Listening to Now (In Surround) - Volume 2

[4-earredwonder]

Pray tell!

I had some work done in my listening room, Mike, and some of my carefully placed Shakti Holograms were moved which affects the overall sound. After a few minor adjustments ... WALLAH!

http://www.shakti-innovations.com/hallograph.htm

 

[edisonbaggins]

I had some work done in my listening room, Mike, and some of my carefully placed Shakti Holograms were moved which affects the overall sound. After a few minor adjustments ... WALLAH!

Nice! For me, the biggest factor for TWA 5.1 remix enjoyment, is just turning down the volume a few db, which you also mentioned.

 

[4-earredwonder]

Nice! For me, the biggest factor for TWA 5.1 remix enjoyment, is just turning down the volume a few db, which you also mentioned.

At the right listening level [to me every album has a RIGHT volume] it puts you smack dab in the studio with the fab four.......

Will have to try the same with Pepper ...........which was recorded 4 track [versus TWA which was recorded four and eight track].

 

[skherbeck]

Nice! For me, the biggest factor for TWA 5.1 remix enjoyment, is just turning down the volume a few db, which you also mentioned.

Same here... I used Audacity to turn down the volume at the flac level (some tracks needed more volume reduction than others, but that's a bit subjective)... love it!

(Specifically, I reduced the quieter songs a bit more (Julia, Blackbird, etc) and reduced "While My Guitar" a bit less to give it more impact. Saul Goodman.)

 

[fredblue]

GROOVY DANIEL's 5.1 remix of the Average White Band's debut album which he painstakingly transferred from a Warner/Atlantic QUADRADISC. Has to be heard to be believed. NO analogue artifacts whatsoever. And he's willing to send a copy on an exceedingly well done CD~R [in DTS] provided you have the original Quadradisc. PM Groovy Daniel. All he asks is that you review it. He's now working on the Eagles "One of these Nights."

IMO, it sounds like a remaster from a master tape. Separation is astounding and there is no bleed from front to rears.

5.1 remix??

 

[sjcorne]

GROOVY DANIEL's 5.1 remix of the Average White Band's debut album which he painstakingly transferred from a Warner/Atlantic QUADRADISC. Has to be heard to be believed. NO analogue artifacts whatsoever. And he's willing to send a copy on an exceedingly well done CD~R [in DTS] provided you have the original Quadradisc. PM Groovy Daniel. All he asks is that you review it. He's now working on the Eagles "One of these Nights."

IMO, it sounds like a remaster from a master tape. Separation is astounding and there is no bleed from front to rears.

Indeed- He really killed it. That Eagles LP always had fidelity problems (like most Asylum CD-4s), so let's hope he's up to the challenge!

 

[4-earredwonder]

Indeed- He really killed it. That Eagles LP always had fidelity problems (like most Asylum CD-4s), so let's hope he's up to the challenge!

Daniel alluded to the fact that ALL Warner/Atlantic Quadradiscs were off center and he had to manually enlarge [realign?] the hole in order to avoid 'wobble.' Never knew this but then again, haven't played my QS/SQ/CD~4 discs in many a moon.

But his painstaking process was truly a labor of love and the results do speak for themselves.

IMO, Jonathan, it restores a modicum of faith that the same could be done for those missing 70's master tapes from Universal which 'perished' in a fire or were tossed in the trash.

 

[4-earredwonder]

5.1 remix??

Adam, just PM Groovy Daniel and he'll send you a copy. You will love it. England will Swing ... yet again! BTW, I played it in QUAD on my main system and like Daniel, it's truly GROOVY!

To reiterate Daniel's process:

