HiRez Poll Lennon, John - GIMME SOME TRUTH (The Ultimate Remixes) [Blu-Ray Audio (Dolby Atmos)]

[HomerJAU]

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Analyzed: John Lennon / Gimme Some Truth. (Dolby Atmos)
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DR Peak RMS Duration Track
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DR11 -0.02 dB -14.56 dB 3:22 01-Instant Karma! (We All Shine On)
DR12 -0.02 dB -13.65 dB 5:01 02-Cold Turkey
DR10 -0.19 dB -18.82 dB 3:47 03-Working Class Hero
DR12 -0.02 dB -17.08 dB 2:52 04-Isolation
DR10 -0.20 dB -19.65 dB 3:21 05-Love
DR13 -0.02 dB -16.32 dB 4:11 06-God
DR11 -0.02 dB -14.58 dB 3:23 07-Power To The People
DR12 -0.02 dB -15.59 dB 3:02 08-Imagine
DR12 -0.18 dB -16.69 dB 4:11 09-Jealous Guy
DR12 -0.02 dB -15.01 dB 3:15 10-Gimme Some Truth
DR12 -0.20 dB -18.38 dB 2:43 11-Oh My Love
DR12 -0.02 dB -14.93 dB 5:35 12-How Do You Sleep?
DR11 -0.19 dB -15.99 dB 4:16 13-Oh Yoko!
DR12 -0.02 dB -17.99 dB 4:05 14-Angela
DR13 -0.02 dB -16.39 dB 4:17 15-Come Together (Live)
DR13 -0.02 dB -16.93 dB 4:10 16-Mind Games
DR13 -0.02 dB -17.61 dB 3:21 17-Out Of The Blue
DR12 -0.02 dB -15.49 dB 3:47 18-I Know (I Know)
DR13 -0.02 dB -16.83 dB 3:27 19-Whatever Gets You Thru The Night
DR12 -0.02 dB -16.45 dB 4:37 20-Bless You
DR11 -0.02 dB -14.69 dB 4:46 21-#9 Dream
DR12 -0.02 dB -16.44 dB 4:38 22-Steel And Glass
DR12 -0.19 dB -17.88 dB 3:31 23-Stand By Me
DR11 -0.02 dB -15.19 dB 3:42 24-Angel Baby
DR13 -0.02 dB -18.11 dB 3:55 25-(Just Like) Starting Over
DR12 -0.02 dB -14.79 dB 3:59 26-I'm Losing You
DR13 -0.20 dB -19.63 dB 4:01 27-Beautiful Boy
DR13 -0.02 dB -16.93 dB 3:33 28-Watching The Wheels
DR12 -0.02 dB -16.74 dB 3:32 29-Woman
DR13 -0.02 dB -16.31 dB 2:34 30-Dear Yoko
DR12 -0.02 dB -15.06 dB 3:18 31-Every Man Has A Woman Who Loves Him
DR13 -0.02 dB -16.70 dB 3:34 32-Nobody Told Me
DR12 -0.02 dB -15.37 dB 4:05 33-I'm Stepping Out
DR10 -1.94 dB -19.13 dB 3:21 34-Grow Old With Me
DR12 -0.02 dB -15.54 dB 3:33 35-Happy Xmas (War Is Over)
DR14 -0.17 dB -17.52 dB 4:55 36-Give Peace A Chance
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Number of tracks: 36
Official DR value: DR12

Samplerate: 48000 Hz
Channels: 8
Bitrate: 6233 kbps
Codec: TRUEHD
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[mlrocker]

IT'S A MASTERPIECE on the songwriting, melody, and lyrics. I loved the stripped down recordings. EXCELLENT !

 

[MrSmithers]

This is an absolute classic! Listening to the Atmos mix - it's full, engaging and just superb...

So much content... Wow! Whilst the latter recorded songs are mixed more aggressively - there's still loads of really cool surround moments. Like I love how the harmonica moves around the room towards the end of 'Oh Yoko'.

Everything sounds so crisp and clear. And perfectly mixed together. It's just bloody brilliant!

This is a really nice showcase for surround and a fitting tribute to the legend that is John Lennon...

A very solid 10.

PS - The box is also great. I love that they put in the letter to the Queen!

 

[JonUrban]

So, if you figure that the 5.1 mix rears are pretty much the 7.1 rears, which they look and appear to be listening on a computer with audio software, then the main difference I can see and hear with this release are as follows. Note, this has nothing to do with the Atmos algorithms or whatever an Atmos receiver/decoder does with whats ever in these files.

