HiRez Poll Isley Brothers, The - 3+3, LIVE IT UP & GO FOR YOUR GUNS [SACD]

[sjcorne]

Please post your thoughts and comments on this 2024 Multichannel SACD from Dutton Vocalion containing three albums from The Isley Brothers
This Multichannel SACD features the first official release of the Live It Up & Go For Your Guns Quadraphonic mixes since the 1970s!

Note that the Quadraphonic mix of 3+3 was previously released on SACD in 2001. This poll only concerns the 2024 Dutton-Vocalion release.

3+3
LP KZ 32453 (1973) STEREO/PZQ 32453 QUADRAPHONIC

1 THAT LADY (E, M Isley; Jasper)
2 DON’T LET ME BE LONELY TONIGHT (Taylor)
3 IF YOU WERE THERE (E, M Isley; Jasper)
4 YOU WALK YOUR WAY (E, M Isley; Jasper)
5 LISTEN TO THE MUSIC (Johnston)
6 WHAT IT COMES DOWN TO (E, M Isley; Jasper)
7 SUNSHINE (GO AWAY TODAY) (Edwards)
8 SUMMER BREEZE (Seals; Crofts)
9 THE HIGHWAYS OF MY LIFE (R, R, M, O, E Isley; Jasper)

Ronald Isley, Rudolph Isley, O’Kelly Isley (vocals)
Ernie Isley (electric guitar [CD 1 1, 3–7], 6-string acoustic guitar [CD 1 2, 5, 8], 12-string acoustic guitar [CD 1 9], maracas [CD 1 6], tom-toms [CD 1 6], electric piano [CD 1 8])
Chris Jasper (piano [CD 1 1–4, 6, 8–9], electric guitar [CD 1 2], clavinet [CD 1 3, 5–7], electric piano [CD 1 3–9], Moog synthesizer [CD 1 7–9])
Marvin Isley (bass guitar)
Truman Thomas (organ [CD 1 1, 3–6])
Rocky (congas)
George Moreland (drums [CD 1 1–3, 5–7], tom-toms [CD 1 6])
Recorded at Record Plant West, Los Angeles
Recording engineers: Malcolm Cecil, Robert Margouleff
Quadraphonic remix engineers: Malcolm Cecil, Robert Margouleff
Producers: Ronald Isley, Rudolph Isley, O’Kelly Isley

LIVE IT UP
LP PZ 33070 (1974) STEREO/PZQ 33070 QUADRAPHONIC

10 LIVE IT UP (PARTS 1 & 2) (R, R, M, O, E Isley; Jasper)
11 BROWN-EYED GIRL (R, R, M, O, E Isley; Jasper)
12 NEED A LITTLE TASTE OF LOVE (R, R, M, O, E Isley; Jasper)
13 LOVER’S EVE (R, R, M, O, E Isley; Jasper)

CD 2

1 MIDNIGHT SKY (PARTS 1 & 2) (R, R, M, O, E Isley; Jasper)
2 HELLO, IT’S ME (Rundgren)
3 AIN’T I BEEN GOOD TO YOU (PARTS 1 & 2) (R, R, M, O, E Isley; Jasper)

Ronald Isley, Rudolph Isley, O’Kelly Isley (vocals)
Ernie Isley (drums [CD 1 10], electric guitar [CD 1 10, 12; CD 2 1–3], 6-string acoustic guitar [CD 1 11–13; CD 2 2], 12-string acoustic guitar [CD 1 12], tambourine [CD 1 12])
Chris Jasper (electric piano [CD 1 10, 13; CD 2 1–3], clavinet [CD 1 10, 12; CD 2 1, 3], ARP synthesizer [CD 1 10], maracas [CD 1 12], piano [CD 1 11, 13; CD 2 1], Moog synthesizer [CD 1 13; CD 2 1, 3])
Marvin Isley (bass guitar)
Truman Thomas (organ [CD 2 3])
Karl Potter (congas [CD 1 11–12; CD 2 1, 3])
George Moreland (drums [CD 1 11–13; CD 2 1–3], woodblock [CD 1 12])
Recorded at Record Plant, Los Angeles
Associate production, engineering and synthesizer programming: Malcolm Cecil, Robert Margouleff
Assistant engineer: Gary Ozabul
Mixed at Westlake Audio, Los Angeles
Assistant mixing engineer: Joan De Cola
Remixed in quadraphonic at Studio 3, Kendun Recorders, California, 30 August 1974
Quadraphonic remix engineer: Kent Duncan
Producers: The Isley Brothers

