hard to solve issues. At least that's my experience with them. Same applies to Dutton!
I think we can not complaint about the quality of the products itself, neither Rhino's nor Dutton's. Problems often occur at the interface between the core company and the service company be it Gnarlywood or the IOSS Shop Dutton works with (I had my issues there as well!).
So let's concentrate on the real "underperformer"

 

[Uncle Obscure]

Gnarlywood is a small privately held company, and it's a really small company when you take into consideration the breadth and needs of its roster of media clients. A quick Google search reveals that the last reported number of total company employees is 38 (which includes ONE! staff CSR.) To say they are punching above their weight is an understatement. In 2021, Gnarlywood partnered with inVia Robotics to deploy their inVia PickerWall AI-based robotic solution to help increase productivity and cut costs...

That's a whopping 65% decrease in the Gnarlywood workforce...from 94 people down to 32!

Considering the above, it's a minor miracle Gnarlywood manages to successfully fulfill as many Rhino orders as they do, especially with Rhino being only ONE of Gnarlywood's clients. Here's another article about Gnarlywood incorporating the inVia PickerWall automation solution.

This is pure speculation on my part, but I'm guessing that Rhino is one of Gnarlywood's more "high profile" media clients and, as a result, Rhino secured a sweetheart deal with them to administer their eCommerce fulfillment business. I don't know what kind of leverage that gives Rhino, but I have to think it gives them some say as to how Gnarlywood handles and ships Rhino product.

 

[barfle]

It’s probably just me and my method of storing my media, but I prefer the smaller cases that DV and Quadio are shipping most of their releases in. The CD and SACD jewel cases take up much less room than the DVD and Blu-ray cases. of course, my Oppo doesn’t care what format the disc is, so whatever I load into it, it gets played in its best quality format.

In order to fit three DVD cases in my drawers (see my build thread below), I had to resaw the sides of the drawer cases - at significant peril to my fingers. It came out OK, but if I hadn’t had to accommodate DVD cases, a lot of those project drawers would have been easier.

 

[ar surround]

I voted maybe since I haven’t had much trouble with the shipments, but many others have. But **** me once and it gets changed to “definitely.”

 

[quicksrt]

I've also had good delivery times on about everything. Just the two Quadios Starship and B$B I think it was, remember they were many weeks behind on two BRs.. Everything else was pretty good arrival times. I bought the Yes Progeny 21 LP box set when Rhino had a big sale. It took a total of 5 days to arrive, and was packed beautifully in custom box.

Now the communication is very poor as is the delivery times sometimes. And I feel for others and what they have gone though which is unacceptable. Rhino should understand clearly that a percentage of their buyers will not buy from their online store. And that they have only Gnarlywood and themselves to thank. Their prices are not the lowest on most of the items anyway. Amazon, Deep Discount. Discogs, etc. Plenty of other places to shop if one is not comfortable with Rhino directly sort of.

So I'm a maybe as well.

 

[sfactor23]

I've been trying to buy the Joni Mitchell Quadio set ever since it was released from these clowns, but regardless of which browser, dumping cookies, etc the Buy button doesn't work - on a 1 year old Windows 11 Dell computer. Finally they had a representative call me, and I thought that he could solve the issue, maybe even take my cc details and place the order. But no, only 20 minutes of offering discounts if I could somehow get their crappy system to work. He admitted it was an issue, but unlike Cherry Red, who have resolved their issues, no such progress at Rhino..

fwiw, I recently had that issue using Firefox on my PC - switching to Chrome fixed the issue

 

[sfactor23]

I know this could start another discussion, but I’ll give my two cents. My best option for purchasing Quadio discs here in the US has been Amazon. I’m a Prime member, so there is no shipping charge and the packaging is consistently solid. Never an issue with broken cases, availability or competitive pricing.

I agree: for batch #3, I waited and then placed the order through Amazon: two days later, I received the shipment. The Spinners case was cracked; received a replacement next day -
Meanwhile, I placed an order with Rhino two weeks ago during their Memorial Day sale and I’m still waiting (like others here) for my order to ship -

 

[4-earredwonder]

I'm looking for an exact match for the Quadio super jewels. Anyone know where they can be ordered? I figure if I place an order for 20 of them with other items I need that shipping will be covered over. And I would have some to offer up to others that need a few. I have two slightly cracked cases I'd like to replace, but the hinges work and cases open and close correctly. But I guess sooner or later I'll get a smashed door or hinge.

Acoustic Sounds carrries the exact same SACD replacement cases for US$1.25 each. They do offer FREE s/h on orders over $99 but should you order just the SACD cases alone without meeting that $99 threshold your s/h fees may be a bit HIGH

https://store.acousticsounds.com/d/12486/-SACD_Jewel_Case-CD_Care

 

[Orgillian197]

fwiw, I recently had that issue using Firefox on my PC - switching to Chrome fixed the issue

I use nothing but Chrome, tried FF and even Edge at Rhino's suggestion, with zero results. Edge wouldn't even allow placing items in the sales cart.

