I have only one word for this compilation... HolySchitt! It sounds amazing, I had no issues with Atmos, also understanding that 87% of this release was recorded in the late 60's early 70's. I must say that listening to Truth brought me to tears several times as he speaks as the way things are, love for his wife & son, coming out of the Beatles phenomena of being imprisoned by his own fame, coming to terms with himself as well as his experience as a global icon. He truly did listen to Zimmerman when he said to John that your music has to say something. I give Truth a 12 of 10 stars!
HiRez Poll Lennon, John - GIMME SOME TRUTH (The Ultimate Remixes) [Blu-Ray Audio (Dolby Atmos)]
- Thread starter rtbluray
- Start date
Help Support QuadraphonicQuad:
So, after much listening and scrutinizing, I have decided that this release gets a '10' from me. I almost gave it a '9' because of the whole levels thing, and that is something that bothers me - mostly because someone without Atmos would generally choose DTS over DD and in doing so would be discouraged a bit by the mix, but when I listen to the DD and the way this whole thing was put together, I have to admit I think it's freaking great. Especially the later songs.
John Lennon's vocals have always been sort of hidden in his songs that have a lot of production elements. It's almost like he didn't like his own voice. Of course, the songs from POB are mostly just him and piano or guitar, so that does not apply for those tunes, but my point is for many of these songs this is the clearest and most up front I've ever heard his vocals on many of these tunes.
The songs from Double Fantasy and Milk and Honey have excellent surround mixes, not of the gimmicky type the stereo freaks love to trash, but of a nice, spread out, surround sound field that let's you absorb the entire production of each song to the fullest. Getting to hear a few tunes from "Mind Games", allegedly readied for Q8 release then scrapped, is a treat for me. The mixes on these tunes are quite good considering the age of the masters.
Even the songs from POB (Where is "Mother?") have a larger presence than before, not quite cavernous, but let's just say more full. Again, making the vocal the star of the track.
So, my vote here is on the DD 5.1. Not the Atmos, Not the DTS, but the DD. You can probably take the DTS and adjust it, take the Atmos 7.1 and manipulate it on your DAW, but in my opinion, if you just take the as-is DD and listen to what the intent of the release is in that state, you have a freaking '10'.
I lived with these tunes from the day they were released. Bought the POB singles when they came out, then every JL release through the '70s, and was thrilled when he resurfaced in 1980 with Double Fantasy. Many of these tunes I have over heard, consequently I have not listened to them in 20-30 years. Hearing then on this release allowed me to enjoy them once again and not get fatigued from song-burned-out-in-the-brain rejection.
36 5.1 classic, best-of, tunes for $70 with a book and all, well, that's a '10'.
Your results may vary.
So for 5.1 non-Atmos folks: as John would say, "Play it Loud". Jon will add, "Play the DD (Dolby Digital)"
John Lennon's vocals have always been sort of hidden in his songs that have a lot of production elements. It's almost like he didn't like his own voice. Of course, the songs from POB are mostly just him and piano or guitar, so that does not apply for those tunes, but my point is for many of these songs this is the clearest and most up front I've ever heard his vocals on many of these tunes.
The songs from Double Fantasy and Milk and Honey have excellent surround mixes, not of the gimmicky type the stereo freaks love to trash, but of a nice, spread out, surround sound field that let's you absorb the entire production of each song to the fullest. Getting to hear a few tunes from "Mind Games", allegedly readied for Q8 release then scrapped, is a treat for me. The mixes on these tunes are quite good considering the age of the masters.
Even the songs from POB (Where is "Mother?") have a larger presence than before, not quite cavernous, but let's just say more full. Again, making the vocal the star of the track.
So, my vote here is on the DD 5.1. Not the Atmos, Not the DTS, but the DD. You can probably take the DTS and adjust it, take the Atmos 7.1 and manipulate it on your DAW, but in my opinion, if you just take the as-is DD and listen to what the intent of the release is in that state, you have a freaking '10'.
