How Do I make a DVD-A?

[wanners]

No, I've never used Bronze.

Could someone comment on this or clear it up? My understanding was as Neil stated above that you have to use mlp for 96/24 5.1 wav files as the bit rate is too high. I was surprised to learn that Cirlinca DVD-Audio Solo could burn such wavs (and flac/wma files!) directly to DVD without encoding to mlp (the program doesn't support mlp anyway). Now I find out that someone has successfully burned 96/24 5.1 wav files in Chrome (II?).

Can anyone explain this, what am I missing?

TIA!

 

[arnold_layne]

DVD-Audio spec:

The maximum permissible total bitrate is 9.6 Megabits per second. Channel/resolution combinations that would exceed this need to be compressed. In uncompressed modes, it is possible to get up to 96/16 or 48/24 in 5.1, and 192/24 in stereo. To store 5.1 tracks in 88.2/20, 88.2/24, 96/20 or 96/24 MLP encoding is mandatory.

 

[wanners]

I know, but why can DVD-Audio solo burn 5.1 24/96 without compression. What is going on? Is it reducing the bit or sample rate automatically without telling us? that would be a bummer.

 

[georgeshannon]

Its really very easy to do it yourself if you have Discwelder Chrome. Just author a DVDA with 5.1 96/24 files. They burn with no problem and play in Denon and Oppo players. The display from the Denon shows LPCM 96/24 is being played.

What would lead you to believe there is a maximum bitrate of 9.6M? Just curious. I've been making 96/24 5.1 uncompressed DVDA for years now. I was surprised at Neil's comments and just chalked it up to wrong math.

 

[arnold_layne]

From DVD-Audio Solo website:

When upmixing to 5.1 above 16/88kHz, it will be necessary to either use mixed resolution tracks with the HD-Audio Solo Ultra features (front and surround channels at different resolutions) or use downsampling.

 

[georgeshannon]

Boy, that HD Audio Solo Ultra sure has some unnecessarily retricted limitations. Hope they don't charge too much for their software. I sure wouldn't buy it.

You know, when folks talk about a mandatory limit before using compression, they are talking specifications; not reality. The DVDA spec may very well require MLP for 96/24 5.1 DVDA. (I'll bet you all a cookie and a soda that Meridian had a big hand in the writing of that particular specification. ) What is "proper etiquette" for a DVDA does not necessarily describe the physical limitations of the medium.

The group who wrote the DVDA specification required MLP for that data rate in part for political purposes and in part for the physical size limitations of the DVD. Most modern albums would not fit on a DVD when recorded at 5.1 96/24 without the use of a compression algorithm; especially when one includes a DTS/DD version and a stereo version.

But there is sure no reason to not record 5.1 96/24 onto DVDA when an album does fit. Can anyone think of a case where a product exceeds its specification at no additional cost to the customer?

 

[Ge Someone]

What is "proper etiquette" for a DVDA does not necessarily describe the physical limitations of the medium.

The limit we speak of here is a "data rate" limit not a "size limit". Those specs are to make sure every (DVD-A) player can read and process such disc.

 

[georgeshannon]

I didn't think you could burn 96/24 5.1 wav files in Chrome. Don't you get an error message when you load the 6 mono waves?

Do you get an error message when loading the 6 mono waves?

 

[neil wilkes]

I know, but why can DVD-Audio solo burn 5.1 24/96 without compression. What is going on? Is it reducing the bit or sample rate automatically without telling us? that would be a bummer.

Because Cirlinca allowed disc creation to continue even though it is out of spec as some players will be able to stream the audio, but it is not guaranteed to work. Rather like the inclusion of a Dolby Digital 640 stream on Floyd's "Pulse" album. It's out of spec, but some players will play it.
The DVD-A specifications give a maximum bitrate of 9.6Mb/sec for Audio, and uncompressed 24/96 5.1 is around 13.8Mb/sec.
What this means is that if it works for you, great. However, commercially it cannot be done as the specifications state 9.6

 

[ndiamone]

The 4GB limit of files on a hard drive, the 27 different kinds of things you have to do to a piece to get it to play on everything, and the twiddly nature of digital itself is just three reasons why I keep everything on 4 track half inch or 4 track 35-MM full coat mag.
Or sometimes I'll cut straight multiple PCM into Broadcast Wav (.bwav) format.

