How do you play Quad mixes in a 7.1.4 system?

[MidiMagic]

So what do these new 7.1.4 systems do if you play any of the following recordings as a 2-channel source?

- QS
- SQ
- Dolby surround
- Dolby surround with height

 

[DaveLaPorte53]

I use the direct mode, but i cheat and split the SL into SL + SLB, and SR into SR +SRB, using a Y cable splitter at the input of the amp, it just fills up the space a little more.

 

[AYanguas]

I just completed the coding. I'll PM you a link to MMH 4.0.8 with these changes.

New Feature:
Remix Channel Layout Tool: Added new option to 'Move Quad rear channels to rear of 7.1 file'

Changes:
Remix Channel Layout Tool: User Defined Remix - increased max number of Channels to 8 (to support 7.1)

Could you please kindly test and provide feedback? If all looks good I'll publish the update.

No rush, when you get a chance to test.

I have tested the MMH 4.0.8 for the Conversion of FLAC 4.0 (extracted from a Quad Album DVD-A MLP) to FLAC 7.1 with the rear Channels mapped to the Surround Back channels 7,8

The conversion itself was good.

The 7.1 FLAC files can be played from 'DUNE HD Solo 4K' and from 'DUNE HD PRO 4K' to the Denon 8500. The AVR shows active all Multichannel 7.1, but only Front and Surround Back speakers get the QUAD mix content succesfully.

The Oppo 203 can play the same 4.0 and 5.1 Multichannel FLAC files (MMH converted inserted silent C, LFE), but rear QUADs go to Side Surround Speakers, as expected.

But the Oppo 203 cannot play the 8 channel FLAC files generated by MMH. It hangs when playing the file and before getting complete unresponsive the "INFO" button shows 6 channel Info from the file (instead of 8).. Then the Oppo completely hangs and a Power Off is the only thing to do. Many other varied types of files always play well with my Oppo, but It seems Oppo 203 does not support 8 channel FLAC and it get stucked. It was the first time I tried 8 channel FLAC files with the Oppo.

So. in summary, I think you can publish the update.

Many Thanks.

 

[HomerJAU]

There's quite a few reports the Oppos won't play 7.1 from FLAC from a USB.

You can use AudioMuxer to convert the 7.1 FLACs to MKV. The 7.1 MKV will play from a USB on the Oppo.

 

[Hamilton59]

It is a "known feature' + 'known bug' of the DTS decoder, at least in Denon.

1) DTS decoder 'copies' the Surround channels to the Surround back channels in an attempt to image the sound between each pair sides of surrounds to emulate the supposed position angle that a 5.1 would have with surrounds more at the rear, instead of surround sides location at 90º that is more usual in a 7.1 config. It also compensates for the two speaker sound level to have same level.
If you careful listen near the speakers, check that they sound the same and not different content as when 'upmixing'. THIS is the 'feature'

2) The display shows the Height speakers active, but really no sound goes to them. THIS is the 'bug' but only at the display pannel. You could check if height speakers are really silent.

3) What is new for me, because I never notice with DTS 4.0, is the display Center Speaker active. Perhaps is also a 'display bug' and the Center channel is silent.

So, in summary, it is a good implementation of DTS 5.1 playing in a 7.1 system to sound as if you had a 5.1 speakers system. Only display 'bug' keep lighting the rest of speakers, but they are silent (pending check the Center Channel).

When you select a PCM track in a Bluray instead of the DTS track this does not happen as it is not the DTS decoder working. You should have then available the Sound Option of Multichannel to get only the input channels from the signal (plus the SUB for bass management).

Outstanding information @AYanguas , thank you !

I was not aware of this DTS decoder behavior with Marantz/Denon systems. I just verified that this is indeed what is happening with my SR 8012. As to your specific points:

1) It does appear to duplicate the signal etc between the side and rear surround on each side.

2) You are correct, the height speakers are indeed silent ! Great news there. I really didn’t want those smaller ceiling speakers active during 4 channel quad play back.