I’m really glad you liked it. It sounded great to me but I’ve been listening to it clinically for so long I’ve lost objectivity. I’m a “quadraphile” music lover who studied to be a recording engineer, but it’s nowadays just a hobby. I have a mini studio in my basement. The process is still evolving, but it goes like this:
1. Wet vacuum the Lp;
2. (For Warner/Elektra-Asylum/Atlantic titles that are always pressed off-center) Enlarge the center hole with a pair of scissors and then manually adjust the LP so the grooves are perfectly centered;
3. Digitally capture the playback at 1/2 speed using a conventional phono preamp, at 96kHz, 32 bit sample rate;
4. Within the digital domain, correct phase anomalies; de-click; de-crackle; re-sample the file to 192kHz, 32 bit sample rate (to make it normal speed); and apply RIAA curve adjustment EQ to correct 1/2 speed capture;
5. Play the file through a digital to analog converter, through an inverse RIAA preamp, to an outboard CD-4 demodulator;
6. Digitally capture the decoded 4 channels at 48kHz, 32 bit sample rate;
7. Within the digital domain again, apply various noise reduction tools to eliminate both vinyl and demodulation noise artifacts;
8. Tastefully and carefully process the file using an exciter to restore the “life” lost due to digital processing;
9. Apply EQ to duplicate to the extent practical the sonic signature of the best available recording (generally the most recent commercially remastered CD);
10. Scrupulously listen to each channel of each track for sonic aberrations. Check the aberration against the commercial CD to ensure that the “aberration” is truly a vinyl/CD-4 aberration and not something knowingly left in the master recording. If a true aberration, use digital software to correct. If correction isn’t possible, cut and paste a patch from elsewhere in the track, or from an adjacent track, or if all else fails from the stereo CD. Repeat until perfect.
11. Final EQ and listening tests.
It’s a very time consuming process that would make purists shutter. But it’s a labor of love. A lot of folks think analog is sacrosanct and LP playback should be presented naturally and uncorrupted. Bollocks. Although we all have fond memories of turntables and groove-drops, the truth is the LP is inherently sonically compromised, and you need to work the heck out of it to bring it up to modern expectations. I’m guessing that’s where the Rick Wakeman transfer fell short.

 

[fredblue]

Daniel alluded to the fact that ALL Warner/Atlantic Quadradiscs were off center and he had to manually enlarge [realign?] the hole in order to avoid 'wobble.' Never knew this but then again, haven't played my QS/SQ/CD~4 discs in many a moon.

But his painstaking process was truly a labor of love and the results do speak for themselves.

IMO, Jonathan, it restores a modicum of faith that the same could be done for those missing 70's master tapes from Universal which 'perished' in a fire or were tossed in the trash.

yes, he's right.. you wanna see the state of the hole on my Average White Band just to try and temper some of the w&f, a real eccentric pressing if ever i saw one (and i don't mean nutty!).

i hope not but the Groovy fellow you speak of may have a tougher time with OOTN.. my CD-4 of that one appeared to be in great shape but played like a dog no matter what i did, pop crackle betcha by golly wow and flutter the works.

as for Universal-owned material, we don't know what's actually missing (look at the stuff DV's found and licensed in the last couple of years, lots of Mauriat, Swingle Singers, Ray Davies/Button Down Brass.. and we know the Clapton's, BTO, Ohio Players, Steve Miller and Allman Brothers Quad masters were held at one point with all the DTS CDs, subsequent Give Me Strength set. etc) and besides many LPs of UMe owned "missing Quad material" would be QS, don't think that'd cut the mustard with buyers but i could be wrong.

 

[sjcorne]

To reiterate Daniel's process...

He probably didn't want that info available on the public forum...and it's prob best not to discuss trading conversions openly and risk angering the mods.

IMO, Jonathan, it restores a modicum of faith that the same could be done for those missing 70's master tapes from Universal which 'perished' in a fire or were tossed in the trash.

There are very few (if any) quad albums that haven't been transferred and preserved yet as far as I know. Now the results may vary, but some of the stuff out there is really impressive- even from the lowly Q8s you so often deride.

 

[4-earredwonder]

He probably didn't want that info available on the public forum...and it's prob best not to discuss trading conversions openly and risk angering the mods.



There are very few (if any) quad albums that haven't been transferred and preserved yet as far as I know. Now the results may vary, but some of the stuff out there is really impressive- even from the lowly Q8s you so often deride.

Jonathan, a lot of Universal [formerly A&M, ABC Dunhill QUAD masters] have been LOST to the ages through neglect, fires, etc. and perhaps the QUAD LPs which have survived could be candidates for transfer.

Regarding the LOWLY Q8s that 'I often deride....' Been there my friend and I also derided cassettes because anything which takes a 30/15 ips master tape and reduces it to respectively 3 3/4 and 1 7/8 i p s ...just aint kosher in my book. I also deride lossy formats such as DTS/Dolby Digital although on occasions I give credit where credit's due.

In 2019, if you can't 'conceivably' give us what's on the master tape and have the nerve to charge BIG BUCKS for the privilege ......... BULLSHIT. Look what the movies studios are doing ... painstakingly restoring ENTIRE MOTION PICTURES from the original camera negatives and giving us LOSSLESS DOLBY ATMOS in the process for pennies compared to so~called MUSIC REISSUES which are [sometimes] Neanderthal in comparison.