I lived with these tunes from the day they were released. Bought the POB singles when they came out, then every JL release through the '70s, and was thrilled when he resurfaced in 1980 with Double Fantasy. Many of these tunes I have over heard, consequently I have not listened to them in 20-30 years. Hearing then on this release allowed me to enjoy them once again and not get fatigued from song-burned-out-in-the-brain rejection.
36 5.1 classic, best-of, tunes for $70 with a book and all, well, that's a '10'.
Your results may vary.
So for 5.1 non-Atmos folks: as John would say, "Play it Loud". Jon will add, "Play the DD (Dolby Digital)"
I would suggest playing the 7.1 DolbyTrueHD core from the atmos mix, which can be read by most of the old BD players and is automatically downmixed to 5.1 by the AVR. Unless that's what you mean by DD.So, after much listening and scrutinizing, I have decided that this release gets a '10' from me. I almost gave it a '9' because of the whole levels thing, and that is something that bothers me - mostly because someone without Atmos would generally choose DTS over DD and in doing so would be discouraged a bit by the mix, but when I listen to the DD and the way this whole thing was put together, I have to admit I think it's freaking great. Especially the later songs.
John Lennon's vocals have always been sort of hidden in his songs that have a lot of production elements. It's almost like he didn't like his own voice. Of course, the songs from POB are mostly just him and piano or guitar, so that does not apply for those tunes, but my point is for many of these songs this is the clearest and most up front I've ever heard his vocals on many of these tunes.
The songs from Double Fantasy and Milk and Honey have excellent surround mixes, not of the gimmicky type the stereo freaks love to trash, but of a nice, spread out, surround sound field that let's you absorb the entire production of each song to the fullest. Getting to hear a few tunes from "Mind Games", allegedly readied for Q8 release then scrapped, is a treat for me. The mixes on these tunes are quite good considering the age of the masters.
Even the songs from POB (Where is "Mother?") have a larger presence than before, not quite cavernous, but let's just say more full. Again, making the vocal the star of the track.
So, my vote here is on the DD 5.1. Not the Atmos, Not the DTS, but the DD. You can probably take the DTS and adjust it, take the Atmos 7.1 and manipulate it on your DAW, but in my opinion, if you just take the as-is DD and listen to what the intent of the release is in that state, you have a freaking '10'.
I lived with these tunes from the day they were released. Bought the POB singles when they came out, then every JL release through the '70s, and was thrilled when he resurfaced in 1980 with Double Fantasy. Many of these tunes I have over heard, consequently I have not listened to them in 20-30 years. Hearing then on this release allowed me to enjoy them once again and not get fatigued from song-burned-out-in-the-brain rejection.
36 5.1 classic, best-of, tunes for $70 with a book and all, well, that's a '10'.
Your results may vary.
So for 5.1 non-Atmos folks: as John would say, "Play it Loud". Jon will add, "Play the DD"
I'd also love to know your comparison between DTS vs. DD or Atmos. I'm curious to know whether these are radically different mixes or it's a simple matter of volume for the rear speakers.
kokishin
Active Member
I just changed my vote from an 8 to a 9.
The reason for the change is that I finally was able to get Atmos content from my four upfiring Dolby Atmos enabled speakers by modifying my system. Prior to the change to my system, I was only getting Atmos content from my upfiring SD speakers; no content from my upfiring FD speakers.
The change to my system required adding a mixer and creating a faux 7.1.4 setup with FD+BD upfiring speakers. Details here:
SPOTLIGHT - New John Lennon collection, remixed in 5.1 surround & Dolby Atmos out in October!
tboomer
New member
I voted 8 and listen with an Atmos 5.1.2 front upfiring config.