This is strictly 5.1 vs 7.1 - (NOTE: You can click the wav pictures to see them in a larger view. The images are of the track "Whatever Gets You Through the Night")

DTS-HD 24/96 lossless 5.1: FL,FR,C,LFE,SL,SR
Equal to the 7.1 corresponding channels, but the rears are 6-8 dB lower in volume


Dolby Digital 24/48 lossy 5.1: FL,FR,C,LFE,SL,SR
Equal to the 7.1 corresponding channels, but all channels are 6-8 db lower in volume


Dolby TrueHD 24/48 lossless 7.1: FL,FR,C,LFE, SidesL, SidesR, SL,SR
All channels at the same reference level except the side channels, which are at least 8 dB lower in volume than the other channels



So what I don't get is why the differences in the volume levels? It would appear that the early postings indicating that the Dolby Digital 5.1 sounded better than the DTS 5.1 is because the level of the rear channels is equal to the levels of the fronts. This would obviously present a better, level surround audio field.

The other thing I can't figure out is that the side channels in almost every 7.1 Atmos rip I have seen are always a significant decibel level lower than the other channels. Maybe that's what the Atmos receivers need, but what does an early model 7.1 receiver do? Play these channels at a very low volume?

Very strange.

So, if you seem to be unhappy with the DTS 5.1, crank your rears up 6-8 dB* and listen again, especially to the later tracks because they have a really good surround mix. If you haven't listened to the Dolby 5.1, or can't, try this.

It's great that the Atmos fans have this wonderful disc, but there are a lot more of us non-Atmos types that still deserve to hear this thing the proper way.

* - As discovered below, not every song needs this much boost in the rears. Let your ears be the judge

 

[DisneySpirit]

Would have been a 10 but the DAE front up firing speaker decode issue needs to be corrected with a replacement BD ASAP so and 8 for now.

 

[admsh]

So, if you figure that the 5.1 mix rears are pretty much the 7.1 rears, which they look and appear to be listening on a computer with audio software, then the main difference I can see and hear with this release are as follows. Note, this has nothing to do with the Atmos algorithms or whatever an Atmos receiver/decoder does with whats ever in these files.

This is strictly 5.1 vs 7.1 - (NOTE: You can click the wav pictures to see them in a larger view. The images are of the track "Whatever Gets You Through the Night")

DTS-HD 24/96 lossless 5.1: FL,FR,C,LFE,SL,SR
Equal to the 7.1 corresponding channels, but the rears are 6-8 dB lower in volume
View attachment 57762

Dolby Digital 24/48 lossy 5.1: FL,FR,C,LFE,SL,SR
Equal to the 7.1 corresponding channels, but all channels are 6-8 db lower in volume
View attachment 57763

Dolby TrueHD 24/48 lossless 7.1: FL,FR,C,LFE, SidesL, SidesR, SL,SR
All channels at the same reference level except the side channels, which are at least 8 dB lower in volume than the other channels

View attachment 57764

So what I don't get is why the differences in the volume levels? It would appear that the early postings indicating that the Dolby Digital 5.1 sounded better than the DTS 5.1 is because the level of the rear channels is equal to the levels of the fronts. This would obviously present a better, level surround audio field.

The other thing I can't figure out is that the side channels in almost every 7.1 Atmos rip I have seen are always a significant decibel level lower than the other channels. Maybe that's what the Atmos receivers need, but what does an early model 7.1 receiver do? Play these channels at a very low volume?

Very strange.

So, if you seem to be unhappy with the DTS 5.1, crank your rears up 8 dB and listen again, especially to the later tracks because they have a really good surround mix. If you haven't listened to the Dolby 5.1, or can't, try this.

It's great that the Atmos fans have this wonderful disc, but there are a lot more of us non-Atmos types that still deserve to hear this thing the proper way.

Very strange indeed, however, simply cranking up the rears doesn't sound to me like the intended mix. One example: the "John" whispers on #9 Dream are much too loud this way. It does make for a much more satisfying listening experience, so that's what I'm doing (I increased by 6 dB, 8 is just too much for me here). Mixed feeling about this, so not ready to vote in the poll, and maybe it's time I upgraded to Atmos in my office...

 

[JonUrban]

Very strange indeed, however, simply cranking up the rears doesn't sound to me like the intended mix. One example: the "John" whispers on #9 Dream are much too loud this way. It does make for a much more satisfying listening experience, so that's what I'm doing (I increased by 6 dB, 8 is just too much for me here). Mixed feeling about this, so not ready to vote in the poll, and maybe it's time I upgraded to Atmos in my office...

Intersting that you bring that one up. I checked it out and on that song, the rears are only about 3dB lower. Most bizarre. Here's the DTS 5.1 on top, the DD 5.1 on the bottom. You can see the rears in the DTS are almost at the right levels to begin with. They're all not like this. (Click the image to see it full size)

You can see if you in fact did +8 dB you would "blow out the rears!"

