How we gonna play our discs in the next future?!

[Sal1950]

From what I remember, the whole choice for using DSD on the SACD was to allow for cheaper DACs to be implemented into consumer players, as 24-bit 96-kHz DACs were expensive at the time SACD development started...but by the time SACD launched the price difference was negligible.

I believe the whole DSD drive was to lock down the disc's from being copied, etc.
CD ripping was already easy and rampant, but even to this day the ripping of SACDs is a very convoluted process
with dedicated hardware and software required to do so.
IMHO the myth of any superior sound quality over even plain Redbook 16/44.1 was spread into and by the High End cult to boy it's sales. The only real advantage the SACD discs allowed was the data density to support discreet multich over the CD's encode & compressed DTS-CD option.
As a 50+ year multich enthusiast I was never move pleased and excited to first see the DVD options appear on the scene, and then praise be the BluRay discs.
Optical media may be on the decline but I don't believe it will completely disappear as long as there are enough SOTA music and movie lovers like us still around to support it.

 

[DrKlahn]

That's true...but then I take a look over at the cassette realm, where there really isn't a new cassette deck with any sort of Dolby Noise Reduction...which is used on a LOT of cassette tapes.

While true, once you have the optical drive that can read the discs the rest is just software. There's no special physical hardware needed to support CD->UHD as long as the drive can read the bits.

 

[zdjh22]

Just curious, do the stories that pop up now and then about Sony converting the Columbia analog tape archive they acquired in the big merger in 1988 to DSD as purely an archival format ring true? See for example the Dr. AIX columns such as https://www.realhd-audio.com/?p=3779. Clearly DSD was not intended at that time as a consumer format, nevertheless it was chosen about a decade later for SACDs.

I had a long career at a particle physics (“high energy physics”) laboratory where hundreds of petabytes of data (many thousands of petabytes by now) from both our lab and the CERN CMS experiment were written to tape, not disc, and we were under regulatory obligations to preserve those data and products derived from them. That meant that about every 3 to 5 years, every tape had to be read from an old format, and written to whatever was the chosen new format, ensuring that no bits were changed. From 8mm helical scan, to Storage Technology “Redwood”, “Eagle”, and “Beagle”, through DLT, and then all the LTO generations. Not my main responsibility, but data integrity and preservation of the ability to interpret those data were nevertheless part of life. Thank goodness for virtualization and the ability to preserve old operating systems and programs.

For my own multichannel and stereo archives, every physical disc is ripped to an image format (ISO for DVD, BluRay, SACD, compressed wav for CD) on the first or nearly first access. Those files get written to copy-on-write filesystems that can detect and correct single bit errors on any read (I use ZFS, BTRFS would suffice). Every filesystem gets backed up regularly. The ISO and wav formats are well documented and will always be readable as new computer hardware becomes available. The PCM formats, or PCM derived from DSD, will always be playable. Unfortunately the proprietary formats written to some of those ISO images (Atmos in TrueHD, Auro-3D, DTS:x) are vulnerable to loss of the knowledge of how to interpret and render them.

For Atmos, on a Mac using Loopback or Blackhole, the built-in Atmos renderer, and Audacity, a 7.1.4 render of any E-AC3-JOC file that streams on that platform can be recorded. Sadly it’s just a digital render, not the preservation of the Atmos object information. Likewise renders can be recorded of Atmos in TrueHD if the DRP is available. A Realiser A16 with the Dante 16-channel digital interface should be able to do the equivalent with DTS:x, Atmos, and Auro-3D, but I don’t have the funds to try that, and frankly the renders are not sufficient.

 

[MidiMagic]

PS Audio, through their physical media group Octave Records, is releasing a handful of stereo only SACDs. They also make a player that’s too expensive. Dutton is also releasing a handful of SACDs in MCH formats. I don’t know of anyone else, but that’s an admission of ignorance more than anything else.

I believe I understand die-hards hanging on to what they know. And I’ll undoubtedly continue to support them as I’m able.

It's not hanging onto a technology. It's needing a way to play the recordings we spent our hard-earned money on.

They want you to buy the same recording again (and pay the same royalties twice) to be able to play it.

 

[barfle]

It's not hanging onto a technology. It's needing a way to play the recordings we spent our hard-earned money on.

They want you to buy the same recording again (and pay the same royalties twice) to be able to play it.

I was referring to new releases. I’m glad I can play so many different types of discs. My Oppo 105 is awesome. But I’m sure its finite, and if it dies before I do, I’d be surprised if it doesn’t take multiple machines to replace that functionality, all because of a handful of disc-makers still using a format that was (apparently) deliberately built to thwart accessibility (ripping and editing).

 

[par4ken]

It's not hanging onto a technology. It's needing a way to play the recordings we spent our hard-earned money on.

But that is exactly what it is! You have to hang on to the old technology (equipement) to play those vintage recordings. You don't expect anyone to market a new Edison Cylinder Player do you?

They want you to buy the same recording again (and pay the same royalties twice) to be able to play it.

If you are happy with the original vinyl LP you are not forced to buy the CD or SACD or Blu-ray! Many of us purchase the same recording in multiple formats because we want the best possible sound. Technology has to advance. If I was happy with a crappy pre-recorded cassette of a performance I would be under no obligation to upgrade. And once again all those shiny discs can be played seamlessly on the same player or ripped to (a modern) hard drive.

 

[Sal1950]

But that is exactly what it is! You have to hang on to the old technology (equipement) to play those vintage recordings. You don't expect anyone to market a new Edison Cylinder Player do you?

Agreed. I don't get the complaining about some conspiracy against the consumers wallet when in the majority of cases it's the consumer that demanded the better technology (sound). I've been very happy to pay for my fav recordings each time we progressed from 78/45s, to LP, to CD, to multich etc etc etc.
If I didn't want it, I wouldn't have bought it.