Left handed vs Right handed mixes

[Stephen W Tayler]

Hey - if an artist, producer or mixer decides to place any audio components off centre, that should be a choice. There is no fixed protocol that makes it necessary to make everything precise in that way.

Having said that, it has become quite normal to place certain elements in the centre of the stereo image, such as vocals, drums and bass. It always had a lot to do with compatibility for radio play in mono etc.

I think it should always be about what you want the listener to experience!

 

[ar surround]

Another thing I've noticed is that with certain recordings (The Moody Blues Blue World comes to mind) is that application of surround sound processing, such as Logic7 or SM Involve mode, can slightly move the front center image left or right. It probably has something to do with the way the decoders process out-of-phase information that tricks the ears' perception.

 

[par4ken]

Vocals sitting fully in one side of a stereo mix was a thing in the '70s. The overall energy was still usually balanced side to side even with that.

More often in the 60's, made from masters that only contained 3 or 4 tracks which were meant only to be mixed to mono. The Beatles early albums come to mind. Also those pre K-tel "24 Something Hits" albums, the singles had been done in mono but the album used stereo versions and quite a few of them had those side vocals. Myself and my friends used to rave about those mixes, we would remark "Wow ever good stereo!"

 

[ar surround]

Continuing...I think that the worst mixes are those where the vocals, bass and drums (for example) are so compacted into the center sound stage that the presentation comes across as cross-eyed mono recording. Then the remaining material in the left and right channels sound like separate recordings just tossed to each side of that mono image.

 

[par4ken]

Continuing...I think that the worst mixes are those where the vocals, bass and drums (for example) are so compacted into the center sound stage that the presentation comes across as cross-eyed mono recording. Then the remaining material in the left and right channels sound like separate recordings just tossed to each side of that mono image.

I agree, often that type of mix can be pulled apart by a quad decoder (QS surround mode), giving decent stereo across the front with the other bits popping up from behind.

 

[MidiMagic]

I know the history of this.

The problem is that stereo was not very standardized in the beginning,.

- Many early stereo experiments were in the form of simulcasts. A company with two stations played one channel on their FM station and the other on their AM station. But there was no standard of which channel was on AM and which was on FM. So you either needed to change the cables around or have a stereo reverse switch.

- I have a stereo preamp with a switch position for AM-FM stereo and a position for two FM tuners. It also has a stereo reverse switch. And my uncle and aunt had a 1959 compact stereo with two tuners (AM and FM) for AM-FM stereo and a stereo record changer. It also has a stereo reverse switch.

- The layout of where instruments are in a classical orchestra is standardized: treble instruments on the left, bass instruments on the right, strings in front, winds in the middle, brass in the back, percussion behind them. So you want the correct instruments on the correct speakers.

- They first made 45/45 stereo records in 1957 and the RIAA standardized it in 1958. But I have one stereo record with the violins on the right and cellos on the left. I also have a record that is phase reversed.

We had to wait until 1961 to have FM stereo. Before then, ten years of simulcasts were the only way to have stereo from radio.

 

[ar surround]

I agree, often that type of mix can be pulled apart by a quad decoder (QS surround mode), giving decent stereo across the front with the other bits popping up from behind.

Abso-@%$#^&-lutely! I had a good friend over and I played a few mixes like that in stereo and then flipped to Lexicon Logic7 (because that's what I had at the time.) His response was: "There's magic in that box."

 

[Bill B]

Has anyone noticed the left Twix bar has more caramel than the right Twix bar?

 

[furui_suterioo]

I listen to reverse stereo with headphones and alternate on a change of beat just to hear the difference in perception, sometimes will notice new sounds in reverse.

 

[jimfisheye]

You need the reverse switch so you can air drum properly when the drums are mixed audience perspective.

 

[par4ken]

I listen to reverse stereo with headphones and alternate on a change of beat just to hear the difference in perception, sometimes will notice new sounds in reverse.

Or just flip the phones around the other way!

 

[par4ken]

You need the reverse switch so you can air drum properly when the drums are mixed audience perspective.

Also with those classical releases it might make a difference if the listener wanted to imagine being in the orchestra or in the audience!

 

[J. PUPSTER]

Perhaps the Sansui people were clairvoyant and anticipated the release of the Ten Years After A Space In Time DVD (among others) with the front and back channels reversed.

I don't believe that would have been the correct fix for A Space In Time
("Shaken, not stirred" )

 

[par4ken]

Vocals sitting fully in one side of a stereo mix was a thing in the '70s. The overall energy was still usually balanced side to side even with that.

More often in the 60's. The masters that only contained 3 or 4 tracks were meant to be mixed to mono, the stereo versions were an after thought. Think of those early Beatles releases.

I don't believe that would have been the correct fix for A Space In Time
("Shaken, not stirred" )

Half turn would almost do it, it would correct front to back but left to right would be reversed! So we should have a front to rear reverse switch as well!

 

[tonyE]

Time for equipment manufactures to start including a stereo reverse switch again? A lot of early stereo's had such a switch!

I have a circa 74 LP of Santana Abraxas.

Black Magic Woman was cut reversed... L and R. The congas come in to the left and about three feet behind the speaker.

They didn't realize this until they went to "cut" the CD.

Funny, I learned of this when I went to a new Uber High End dealership that had just opened in '94. The dealer demo'd that CD. I told him it was backwards, and he apologized as he was still setting it up. Turns out I never got a change to go back as my son was born that evening...

 

[tonyE]

...

- The layout of where instruments are in a classical orchestra is standardized: treble instruments on the left, bass instruments on the right, strings in front, winds in the middle, brass in the back, percussion behind them. So you want the correct instruments on the correct speakers.

- They first made 45/45 stereo records in 1957 and the RIAA standardized it in 1958. But I have one stereo record with the violins on the right and cellos on the left. I also have a record that is phase reversed.

We had to wait until 1961 to have FM stereo. Before then, ten years of simulcasts were the only way to have stereo from radio.

I have seen, heard, live layouts where the 2nd violins are on the right, and the violas and cellos in between the violins! I forget, but I think it was with Eastern European orchestras.

 

[national-kid]

The “reverse” switch was only exceeded in complete uselessness by the “direction” control that Sansui fitted to its quad receivers. It allowed the user to rotate the speaker orientation in 90 degree steps-

View attachment 77655

I would imagine that every owner would have used that control exactly once - to find out what it did, whereupon thinking “oh, that’s interesting” never to ever touch it again.

Although it is exclusively for the QS method, it is a circuit that rotates the sound field in units of 45 degrees on the left and right sides, and in units of 22.5 degrees on the front and rear sides. (Because a common rotary switch has 12 contacts)
http://www.sky.hi-ho.ne.jp/odaka2/test/QS-rotate.pdf

 

[Soundfield]

Although it is exclusively for the QS method, it is a circuit that rotates the sound field in units of 45 degrees on the left and right sides, and in units of 22.5 degrees on the front and rear sides. (Because a common rotary switch has 12 contacts)
http://www.sky.hi-ho.ne.jp/odaka2/test/QS-rotate.pdf

I don't understand why you would want to do this.

 

[J. PUPSTER]

I don't understand why you would want to do this.

Maybe the Sansui boys were Precog. and it was designed to help folks decipher the Atmos mix of Tattoo You

 

[Soundfield]

Maybe the Sansui boys were Precog. and it was designed to help folks decipher the Atmos mix of Tattoo You

We've moved on from the pointlessness of the Sansui switch! I was asking why would someone want nationalkid's even more complex 45 & 22.5 degree switch for which he posted the circuit for above.