 

[JediJoker]

Gnarlywood is a small privately held company, and it's a really small company when you take into consideration the breadth and needs of its roster of media clients. A quick Google search reveals that the last reported number of total company employees is 38 (which includes ONE! staff CSR.) To say they are punching above their weight is an understatement. In 2021, Gnarlywood partnered with inVia Robotics to deploy their inVia PickerWall AI-based robotic solution to help increase productivity and cut costs...

That's a whopping 65% decrease in the Gnarlywood workforce...from 94 people down to 32!

It's "privately held" by LiveNation:

Gnarlywood LLC, a.k.a. Livenation Merchandise, has F and 1-star ratings from the Better Business Bureau.

Oof. Search for "Gnarlywood" on Google and one of the top results is a litany of negative Reddit threads going back several years. They've been in business for ten years and don't seem to be improving much, if at all, and may even be getting worse. I can only assume that Warner Music Group and Rhino have a sweetheart fulfillment deal, perhaps stemming from a relationship with Live Nation Entertainment proper (another target of much customer and industry criticism).

I'm guessing LiveNation laid off those employees.

I use nothing but Chrome, tried FF and even Edge at Rhino's suggestion, with zero results. Edge wouldn't even allow placing items in the sales cart.

But have you tried using your smartphone, as I suggested?

 

[Uncle Obscure]

It's "privately held" by LiveNation:

There appears to be some confusion here. According to the Gnarlywood LinkedIn profile, the company is privately held and Teddy Hicks is listed as the Managing Owner / President.

If you search the full laundry list of subsidiaries of Live Nation Entertainment, inc., Gnarlywood is not listed as one of them.

However, there is a listing for Live Nation Merchandise, Inc., but it's located in Delaware.

Here's where it gets interesting. The Live Nation Merchandise, Inc. BBB profile is a hot mess. Not only does Live Nation Merchandise have an F rating (resulting from shipping problems...who knew?) but it lists its address as Gnarlywood's Carlsbad, CA location and includes a website link to a Gnarlywood Instagram page with a bunch of "bands on stage" images and no other information.

Speculation on my part, but rather than Live Nation owning Gnarlywood, I think it's more likely that Gnarlywood handles the backend product fulfillment for Live Nation Merchandise like it does for Rhino, and the Gnarlywood branding is just part of their deal with Live Nation.

Regardless of the above, it does not take away from the fact that Gnarlywood has some serious operational challenges and it's surprising that these high profile media companies contract them to handle their media fulfillment and distribution needs. When customers buy merch from Rhino or Live Nation, they are not aware (nor should they be) that they are dealing with Gnarlywood. It should be an invisible support team that does not affect or otherwise damage the image of the Gnarlywood client. Just my two cents.

 

[Imbobman]

Gnarlywood is a small privately held company, and it's a really small company when you take into consideration the breadth and needs of its roster of media clients. A quick Google search reveals that the last reported number of total company employees is 38 (which includes ONE! staff CSR.) To say they are punching above their weight is an understatement. In 2021, Gnarlywood partnered with inVia Robotics to deploy their inVia PickerWall AI-based robotic solution to help increase productivity and cut costs...

View attachment 106367
That's a whopping 65% decrease in the Gnarlywood workforce...from 94 people down to 32!

Considering the above, it's a minor miracle Gnarlywood manages to successfully fulfill as many Rhino orders as they do, especially with Rhino being only ONE of Gnarlywood's clients. Here's another article about Gnarlywood incorporating the inVia PickerWall automation solution.

This is pure speculation on my part, but I'm guessing that Rhino is one of Gnarlywood's more "high profile" media clients and, as a result, Rhino secured a sweetheart deal with them to administer their eCommerce fulfillment business. I don't know what kind of leverage that gives Rhino, but I have to think it gives them some say as to how Gnarlywood handles and ships Rhino product.

Interesting.... Thanks for this Uncle Obscure! You have proudly lived up to your name.
I'll just add, my last few orders placed with Rhino have been excellent. Well packaged, shipped quickly & 100% accurate....
DV, also excellent! DV has pretty much always done a great job!
Thank you to both for the efforts you have put forth!
FWIW... shipping, packaging; ... all the logistics involved is tough! I worked in a manufacturing receiving dept. for 6+ years & saw the end results of many vendors efforts. Some of these were a joke!
Also, some years back, I sold/packaged 100's of various sized, shaped items going world wide. To say the least, it is a daunting task.. I was just a novice but learned a lot! Rhino/ DV are businesses, professionals whose livelyhood depends on getting it done.
All things considered; I will give them some 'grace' knowing the challenges they face!
...as far as the types of cases the discs come in.... the regular CD jewel case is fine. Easiest to replace& cheapest!

 

[Petr Kropotkin]

I'm not sure about the "solution" bit, but those familiar with the British idiom "arsing about" may well agree that Gnarlywood are indeed a "complete backend..."