 

[HomerJAU]

So what I don't get is why the differences in the volume levels? It would appear that the early postings indicating that the Dolby Digital 5.1 sounded better than the DTS 5.1 is because the level of the rear channels is equal to the levels of the fronts. This would obviously present a better, level surround audio field.

It’s not clear to me but I assume that any system that has a TrueHD decoder would play the TrueHD core not the Dolby Digital 5.1 lossy core. I assume this is also when a user has their system set to 5.1. The Dolby Digital core mix is only played if the decoder can’t decode TrueHD. (Still an assumption). If the user has TrueHD configured for 5.1 you get a lossless 7.1 downmix to 5.1.

The Disc menu only gives the choice of DTS-HDMA 5.1 or Atmos. So if my assumption above is correct users with TrueHD will never hear the Dolby Digital 5.1 mix.

Current consumer PC audio tools can only ‘see‘ the core audio streams (DD or TrureHD) so users get to choose which to hear, but playing the disc you don’t get that option (unless it’s authored into the menu, but since the Dolby decoder takes care of all this that audio option is not needed).

(This is another post that will get moved soon...)

 

[EricKalet]

It’s not clear to me but I assume that any system that has a TrueHD decoder would play the TrueHD core not the Dolby Digital 5.1 lossy core. I assume this is also when a user has their system set to 5.1. The Dolby Digital core mix is only played if the decoder can’t decode TrueHD. (Still an assumption). If the user has TrueHD configured for 5.1 you get a lossless 7.1 downmix to 5.1.

The Disc menu only gives the choice of DTS-HDMA 5.1 or Atmos. So if my assumption above is correct users with TrueHD will never hear the Dolby Digital 5.1 mix.

Current consumer PC audio tools can only ‘see‘ the core audio streams (DD or TrureHD) so users get to choose which to hear, but playing the disc you don’t get that option (unless it’s authored into the menu, but since the Dolby decoder takes care of all this that audio option is not needed).

(This is another post that will get moved soon...)

You are correct:

True HD—> plays at True HD whether system is configured for 5.1, 7.1, 7.1.2 or 7.1.4. The algorithm does all the work to figure out what sounds go where when downmixing from Atmos to 7.1 or 5.1.

A non compatible decoder, i.e. an older AVR sans True HD will only detect the DD lossy 7.1 or 5.1.

 

[marpow]

I voted 9. I listened via the Blu Ray disc played through my Panasonic player. Screen menu is plain and simple works great.
I listened to the ATMOS version, 5.1 on the floor and 4 in ceiling speakers, one sub.
I listened at modest volume 55db.
As I learn to listen to the new for me experience of ATMOS I would call this entire 2 hour 18 minute marathon, immersive.
In general the entire mix is on the tame side and maybe except for a few brief moments the height speakers are certainly not discrete. The floor speakers are not that wild either. But everything has it's moments. At the end of Oh Yoko, track 13 has the harmonica swirling around in the heights.
Speaking of Yoko, the next track Angela, her voice just shines, best I ever heard from her.
But, put it all together it was a beautiful listening experience, fully immersed, and the clarity, oh the clarity and John's vocals are paramount.
In the book notes about the goal of the new mix, Yoko says she really wanted John's vocals to be the star of the show, mission accomplished.
While I was listening I thought would John be proud of this release, most certainly he would.
Size of package and content is a 10.
This is a highly enjoyable release, probably even perfect.
I am new to ATMOS so the reason for the 9, I am hoping for that wild surround music experience, that I might not find until I pop a BD-V HD Atmos movie in the tray.

 

[texquad]

I was a sceptic when I heard about this because I was underwhelmed with the Imagine set but this release proved me wrong. I really like this although as much as I like Lennon some of this material doesn't hold up well for me. The interesting thing is some of the albums that I never owned specifically Mind Games and Walls & Bridges have some nice tracks that I wasn't familiar with and even some that I'm very familiar with sound new again. Before I made my purchase I'd read reviews elsewhere where they said they didn't like the mixes or overall sound but I'm really enjoying this and only wish that I felt this good about the Imagine box.

 

[elmer]

My set-up will only accomodate 5.1 DTS HD MA or a mixdown from the Atmos core of Dolby Tru HD 7.1 to 5.1. After a bit of fiddling around I found the DTS HD MA @ 96/24 to have a bit more clarity and depth of field to the 48/24 Dolby Tru HD mix down. The rears on the Dolby mix down were louder but I found that a bit distracting after awhile. From Mind Games on, the quality of recording and discreteness of mix really took off (for me at least).