GO FOR YOUR GUNS
LP PZ 34432 (1977) STEREO/PZQ 34432 QUADRAPHONIC

4 THE PRIDE (PARTS 1 & 2)
5 FOOTSTEPS IN THE DARK (PARTS 1 & 2)
6 TELL ME WHEN YOU NEED IT AGAIN (PARTS 1 & 2)
7 CLIMBIN’ UP THE LADDER (PARTS 1 & 2)
8 VOYAGE TO ATLANTIS
9 LIVIN’ IN THE LIFE
10 GO FOR YOUR GUNS (all R, R, M, O, E Isley; Jasper)

Ronald Isley, Rudolph Isley, O’Kelly Isley (vocals)
Ernie Isley (electric guitar, drums)
Marvin Isley (bass guitar)
Chris Jasper (keyboards)
Everett Collins (congas [CD 2 6])
Arrangements: The Isley Brothers & Chris Jasper
Recorded at Bearsville Studios, New York, December 1976–January 1977
Recording engineers: John Holbrook, Thomas Mark
Mixed at Mediasound Studios, New York
Quadraphonic sound and remix supervision: Thomas Mark
Quadraphonic remix engineer: Larry Keyes
Producers: The Isley Brothers & Chris Jasper

Remastered by Michael J. Dutton

Multi-Channel/Stereo
All tracks available in stereo and multi-channel

SACD
These Hybrid CDs can be played on any standard CD player

2CDSML 8581



Pre-release thread for all shipping/ordering queries and non-poll related posts:
https://www.quadraphonicquad.com/fo...isley-bros-hair-ost-enoch-light-tomita.36138/

 

[fredblue]

a veritable desert island release, i've longed to hear these old Quads in this kind of quality for so long i almost gave up hope of any of them ever materialising on SACD etc. and woo-hoo the Whizzo Wonder of Watford answered the call and made my dreams come true!!

sometimes i like to see just how good value some of this stuff is.. and these Isley Quads are no exception







it took me 3 copies of the "Live It Up" SQ Quad LP to get a decent enough playing copy, 2 copies of "Go For Your Guns" SQ Quad LP (the first disc i picked up was pressed off-centre and there was all this distortion and sibilance so i don't know what that was all about, the next one i found was sealed but it was £37 plus shipping! ) and i got the Japanese SQ LP of "3+3" primarily for Surround Master testing and comparison purposes since i had the old Sony SACD and was happy with that.. anyway.. having kept lists of my music purchases over the years i worked out that wee wodge of vinyl set me back a grand total of £119 (+ shipping) and these spanky new Vocalion SACDs a mere snip by comparison at £23.99 plus p&p..!!

i will go into greater depth at a later date but suffice to say for now there's no way this set can be anything less for me than a "10".

 

[Dynamic Editor]

Were the vocals always mixed behind the listener on the quad release of "Climbin' Up the Ladder"? It's throwing me for a loop a bit because none of the songs so far on this set mixed the lead vocals behind the listener.

Great balance between the front and backs throughout the album, btw.

 

[sjcorne]

Were the vocals always mixed behind the listener on the quad release of "Climbin' Up the Ladder"? It's throwing me for a loop a bit because none of the songs so far on this set mixed the lead vocals behind the listener.

The lead vocals in that song are double-tracked, but for the quad mix they put one part in front center and the other in rear center. I've always thought it sounded cool, and the technique isn't uncommon in surround mixes today (see Steven Wilson's 5.1/Atmos mixes of "Holiday" from Rick Wright's Wet Dream or "My Wife" from Who's Next, for example).

 

[Dynamic Editor]

I find it hard to put into words, but there's something about the Isley quads that is distinctly different from other quads I've heard. Maybe it's the instruments not being as hard panned as other quads? I'm not sure. It definitely feels less segmented than some other mixes I've heard. (By "segmented", I mean a clear delineation between the rears and the fronts that creates a sense of dissonance in the music itself.)

Even though I have issues with segmentation I noted (in general, not with this mix, mind you), a factor of a good surround sound mix for me is that you can't remove the rears or fronts without something majorly substantial being gone or lacking from the song as a result. And that release has it in spades, with the rears essentially carrying the same weight as the fronts throughout playback.