3) The center channel is also silent whilst the “display bug” indicates it is active.

After testing both LPCM 4 channel vs bitstream decoded 6 channel playback, I still prefer the sound of the LPCM 4 channel slightly better. I have 4 large full size matching speakers for my front and side surround speakers. My side surround speakers are positioned slightly back behind me vs 90* straight out to the side. My rear channel speakers are positioned behind me. The bitstream DTS decoded 6 channel playback does wrap the rear channel sound behind me more, but I think it is too much and sounds some what diluted when compared to just the 4 main speakers.

Thank you again for this DTS decoder behavior. It is good information to know !

David

 

[stereoptic]

There's quite a few reports the Oppos won't play 7.1 from FLAC from a USB.

You can use AudioMuxer to convert the 7.1 FLACs to MKV. The 7.1 MKV will play from a USB on the Oppo.

Reviving this 3 year old post - I have had success with 8 channel .wav files instead of FLACs for my Oppo 203. However, the 2 channels aren't sent to the front height, they mix in with the rear surrounds.

 

[jimfisheye]

How do you play Quad mixes that usually have too much discrete content in the two rear channels, if you have a 7.1.4 home cinema rig?

...

I actually have two different speaker manager setups. 7.1.4 vs everything else. Precisely because of the side vs rear faux pas.

Maybe I could do something tricky with some script to determine the channel format and route appropriately... but I haven't. I just click on the one I want. We'll see how this plays out as well as if I really start ripping all the Atmos albums to wavpack - leading to mixing formats in a playlist for shuffle play. (It's a real time rip at present and I've only done a few so far.) I always try to be output based with the computer and not fall into OCD stuff just to see things on the screen.

 

[user 21109]

Does anyone have experience using a oppo 205 into an Onkyo TX-RZR50? I have a four pack of the new Rhino Quad recordings and would prefer not to change my HT settings ...I have 7.1.2 now the rear surround on my sides and the back surrounds on the ceiling are about equidistant from the listening position...the atmos are on top of the front speakers, facing up at an angle. Is there a good setting on the Oppo to just output 4 channel?

 

[aardvark2300]

Does anyone have experience using a oppo 205 into an Onkyo TX-RZR50? I have a four pack of the new Rhino Quad recordings and would prefer not to change my HT settings ...I have 7.1.2 now the rear surround on my sides and the back surrounds on the ceiling are about equidistant from the listening position...the atmos are on top of the front speakers, facing up at an angle. Is there a good setting on the Oppo to just output 4 channel?

Bummer - 7 months and nobody has an answer for this. I have bought an RZ70 and have been listening to a bunch of quad content on my 5.1, but I am going to a 7.1.4 and I think I might have an issue as well!

 

[~dave~~wave~]

Bummer - 7 months and nobody has an answer for this. I have bought an RZ70 and have been listening to a bunch of quad content on my 5.1, but I am going to a 7.1.4 and I think I might have an issue as well!

I'm liable to start a sh*tstorm of dissent, but I will poke my head up above the wall to make an observation and a modest proposal to your hypothetical problem.

In my listening room, the sweet spot is dead center.
There is nowhere to put "side surrounds" in the Atmos location, because there are doors on each side wall.

When setting up my room originally for 5.1, I experimented with the rear placements, but found they work best in the rear corners. The fronts do better in the corners as well, with a full-range center, for a wider sound field than the accepted 30 degree.

When I upgraded to 7.1, I tried it again, but hearing my treasured quads in a horseshoe sound field at my elbows rather than a square behind me ended quickly & decisively.

My solution was to use the guide in my old used Yamaha AVR manual to return my rear surrounds to the corners in quad configuration, and space the back surrounds equally across the back wall, approximately like the diagram below.

All the speakers are properly toed-in to the sweet spot.
The four ceiling speakers tilted & toed-in similarly in a tighter square.

All I'm saying is it works for me, every space is different, especially with a couch against the back wall.
I'm here to listen the way I like, not mix to the Atmos spec.