I AM wondering what happened to the horns in "Steel and Glass"... is that intentional, or were some tracks lost? Kind of suspicious... I always enjoy horns in surround mixes.. they often appear in the rears and jump things up it seems to me. (Note that the horns are missing in the stereo mix as well.)
I AM wondering what happened to the horns in "Steel and Glass"... is that intentional, or were some tracks lost? Kind of suspicious... I always enjoy horns in surround mixes.. they often appear in the rears and jump things up it seems to me. (Note that the horns are missing in the stereo mix as well.)
Last edited:
Wow. I can't Imagine the song without the horns.
Ranasakawa
1K Club - QQ Shooting Star
I don't hear much in the rear speakers. It is a 6 from me. Not happy
Which audio stream are you listening to?There are big differences in rear output level between them.
Do you have a Atmos setup?
Oh just wonderful. So you’re telling us that we don’t even get a decent quality hi-res stereo remix along with a butchered DTS 5.1 layer? Mine is sitting still unopened. Maybe I should just send it back.
jimfisheye
2K Club - QQ Super Nova
- Joined
- Jan 8, 2010
- Messages
- 3,516
That's what I'm telling you, yes.
I could try to be really fair. Put the clues and evidence aside (the raw mix in the dd stream that is). Based just on listening like you're supposed to do.
It is loud but the initial impression is of high fidelity and there's nothing overtly harsh. It doesn't sound like a volume war CD outright.
The crushed 5.1 mix sounds like a ho hum front heavy surround-ish mix at first listen. Again, with hi-fi and not overtly harsh. It insidiously sounds legit and pro but just not that good of a mix ultimately. I'm repeating that first impression to illustrate how much the actual mix was altered and damaged. Because the raw mix in the dd stream is full fidelity, big and warm, discrete and with rears every bit as active as the fronts. Just very well done. The mix engineer would be right to be furious if he heard the mastering error.
My point there is that I would expect the stereo version to be every bit as compromised. We don't have a copy of the unmolested stereo to compare with.
It's still worth considering this set for only the 5.1 mix in the dd stream. It's a really good mix! "only"... You don't get stuff like this every day. And how many times have we reached further for even more damaged copies? Especially the old formats that people share to their best ability.
Still a humiliating defeat of a release!
Recall and collector's item?
Frogmort
1K Club - QQ Shooting Star
Comparing the Atmos vs the 5.1DD on my 7.1 setup (non-Atmos but TrueHD 7.1), the Atmos sounds so much better in every way. Way better fidelity, clarity, even surround presence by quite a bit. I've compared listening to Atmos straight from the source on my 7.1 TrueHD setup compared to the summed-down 7.1 FLAC, and something is definitely lost in translation.
Agree 100%, even though on my 5-speaker system I still prefer the dedicated 5.1 mix. I'm sure the Atmos stream sounds good on an Atmos system, with ceiling speakers.
The DD 5.1 mix is nothing special and I wouldn't recommend it unless you can't playback the other lossless streams.
Isn't the DD 5.1 mix the 'dedicated 5.1 mix'?
From what I read, it's not a fold-down.
From what I read, it's not a fold-down.
Well, first of all, the DD has no limiting and is much lower in volume. It’s roughly 6 to 10dB quieter than the TrueHD core of the Atmos mix. The rear channels of the DD are different than a 5.1 fold-down of the 7.1. From my tests, it seems a matter of volume but not placement of instruments. In terms of EQ, differences are minimal and probably due to having a lossy vs lossless encoder. Going back to listening, I think that the limiting applied on the 5.1 mix is not that audible. At least, I wouldn’t call it a butchered mix. For now, I’m still convinced the lossless streams are the way to go. I can’t experience atmos but the dedicated DTS 5.1 sounds great on my system while the 7.1 is a bit unbalanced. It’s easy to notice that the rear channels are correct on the DTS 5.1. There are at least two reasons. The first is that the 2018 mixes from Imagine were similar if not the same. Second, listen to the end of Cold Turkey, where there’s a panning from front to rear. That’s one of the spots where I notice the balance between front and rear is okay. Come together live is another good example. #9 Dream is a third example, where the balance between front and rear channels can be appreciated in the DTS 5.1 mix. Steel and Glass has also a lot of discrete elements in the rear channels and I don’t think they should be any louder. All the songs from Double Fantasy are also good. Having more stuff from the rear channels does not necessarily mean the mix is better. This compilation was mixed conservatively, so we can’t transform it into a better mix by simply raising the volume of the rear speakers. Bless you is probably the most obvious lost occasion of the bunch. It could have been a great surround track but it’s not. Just my opinion.