And the irony.....those same MOVIE STUDIOS own the MAJOR MUSIC CONGLOMERATES .... so what's up with THAT?

 

[fredblue]

Adam, just PM Groovy Daniel and he'll send you a copy. You will love it. England will Swing ... yet again! BTW, I played it in QUAD on my main system and like Daniel, it's truly GROOVY!

To reiterate Daniel's process:

I’m really glad you liked it. It sounded great to me but I’ve been listening to it clinically for so long I’ve lost objectivity. I’m a “quadraphile” music lover who studied to be a recording engineer, but it’s nowadays just a hobby. I have a mini studio in my basement. The process is still evolving, but it goes like this:
1. Wet vacuum the Lp;
2. (For Warner/Elektra-Asylum/Atlantic titles that are always pressed off-center) Enlarge the center hole with a pair of scissors and then manually adjust the LP so the grooves are perfectly centered;
3. Digitally capture the playback at 1/2 speed using a conventional phono preamp, at 96kHz, 32 bit sample rate;
4. Within the digital domain, correct phase anomalies; de-click; de-crackle; re-sample the file to 192kHz, 32 bit sample rate (to make it normal speed); and apply RIAA curve adjustment EQ to correct 1/2 speed capture;
5. Play the file through a digital to analog converter, through an inverse RIAA preamp, to an outboard CD-4 demodulator;
6. Digitally capture the decoded 4 channels at 48kHz, 32 bit sample rate;
7. Within the digital domain again, apply various noise reduction tools to eliminate both vinyl and demodulation noise artifacts;
8. Tastefully and carefully process the file using an exciter to restore the “life” lost due to digital processing;
9. Apply EQ to duplicate to the extent practical the sonic signature of the best available recording (generally the most recent commercially remastered CD);
10. Scrupulously listen to each channel of each track for sonic aberrations. Check the aberration against the commercial CD to ensure that the “aberration” is truly a vinyl/CD-4 aberration and not something knowingly left in the master recording. If a true aberration, use digital software to correct. If correction isn’t possible, cut and paste a patch from elsewhere in the track, or from an adjacent track, or if all else fails from the stereo CD. Repeat until perfect.
11. Final EQ and listening tests.
It’s a very time consuming process that would make purists shutter. But it’s a labor of love. A lot of folks think analog is sacrosanct and LP playback should be presented naturally and uncorrupted. Bollocks. Although we all have fond memories of turntables and groove-drops, the truth is the LP is inherently sonically compromised, and you need to work the heck out of it to bring it up to modern expectations. I’m guessing that’s where the Rick Wakeman transfer fell short.

i'm sure it's wonderful! at this point yet another conversion of the AWB Quad is kinda the last thing i need tbh Ralph.. i've two copies of the Q8 & CD-4 of my own i've fiddle-farted around with (not to much avail but some of the process was fun!) and have great transfers from both Q8 & CD-4 done by some of the most talented Quad conversion people going/there's ever been. no disrespect to anyone but its one Quad i've had my homebrew variations fill of, the next version i want to grab is the 4-ch master tape on an SACD/BD-A!

the Wakeman thing is a whole other subject.. and a rabbit hole i'm reluctant to get sucked down into - again.. my own basic assessment is OD's SQ LP may not have been in the best shape and that some of the A&M Quads aren't mixed (shall we say, being kind/diplomatic) entirely to the "strengths" of the SQ system. check out a Q8 or better still CD-4 conversion of Six Wives and you'll never want to bother with any SQ decode of that one again, i promise!

 

[fredblue]

He probably didn't want that info available on the public forum...and it's prob best not to discuss trading conversions openly and risk angering the mods.



There are very few (if any) quad albums that haven't been transferred and preserved yet as far as I know. Now the results may vary, but some of the stuff out there is really impressive- even from the lowly Q8s you so often deride.

while i'm sure nobody'd be overly thrilled about their 'trade secrets' being plastered on a forum, in truth who's going to steal the methodology and emulate it? two, maybe three QQ-ers who keep their hand in might read it out of interest & a handful of others in awe/admiration at all that work.. and to others who have never tried it all that work would put people off! at this point seemingly next to nobody can be arsed with the converting thing anymore!