I am not going to have a separate quad room, or rig up a switch box to move the rear quad signals from sides to back.

Another thing to consider, as has been discussed in other threads, is depending on your space, two extra "back" surround channels may not gain much advantage over a properly calibrated 5.1.4 rig, depending on the main listening location.

Just my two cents, not advocating that my way is better for anyone else, simply that everything is a compromise.
YMMV

 

[barfle]

Well, I don’t have a 205, I have a 105, feeding a 5.1 setup, and it works fine. Oppo and pre-pro are capable of 7.1, but the room configuration makes that very awkward to implement. So settings are for 5.1, and quad discs play as it seems they should. Channel ID files play correctly.

 

[DrKlahn]

I'm liable to start a sh*tstorm of dissent, but I will poke my head up above the wall to make an observation and a modest proposal to your hypothetical problem.

In my listening room, the sweet spot is dead center.
There is nowhere to put "side surrounds" in the Atmos location, because there are doors on each side wall.

When setting up my room originally for 5.1, I experimented with the rear placements, but found they work best in the rear corners. The fronts do better in the corners as well, with a full-range center, for a wider sound field than the accepted 30 degree.

When I upgraded to 7.1, I tried it again, but hearing my treasured quads in a horseshoe sound field at my elbows rather than a square behind me ended quickly & decisively.

My solution was to use the guide in my old used Yamaha AVR manual to return my rear surrounds to the corners in quad configuration, and space the back surrounds equally across the back wall, approximately like the diagram below.

All the speakers are properly toed-in to the sweet spot.
The four ceiling speakers tilted & toed-in similarly in a tighter square.

All I'm saying is it works for me, every space is different, especially with a couch against the back wall.
I'm here to listen the way I like, not mix to the Atmos spec.

I am not going to have a separate quad room, or rig up a switch box to move the rear quad signals from sides to back.

Another thing to consider, as has been discussed in other threads, is depending on your space, two extra "back" surround channels may not gain much advantage over a properly calibrated 5.1.4 rig, depending on the main listening location.

Just my two cents, not advocating that my way is better for anyone else, simply that everything is a compromise.
YMMV





View attachment 107918

That's very similar to my setup and I have had no problems with either 5.1 or 4.0 imaging well with the side speakers. I know it's not the "norm" but it sounds great to me. The side speakers can convincingly image across the back of the room and sound just fine for movies. You can see them angled towards the MLP in the picture. The seating is just ahead of the side speakers.

 

[jimfisheye]

The ultimate 'hands free' solution is to convert all one's 4.x/5.x files to 7.x. Padded with blank channels just like when converting 4.0 to 5.1.

The -ac 8 command in ffmpeg does it simply. I haven't taken the plunge yet and batch converted my whole archive but I think I'm going to. Blank channels are free (zero extra space) with flac.

 

[MidiMagic]

The ultimate 'hands free' solution is to convert all one's 4.x/5.x files to 7.x. Padded with blank channels just like when converting 4.0 to 5.1.

The -ac 8 command in ffmpeg does it simply. I haven't taken the plunge yet and batch converted my whole archive but I think I'm going to. Blank channels are free (zero extra space) with flac.

I would rather keep all materials in their original formats.

I might matrix some of the discrete material so I can play it on my other systems.

 

[jimfisheye]

I would rather keep all materials in their original formats.

I might matrix some of the discrete material so I can play it on my other systems.

Haha! Are you being facetious? Where do you land between those polar opposites? The matrix encoding is highly lossy. The original discrete channels of audio can never be fully restored.

The padding with blank channels (digital zero) keeps these fully in original format, FYI. The audio is 100% original and unaltered. The higher channel count format includes the same original channels from the lesser format. $20 doesn't turn into something else when you add decimal places for change. $20.00 = $20. A quad album in a 7.1 file with blank side, center, and Lfe channels is still the original 4.0 audio unaltered and in the same expected channels. This forces original correct channel use even in players that aren't programmed very well.