Last edited:
My vote is based on the DTS-MA 5.1 mix:
30% SURROUND MIX: 6*0.3=1.8. Overall, this is a conservative mix, but it’s nonetheless enjoyable. The surround experience gets better in the second half of the compilation. All the tracks from Double Fantasy sound great.
30% AUDIO FIDELITY - 8*0.3=2.4. Impressive fidelity, especially for the tracks from the early albums. In terms of sound quality, the tracks from Plastic Ono Band, Imagine and Walls and Bridges are revelatory. I’m marking this down to 8 because I would prefer a more relaxed mastering. Also, I think the bass is overdone, even though it’s not bloated. 8 is still a high mark.
30% CONTENT - 10*0.3=3. I’m voting 10 for the music. I keep going back to John Lennon’s work on a regular basis, and I’m enjoying this compilation a lot, despite the flaws.
10% OVERALL PACKAGE - 10*0.1=1. I love the format, the graphics. The book is great, a very nice surprise.
TOTAL: 8.2, rounded down to 8. I hope I’ll be able to listen to the Atmos mix in the future. For the moment, my thoughts are based on the DTS-MA 5.1 mix.
30% SURROUND MIX: 6*0.3=1.8. Overall, this is a conservative mix, but it’s nonetheless enjoyable. The surround experience gets better in the second half of the compilation. All the tracks from Double Fantasy sound great.
30% AUDIO FIDELITY - 8*0.3=2.4. Impressive fidelity, especially for the tracks from the early albums. In terms of sound quality, the tracks from Plastic Ono Band, Imagine and Walls and Bridges are revelatory. I’m marking this down to 8 because I would prefer a more relaxed mastering. Also, I think the bass is overdone, even though it’s not bloated. 8 is still a high mark.
30% CONTENT - 10*0.3=3. I’m voting 10 for the music. I keep going back to John Lennon’s work on a regular basis, and I’m enjoying this compilation a lot, despite the flaws.
10% OVERALL PACKAGE - 10*0.1=1. I love the format, the graphics. The book is great, a very nice surprise.
TOTAL: 8.2, rounded down to 8. I hope I’ll be able to listen to the Atmos mix in the future. For the moment, my thoughts are based on the DTS-MA 5.1 mix.
I gave it 9 based on listening to the Atmos mix.Love the music,the mix even though some track are heavy on the bass and some of the earlier tracks are a little weak in the surrounds.Very nice book too.
Your argument here jumps around quite a bit.
I know what the DD. 5.1 and DTS 5.1 look like. JonUrban has kindly provided many waveforms of those.
You said you 'prefer the dedicated 5.1 mix' The DD 5.1 apparently is a dedicated 5.1 mix, i.e. it is not derived from/reprocessed from another mix. You haven't presented any evidence to the contrary.
As for it vs the DTS 5.1, I have not seen reported evidence that the mix per se -- i.e., the placement of vocals and instruments in left/center/right, front/back space -- differs between the two. Thus if anything the DTS 5.1 seems to be a highly processed version of the DD 5.1 -- though not a case of simple compression applied across the board.
Two different dedicated 5.1 mixes for the two formats , DD and DTS , would be extremely unusual.