 

[4-earredwonder]

i'm sure it's wonderful! at this point yet another conversion of the AWB Quad is kinda the last thing i need tbh Ralph.. i've two copies of the Q8 & CD-4 of my own i've fiddle-farted around with (not to much avail but some of the process was fun!) and have great transfers from both Q8 & CD-4 done by some of the most talented Quad conversion people going/there's ever been. no disrespect to anyone but its one Quad i've had my homebrew variations fill of, the next version i want to grab is the 4-ch master tape on an SACD/BD-A!

the Wakeman thing is a whole other subject.. and a rabbit hole i'm reluctant to get sucked down into - again.. my own basic assessment is OD's SQ LP may not have been in the best shape and that some of the A&M Quads aren't mixed (shall we say, being kind/diplomatic) entirely to the "strengths" of the SQ system. check out a Q8 or better still CD-4 conversion of Six Wives and you'll never want to bother with any SQ decode of that one again, i promise!

I love Rabbit holes, Adam. They keep one honest. Of course we'd ALL love the real enchilada ..... mastered from the ABSOLUTE ORIGINAL MASTERS.....a SURROUND~O~PHILES WET DREAM in LOSSLESS CODECs ......but alas not always possible .... or feasible.

I know Jonathan [sjcorne] is pissed off at me [royally] for failure to acquiesce to Q8 or Vinyl [even Daniel says VINYL is a real PITA] but as it is the only way to hear QUAD at this juncture in the absence of HI RES REMASTERS, I salute ALL who hold it near and dear. It's just NOT FOR ME. Besides, Ticks, pops, swishes and HISS are not usually present in studio recordings! They're artifacts of substandard formats!

 

[sjcorne]

I know Jonathan [sjcorne] is pissed off at me [royally] for failure to acquiesce to Q8 or Vinyl [even Daniel says VINYL is a real PITA] but as it is the only way to hear QUAD at this juncture in the absence of HI RES REMASTERS, I salute ALL who hold it near and dear. It's just NOT FOR ME.

Not at all! If anything I admire your staunch audiophile view. For me the surround aspect is the #1 priority. I've had success and failures with the old quad stuff (currently struggling with a crackly SQ copy of Bob Dylan's Desire). Of course hi-res copies would be better, but it just ain't gonna happen for everything, so I work with what's out there. The collecting and converting can be good fun!

 

[fredblue]

I love Rabbit holes, Adam. They keep one honest. Of course we'd ALL love the real enchilada ..... mastered from the ABSOLUTE ORIGINAL MASTERS.....a SURROUND~O~PHILES WET DREAM in LOSSLESS CODECs ......but alas not always possible .... or feasible.

I know Jonathan [sjcorne] is pissed off at me [royally] for failure to acquiesce to Q8 or Vinyl [even Daniel says VINYL is a real PITA] but as it is the only way to hear QUAD at this juncture in the absence of HI RES REMASTERS, I salute ALL who hold it near and dear. It's just NOT FOR ME.

Q8.. SQ.. CD-4.. they're all somewhat of a pain in the average white ass at some point.

if all that converting kershizzle was that easy, everyone would be at it and there'd be no need for people like the Wiz of Watfordshire!!!

 

[marpow]

Listening now to O'Jays-Survival in 4.0, very fine recording, perfect for after football.

 

[fredblue]

Listening now to O'Jays-Survival in 4.0, very fine recording, perfect for after football.
View attachment 37656

one of me fave SQ-only CBS Quads!

"you've got to give the people,
give the people what they want.."

 

[4-earredwonder]

Q8.. SQ.. CD-4.. they're all somewhat of a pain in the average LILLY white ass at some point.

if all that converting kershizzle was that easy, everyone would be at it and there'd be no need for people like the Wiz of Watfordshire!!!

Daniel didn't say it was easy ....... I'm so computer illiterate I wouldn't know where to start. All I know is my lilly white ass [which hasn't seen the sun for five years] knows exactly what he wants at the "September of His Years..." and that's [besides Sinatra's chestnut in 5.1] everything to sound copacetic ..........

Sure it's fun to 'experiment' but why should we have to.

I always surmised if ALL the Research and Development that went into Q8, Cassettes, SQ/QS/CD~4 vinyl was directed into making the original CD sound 'audiophile' we wouldn't be in this 'mess.' The technology wasn't there back in the early to late 70's but millions was spent on questionable technologies. They sent a man to the moon [even that is questioned] but they couldn't give us what was on the master tapes until ............

And give that poor rabbit a carrot .........he certainly deserves it.

Just Give me 24K GOLD 5.1 LOSSLESS remasters of Everything. This is ALL I ask!

 

[marpow]

Thanks Ralphie for turning me onto this. Alicia Keys-Songs In A Minor 5.1 DVD-A LPCM 24/96, sounds awesome and keeps me in my soul groove. I got it from a US seller at Discogs, $43.00.