Something about how the surround sound is mixed is just so natural too, like I arrived in an alternate dimension where quad became the mixing standard. Perhaps someone else can put into words better what I'm thinking here? I can't quite pinpoint why it sounds that way to me.

 

[fredblue]

I find it hard to put into words, but there's something about the Isley quads that is distinctly different from other quads I've heard. Maybe it's the instruments not being as hard panned as other quads? I'm not sure. It definitely feels less segmented than some other mixes I've heard. (By "segmented", I mean a clear delineation between the rears and the fronts that creates a sense of dissonance in the music itself.)

Even though I have issues with segmentation I noted, a factor of a good surround sound mix for me is that you can't remove the rears or fronts without something majorly substantial being gone or lacking from the song as a result. And that release has it in spades, with the rears essentially carrying the same weight as the fronts throughout playback.

Something about how the surround sound is mixed is just so natural too, like I arrived in an alternate dimension where quad became the mixing standard. Perhaps someone else can put into words better what I'm thinking here? I can't quite pinpoint why it sounds that way to me.

short on time as back at work in ooh 25 mins but i'll do my best to summarise what i think maybe a couple of factors contributing to the phenomenon you are experiencing;

1.) some of the Isley Quad mixes (at least 1 of the albums, "The Heat Is On" and i suspect "Live It Up" as well) for some reason appear to be from SQ matrix encoded sources.

a theory i've seen touted on QQ is that discrete sources never existed for the mixes in the first place. the Quads in question were mixed and output directly to an SQ encoder for some reason, rather than being simultaneously output in 4-channel discrete and SQ-encoded 2-channel, as was the case for the vast majority of Quads released on labels under the CBS umbrella, one of which was The Isley's T-Neck label.

2.) something they used to call the "Blend" or Blending. this was where channel separation in a mix was diminished, mainly but not always for decoding purposes, sometimes it would be a conscious decision by the mix engineer.

the upshot for such mixes is there will never be the level of Front to Back separation that can be achieved with a discrete source.

the end result however can feel somewhat smoother and more open with a bigger room size to the Surround soundfield than a discrete presentation may create.

anyway that's my two pennuth, i've gtg, i'll post back with more on these new SACDs later on

 

[jhw59]

I'm not voting yet as my first listen to disc 1 wasn't too serious-cooking dinner. That said, I can't say I was that impressed with 3+3, compressed and I thought I heard dropout???? I know this album pretty well as I've had the standard issue cd for years which sounded ok. To be continued... Surround on 3+3 was ok, not a lot of rear info but adequate, I just thought this would sound better.

 

[sjcorne]

Like @fredblue, I've bought all the quad LPs and listened to various tape conversions over the years. None of them can compare with this set. Great mixes, great sound, great value.

Review over at IAA: https://immersiveaudioalbum.com/the-isley-brothers-33-live-it-up-go-for-your-guns-4-0-quadraphonic/

 

[peloton]

Like @fredblue, I've bought all the quad LPs and listened to various tape conversions over the years. None of them can compare with this set. Great mixes, great sound, great value.

Review over at IAA: https://immersiveaudioalbum.com/the-isley-brothers-33-live-it-up-go-for-your-guns-4-0-quadraphonic/

Thanks for the link to that thorough review of DV's excellent release of these classic Isley Brothers releases. I've even been able to turn my younger gen Z son onto some of their stuff.

 

[~dave~~wave~]

This week, the Rock's Backpages podcast interview is with Black Rock Coalition director of operations Darrell M. McNeill, author of a new 33 1/3 study of the Isley Brothers' mighty 1973 album 3+3.
https://www.rocksbackpages.com/Podcast/Episode/e183





The 33-1/3 series of short paperback books focusing on classic albums has been going for nearly 20 years now. This lastest edition pulls no punches on the significance of the Isleys and this record.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0CHLFQ5SP

The Amazon book listing has a "look inside" feature.
The quotes below are claimed as fair use of copyrighted material for historic & scholarly purposes.

"The following statement is made with full expectation of
derision and backlash in pop culture's Kangaroo Court
evident truth: to wit,
The Isley Brothers are, indisputably,
America's longest-tenured, most venerable, active rock and roll group.
Not R&B, nor funk, nor soul group.
Rock and roll group.

This is not hyperbole. This is not opinion.
This is an uncontestable fact.
Deal with it.