When they can come up with something that has 2 buttons on it Play and Record, works like an 8-track deck (push it in-it goes-take it out-it stops) and will read off and write to whatever optical disc format you drop into it, decode it all into the same format all by itself on the fly, and burn to a disc that everybody can play, then I'll go digital.

Til then I play my 35-MM full coat on a Westrex and my 4-track half inch on an Ampex 440-AG.

 

[wanners]

Do you get an error message when loading the 6 mono waves?

As I recall, I did get that message in Chrome that tells you to lower the sample rate. That's why the 6 files would have had to be put through surcode mlp.

To avoid this, I started using cirlinca to burn files at 96/24.

 

[georgeshannon]

That's strange. My version of Chrome does not give the error message, nor does it balk at 24/96 files.

 

[Bob Romano]

Having a little problem here...

I have an AUDIO_TS, a VIDEO_TS and a BONUS (an Audiospectrum release) folder that are in another main folder. I have tried using ImgBurn to burn these several different ways. I tried just choosing the 3 folders using the "Write Folders To Disc". Then I tried just the VTS and ATS folders. Then I tried all three folders in another main folder. Each time I get errors when playing the disc. What format should I be using? ISO9660, ISO9660+UDF etc??? I know I have used this to burn discs using folders but nothing on this one seems to work properly.

Thanks y'all.

 

[georgeshannon]

Bob, I just put the Audio_ts, Video_ts and Bonus folders in the source box and created an ISO file. (I used the Planet Waves conversion). Mounted the ISO file and all three folders showed up just right. That said, the audio_ts and Video_ts would play in their respective players.

The default settings in ImgBurn take you through the ISO creation process regarding the ISO9660, ISO9660+UDF stuff. If you're experiencing trouble with creating and ISO image containing three folders, maybe re-installing would be helpful to reset to default values.

If this doesn't help, please ask specific questions and I'll run tests to get you the answers.

Hope it helps,
George

 

[wanners]

The 4GB limit of files on a hard drive,

Not sure why you list this as a problem, the NTFS file system does not have a 4gb limit, that's the FAT system that has the limit. Just reformat your HD for NTFS.

The digital realm has its faults, but for me the benefits outweigh the limitations by a mile.

 

[neil wilkes]

That's strange. My version of Chrome does not give the error message, nor does it balk at 24/96 files.

For Quad, it won't.
For 4.1 it should and for 5.1 it will.
This is why we use MLP.

 

[georgeshannon]

For Quad, it won't.
For 4.1 it should and for 5.1 it will.
This is why we use MLP.

Neil,

It does not. Try it, you'll see.

Its a simple thing. Load a 96/24 5.1 PCM file into Chrome and it will accept it as easily as a 96/24 5.1 MLP file. Burns well. I made a test disc. If you are unable to do this simple test, I could upload the test disc for you to see.

In fact, here is the upload: http://www.demonoid.com/files/details/1970012/?rel=1245762531 for all you Doubting Thomas's out there.

George

 

[QuadMusic]

This is a question that seems to come up with some regularity, but why even bother with burning a DVD-A unless you have an in-car DVD-A player?

Instead connect a PC with a multi-channel sound card to you vintage receivers. Find any album in seconds, jump staright to any track, preserve your valuable vinyl/Q4/Q8 source material, and still enjoy the sound of your classic receiver. Add in a bit of NR according to personal taste.

PC

 

[Ge Someone]

.. using ImgBurn to burn these .. What format should I be using? ISO9660, ISO9660+UDF etc???

ISO9660 + UDF with UDF Revision set to 1.02 .
I don't know if it makes a difference, but I drag the AUDIO_TS first to the file/folder window of IMGburn (as it should be at the start of the disc to have the offsets correct), then the VIDEO_TS (and the rest if there is any).
IMGburn gives a notice, something about 32kB padding. That means it knows you're trying to burn a DVD-A or V.

If that doesn't work something is probably wrong with the AUDIO_TS (maybe the way it was created or ripped from the image or disc).

(is it Santana Welcome? )

 

[wanners]

This is a question that seems to come up with some regularity, but why even bother with burning a DVD-A unless you have an in-car DVD-A player?

Instead connect a PC with a multi-channel sound card to you vintage receivers. Find any album in seconds, jump staright to any track, preserve your valuable vinyl/Q4/Q8 source material, and still enjoy the sound of your classic receiver. Add in a bit of NR according to personal taste.

PC

I hear you, but call me old fashioned, I have to burn everything and plop it into the DVD player on the HTS to get full enjoyment. I like the PC for back up.