As for DD 5.1 vs 5.1 fold down of 7.1, that would be an apples to oranges comparison... unless you reported that the two were the *same*. In which case you could argue that the DD 5.1 is simply the fold-down of the 7.1, presented separately. But clearly they are not and it is not.
Can you (or has someone already) post waveforms of the TrueHD core of the Atmos mix? If it is 6-10dB louder than the DD in all channels, I suspect it is rather compressed?
I wrote two or three comments, plus an explanation of my vote (8), with no reference to the DD 5.1 mix. Compared to what I've been reading about this release being faulty, I've been pretty quiet! I'm just saying my opinion like you all do.
JonUrban has done a meticulous job, no doubt. But at the end of the day what matters is: have you heard the different surround mixes? The only fair comparison would be by level-matching different mixes and A/B them. That's what I've done before writing my comments.
You are right. All of these mixes should be dedicated mixes. By 'dedicated 5.1 mix' I was referring to the DTS-MA 5.1 mix. For me, the only way to access the DD 5.1 is through ripping the disc, otherwise, my player will playback the DolbyTrue 7.1 mix (downmixed to 5.1 by my AVR).
From my limited comparisons, I couldn't detect differences in the placement of instruments, so I also agree with you here. They are probably the same mix, but when the rear channels are higher in volume than the mix is by definition different. Certain instruments move towards the centre of the room, if not behind your ears. One mix has 2/3dB limiting, the other has full dynamics. So, I think it's fair to say they are different.
All of these comparisons are a little bit of the 'apples and oranges' style. They all present different levels for the rear channels and they are all different from one another. As long as one states the terms of the comparison I think there is no problem. The DD 5.1 stream is embedded in the Atmos stream, and will only be played if your player cannot playback the DolbyTrueHD core. So I guess it's fair to compare that to its bigger brother, the lossless 7.1 core. Others have done that, and have also reported back, either in this or another thread.
The DD is 6/10dB quieter (roughly) than the other mixes. Having said that, it doesn't peak above -6/7dB. So, limiting on the lossless tracks is limited to 2/3dB.
Since you asked, I'have done another round of comparisons. I can't say whether the DTS 5.1 is a highly-processed version of the DD 5.1 They are different tough, and I find easier to compare the mixes by isolating the front channels and compare the two (like I would do for comparing two stereo tracks).
This is below is Instant Karma! Front channels: the DTS 5.1, top, the DD 5.1, bottom. I've level matched them by referring to the RMS values. The difference is 13.67dB. But that's not the only difference. When John sings "we all shine on", it's loud and clear on the DTS, while it's quite on the DD 5.1 (vocals might be louder on the centre channel?). Claps are very low in volume on the DD 5.1, while they are loud and clear on the DTS (the stereo image is also bigger). Anyway, the volume isn't the only difference, that's for sure. There are internal differences in the balance between channels...
Now, let's have a look at the rear channels. Same song, DTS on top, DD on the bottom. I've used the same level-matching strategy (so the difference was 13.67dB). They are indeed different. What I'm hearing is mainly ambience and reverb on the DTS mix, with vocals and back vocals prominent during "we all shine on". A little bit of drums and the bass is present. On the DD 5.1 I'm hearing drums and bass since the beginning, they are heavier. However, I can also hear John's voice throughout. I don't know whether that's a deliberate choice, but makes the mix sound unbalanced to me. Loud vocals throughout on the rear channels? I don't like it, sorry, despite the better dynamics.
Last edited:
Similar threads
- Poll
- Sticky
- Poll
- Sticky
- Poll
- Sticky
- Poll
Latest posts
-
Tony Levin “Bringing It Down To The Bass” Dolby Atmos Released Sept 13- Latest: SomethingAnything
-
(2024-12) The Return of VHS (& Dolby Surround?)
- Latest: audiomaster
-
-
-
Flaming Lips Yoshimi Atmos Blu-ray out November 1st, 2024!- Latest: svengaleekie
-