The Isleys had million-sellers in 1961 with "Twist and
Shout," and in 1966 with "This Old Heart of Mine." They
launched Jimi Hendrix to stardom. Their songs have been
covered by icons like The Beatles, The Doobie Brothers,
The Yardbirds, Whitney Houston, and Robert Palmer.
Their anthem, "It's Your Thing" won a Grammy in 1970.
Alongside original hits like "Freedom," "Lay Away," and
"Work to Do," they boast rich reinterpretations of rock
standards, like "It's Too Late," "Lay, Lady, Lay" "Fire and
Rain, even scoring a Top Ten hit with Steven Stills "Love
the One You're With."

In the 1970s, the Isleys had ten successive gold, platinum,
or double platinum albums: Givin' It Back; Brother, Brother,
Brother; 3+3; Live It Up; The Heat Is On; Harvest for the
World; Go for Your Guns; Showdown; Go All the Way; and
Grand Slam.
They were inducted by Little Richard into the
Rock and Roll Hall of Fame in 1992.
The Isleys have releases
on all three major labels (Warner, Sony, and Universal),
have charted hits in eight decades and Top 40 million-sellers in
at least six.

No other artist in history, Black, White, Purple,
Plaid, or Polka Dot, can make that claim.

In 2014, they won a Grammy Lifetime Achievement Award.
Neil Strauss of the New York Times observed,
"In the mercurial world of pop music,
surviving while remaining relevant can be a form of
genius. This makes The Isley Brothers ... as close to genius
as any other pop act."

The group sold over 18,000,000 albums in the United
States alone, with ten original albums shipping over one
million units each....

3+3, The Album That Threatened to Change the Game

The run-up to 1973 had afforded the Isleys a respectable, if not always consistent,
fifteen-year career:... But they lacked the watershed moment
that would firmly ensconce them in the rock firmament.
Then in July, the floodgates finally burst open: heralded by the
classic "That Lady,"' The Isley Brothers 3+3 firmly established
the group among elite circles.

It was the first of eight successive platinum albums;
their career and legend thereafter solidified
(Billboard Black albums #2; Billboard pop albums #8, two
million copies sold, and twenty weeks on the charts)." It was a
rare record by a Black act that hit urban, rock, and pop crowds
equally, despite the chasm between Black and White formats
and audiences. Even some AOR stations put it in rotation.
But the rock establishment threw every disqualifier at the
Isleys, barely couched as "race-neutral" critique, oblivious to
the paradox of White artists with sonically comparable work
(Elton John, Leon Russell, Bachman-Turner-Overdrive, Hall
& Oates, Credence Clearwater Revival, Bob Seger, Chicago,
et al.)..."

 

[Q-Eight]

1.) some of the Isley Quad mixes (at least 1 of the albums, "The Heat Is On" and i suspect "Live It Up" as well) for some reason appear to be from SQ matrix encoded sources.

a theory i've seen touted on QQ is that discrete sources never existed for the mixes in the first place. the Quads in question were mixed and output directly to an SQ encoder for some reason, rather than being simultaneously output in 4-channel discrete and SQ-encoded 2-channel, as was the case for the vast majority of Quads released on labels under the CBS umbrella, one of which was The Isley's T-Neck label.

It's stated on the rear of "The Heat is On" that it comes from an SQ master and decoded. So, we can put that rumour to bed. It is SQ.

I'm going to back up your theory that "Live it Up" is as well. While the opening track is very discrete and if SQ decoders back in the day could pull that off, SQ would have been the victor of the Four-Channel format war. However, have a listen to "Need a little taste of Love" and there is some hard-core pumping happening in the back channels. Through the first section of the song, my ears can't exactly tell what's going on. It might be some low guitar chords being played, but on my Quad-scope you can clearly watch the rear channels rhythmically collapsing from discrete stereo to mono. Around the 2m30s part, guitars appear in the rear channels and once again, when those guitars hit, it's discrete stereo, but then it collapses to mono until those guitars play again. It's actually quite distracting. I guess this is a prime example of how some mixes worked great in SQ ("Live it up") and how other mixes just weren't compatible with the format ("Need a little taste of Love"). I noticed the Quad remix Engineer on this is a name I've not seen before: Kent Duncan.

I've seen/heard other mixes do this as well when I've played an SQ disc through my Tate. Can't think of the song title off the top of my head, but they'd be from Chases' self-titled album that do exactly this.