Lou Dorren: A new CD-4 Demodulator!!! [ARCHIVE]

[Justforthesoundofit]

Lou,

You have mentioned the double blind studies. Are they public record, as in, accessible from the web?

I would love to read about some of your experiences with different areas of sonic reproduction, as you were in it as a science, not just an ambition. I realize that it would need to be discussed in other forums. When you have time, after this project of course, it would be nice if you could start another thread.

Did I mention that I like “soap boxes”!!! As long as they have a foundation, of course.

 

[kfbkfb]

Regarding the NQRC tests:

http://www.aes.org/e-lib/browse.cfm?elib=2707
has some NQRC info (I don't have a copy).

I recall Audio magazine (USA) published some of the
NQRC test results, I'll try to find the issue.

I haven't found much free (no copyright issues) info
about the NQRC tests yet.

Kirk Bayne

 

[loudorren]

Hello Quadraphonic Fans,

Doug G., I have an answer for you soon.

Quadtro-Action,

Dietrich, Did you get on of the CD-4 test lp the Jim Gabbert and I produced?

Justforthesounofit, The AES paper that Kirk is pointing out is a good summary of the acoustical listening tests of the NQRC. The final report of the NQRC is 4800 pages long. I have a copy but I don't know where you can find an archive.

Lou Dorren

 

[Quadro-Action]

Hello Lou, yes, I have the CD-4 technical record from your source since the late 70's. Together with the LP's of Fisher and the Harman Kardon I am well fitted for the next CD-4 adventures.

Dietrich

 

[kfbkfb]

Regarding the NQRC tests and the SQ Matrix
(with a logic directed decoder):

http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/Xplore/login.jsp?url=/iel5/11/4044056/04044062.pdf?temp=x
Nevertheless, arguments continue about the need for
"discrete" recording and broadcasting because of
implied improvement they afford in channel separation
and in artistic freedom in the use of the four channels.
Both of these inferences are adduced to be fallacious.


Maximizing artistic freedom by providing constant high
(Quadraphonic) channel separation is logically unsound?

Kirk Bayne

 

[Quadro-Action]

Ben Bauer was indeed also a big fighter for quadraphonic surround - of course especially for their CBS SQ technic. Sometimes I wonder, that he/ they was so convinced for their SQ, because each could hear distinct the different between the SQ record and the discrete Q8 of the same program - especially with the first and most working decoders and their 3-6 dB channel separation. But I think a lot of his jealousy against CD-4 has the cause in the fact, that CBS was the first (or an additional) company which has experimented to create a discrete 4-channel record system comparabel or similar to CD-4, but with a fail.
An SQ Broadcasting was also a lot easier as the discrete technic, but again with the same restriction in tose 70's year. Any similar results to discrete has been possible 5 years later with the Fosgate or tate type decoders.

And we have seen, that also later system battles are not good for the consumers, when no one is the winner. When a technic is clear better, this must be finally the world standard - equal if by listening or viewing. May be, that the actual one Blu system may help for further discrete 4 or 5 channel records for "only" music surround. That needs of course also the announced CD-4 update with Lou's new demodulator for a "modern" surround-sound from old records. So I am interested, which is told for the step forward in chapter V.

Dietrich

Dietrich

 

[bmoura]

Ben Bauer was indeed also a big fighter for quadraphonic surround - of course especially for their CBS SQ technic. Dietrich

Very true. He once criticized some of the Discrete Quad backers in the press. Bauer was quoted as saying something like 'I won't engage in a pissing contest with skunks.'

Wow - fighting words over Surround Sound indeed !

 

[loudorren]

Hello Quadravors

Installment V is now up at the link http://www.johana.com/~johana/dorren.

Quadro-Action, bmoura,

Yes, Yes, good old Ben Bauer. Ben was a well respected audio engineer with lots of good work in his time with CBS. Then came SQ and the man who knew the information theorem backwards and forwards, who was well versed in psycho acoustics, audio phase relationships and phantom image generation, completely went off the deep end. He and Emile Torick for CBS and Brad Miller, Jim Gabbert, and I were involved in an AES (Audio Engineering Society) conference debate on Discrete vs "Matrix" Quadraphonics.