One small niggle on the authoring - the disc starts playing immediately while defaulting to stereo. I have to pause and re-select my preferred stream. Not a deal breaker and certainly not enough of a bother to give this anything less than a 10.

 

[bktouchstone]

Wasn't that sure about buying this, though I finally did. Not going to participate in this poll because I have decided I am just not a big enough fan of Lennon's post-Beatles career to give this the time and listening sufficient, even braving possible bed sores, to properly evaluate. I do enjoy most of his "hits" with the exception of "Whatever Gets You Through the Night," and maybe one or two others. My guess is all the Beatles' main songwriters underestimated how difficult life would be without the other geniuses to help them finish and arrange their songs, hence the erratic song quality most of them seemed to have experienced solo. I did find one or two interesting moments, for example "Every Man Has a Woman Who Loves Him" could have been a Talking Heads song with just some minor tweaks. Overall I wasn't terribly impressed with the surround experience after one listen so I emerged from that thinking 7-ish or 8-ish for the Atmos versions. Like the Imagine set, I can see my listening dropping off to zero when I start to think "I really should play it more but there's not a lot of songs I like; I will have to open the box, find the blu ray, get it out, put the box somewhere, don't lose the stuff inside, put the disc in the player, start it, set it to Atmos, restart it...." Definitely a problem I won't be asking the government to solve, but still your brain builds up these little obstacles....and then you just put in another artist's disc and hit play.

High points for me were: Imagine, #9 Dream, Oh Yoko, Starting Over, Woman, Watching the Wheels, Nobody Told Me, and the afore-mentioned Every Man Has a Woman Who Loves Him. And Happy Xmas.

I wish Paul McCartney was focusing on 5.1 mixes for his Archive series. But maybe not. Beatles 5.1s have been a little spotty and his surrounds of Band on the Run and Venus/Mars are unsatisfying.

This is a great gift for John Lennon fans, and for those folks I could not be happier! The surround doesn't add much to the impact of the music, but the resulting increased fidelity given the recordings is well worth it.

 

[skherbeck]

I'm still working my way through all these tunes, but listening to the DTS 5.1 mix with the front channels reduced by 2-4 decibels depending on the song sounds really good to me. As others have said, the early tunes don't benefit from surround mixes as much as the later ones. I'm not sure why, but the low end was a little overpowering for me on a few songs so I had to adjust the LFE channel at times. Many of these will make it to my surround playlist!

 

[perzon57]

I've been through this once in two seating's in Atmos.I like it a lot because of all the good songs.The early songs has the weaker mixes and some has overpowering bass.Had to to turn down my subs by 3db.Many of the later songs has better mixes and I'm really pleased overall.Will listen again today and tomorrow before I vote.

 

[perzon57]

Just finished listening for the second time in Atmos..The music is very good,the mixes are OK to good and the book is very good.Gave it 9.

 

[Toto4Ever]

Listened through once, Dolby Atmos, as said. Really enjoyed it, considering there's 18 songs i've NEVER heard. Certainly worth a 9 at this point for the mix.

 

[admsh]

Sounds like you gave us the truth. (see what I did there). As much of a Lennon fan as I am, I didn't buy this (not yet anyway). I was afraid it would be a lackluster mix (based on the Imagine official studio mixes) and the track selection. I'm going to wait for a price drop.

That's absolutely not the case. When the rears are set properly, the mix on most of these songs is as adventurous as The McCartney Years. There's a ton going on in the rears, especially on all the later tracks (from Mind Games on). It's an absolute pleasure and also quite surprising. Granted, having to raise the rears by 6-8dB before playing this album is annoying, and honestly feels more like a authoring mistake, it's a minor price to pay. Yes, it's mind boggling, but if you like the music, you'll LOVE this release.

 

[perzon57]

That's absolutely not the case. When the rears are set properly, the mix on most of these songs is as adventurous as The McCartney Years. There's a ton going on in the rears, especially on all the later tracks (from Mind Games on). It's an absolute pleasure and also quite surprising. Granted, having to raise the rears by 6-8dB before playing this album is annoying, and honestly feels more like a authoring mistake, it's a minor price to pay. Yes, it's mind boggling, but if you like the music, you'll LOVE this release.

I did not feel the need to raise the volume for the rears,even if some tracks are a little weak in that department.But 6-8 db sounds way to much.Overall I enjoy it very much as it is.

 

[alansanchez86]

it was created after the last update on 18 September; for example, you won't find a thread for Seeds of Love either. i'm sure there will be an update soon! Stay Surrounded, Comrade!

Oh, wasn't aware of such update. Hopefully they'll get added.