I had found a paper that Bauer had written 10 years earlier where he wrote "During listening tests the auditors that had been subjected to out of phase signals reported the feeling of pressure in the ears and in some cases slight nausea indicating that out of phase signals should be avoided". One of the main problems with the SQ "matrix" system is that all "rear" signals are really out of phase, a condition he had written 10 years before "Should be avoided." When I bought up this paper of his as part of my argument, he lost it in front of 1500 people an out came the famous line, "I refuse to get into a pissing contest with skunks".

BY the way, at the next debate Brad Miller gave Ben a little toy stuffed skunk. Everyone in the audience had a big laugh.

For all of you, the humor in installment IV was the name of the paper that I wrote and presented titled "The Dorren Effect of Carrier Recovery Amplitude Perturbations". The acronym is CRAP which is exactly what was causing the problem in the CD-4 record groove.

I will have some test information pretty soon on the bench prototype. The circuit board layout for the new demodulator has begun and I will keep progress reports coming.

Thats it for now,

Lou Dorren

 

[kfbkfb]

Regarding the CD-4 Difference Signal Muting System:

Does the Muting System operate independently for
LF-LB and RF-RB (for example, if the LF-LB carrier
level is too low but the RF-RB carrier level is still
high enough, will the Muting System just collapse
the LF,LB channel separation while keeping the
RF,RB channel separation intact)?

Kirk Bayne

 

[loudorren]

Hello kfbkfb,

Kirk, Left side and Right side are totally independent.

Lou Dorren

 

[bmoura]

I'm wondering if it would be possible all these years later to get some of the QSI CD-4 Record Cleaning Fluid and Wipes. Might help with some of those older, dirty CD-4 Quadradiscs !

 

[loudorren]

Hello bmoura,

Look for my next post.

Lou Dorren

 

[wa6ubw]

I'm wondering if it would be possible all these years later to get some of the QSI CD-4 Record Cleaning Fluid and Wipes.

Who knows. Lou never throws anything out. it's just that he can never find anything.

 

[bmoura]

Who knows. Lou never throws anything out. it's just that he can never find anything.

I'm sure he has the formula documented in his archives.

 

[herby]

Who knows. Lou never throws anything out. it's just that he can never find anything.

For Lou, it is all organized. All under 'F' for Filed. I'm sure Mike will agree.

Go back to Sanford & Son: We buy junk, We sell Antiques.

 

[callmez]

Who knows. Lou never throws anything out. it's just that he can never find anything.

I can relate to that. My wife will concur, shaking her head... but hey, it's all GOOD STUFF!

Mark Z

 

[loudorren]

Hello Quadraphony Community,

I gave had numerous requests and questions about the record cleaner that we developed for CD-4 records. It turns out that this cleaner works wonder on all disks including vinyl, acetate, and shellac. Yes, indeed, I have the original formula, so I looked into have a small production run made for anyone who wants to clean their disk library. The results were positive, so I am having the run made. I also had the original bottle artwork, so the bottles will have the original label, "QSI Record Cleaner...For Superior Sound".

This is a cleaning kit that will come with an 8 ounce bottle of cleaner and a box of laboratory grade, lint free Kim Wipes for application. In addition will be an application note on cleaning CD-4 records and how to use the cleaner in disk restoration (mono and stereo) before recording. I have had very good results in restoring very badly damaged disks in the restoration process.

One more thing, when the new CD-4 demodulator is available, each one will come with a cleaner kit along with the CD-4 cartridge and of course the demodulator.

I will set up the kit on Ebay and post the item number in a future post. The last thing is the cost. It will be $28.00, which includes shipping. I want every one to know, as with the new CD-4 demodulator, this price covers the costs and is not intended to make profit. Also, I did discuss this offer with Jon to clear posting it here.

That is it for now,

Lou Dorren

 

[The Quadfather]

Hey Lou:
Maybe you ought to make a few extra CD-4 demodulators and sell them on the internet (for a profit, of course) just to test the market and see if others would want it. I'm sure that there are other quaddies who are loners who might want one. Is it worth a shot?

The Quadfather

 

[proufo]

I will set up the kit on Ebay and post the item number in a future post.

Hello, Lou.

I'd guess you can take pre-paid direct orders too. No need to involve ebay for people that already know about the product.

Thanks for the CD-4 revival and technology upgrade.

 

[Bob Romano]

That kit sounds excellent. I am patiently waiting for it and the announcement that the Demodulator is ready for ordering!!! I would agree to announce it here. Im sure they would sell just as fast as putting it up on Ebay without all the hassle. But that's just me....