MMH - New Atmos Decoder (beta) discussion

[mandrix]

Well another problem I encounter with Atmos DD+ streaming mixes is many of them have the dialnorm set so low I have to really crank up my AVR. Mind you I'm bitstreaming directly to my AVR via HDMI.
People can disagree on what mixes sound good, but almost everyone will tell you some Atmos streaming mixes just suck at worst, at best not very good. It's like someone took a crash course in mixing Atmos and hung out a shingle, and got paid for crappy work.
JMHO.

As far as The Hurting being well balanced and well mixed, well one of the premier Atmos mixers did it. But The Tipping Point is very fine as well. So is xPropagada - The Heart Is Strange. Speaking of lossless Atmos here.
But DD+ streaming is all over the place, just a fact. Some lossless Atmos BD's aren't that great to me either, just like mch mixes from about any genre.

90% of what I know about setting up for playback of Atmos or anything else in Windows was derived from personal experience. Sometime you just have to put the time in to figure things out. If that makes you exhausted then I don't know what to say. If you feel you're not getting your point across, well I think we all understand what frustration feels like.
People here try to help for the most part. If you're not finding what you need here then you have the whole internet at your disposal. There's a virtual plethora of information available.

I do not have a wealth of experience playing Atmos folded down to 5.1 because I don't have to. But playback can be a challenge at times, especially on a Windows pc where it seems every new update breaks something, even in my case resetting sound properties or even my static IP address and thus screwing up port forwarding on my router. So it goes.

 

[himey]

I do not have a wealth of experience playing Atmos folded down to 5.1 because I don't have to. But playback can be a challenge at times, especially on a Windows pc

This isn't my experience at all. Even the built in Windows 10 player, has no issues playing DD+ Atmos. There isn't a "fold down", it simply ignores the metadata, and plays the 5.1 bed like any other DD+ 5.1 file. VLC also handles the files in the same way. Foobar2000 needs FFMPEG. JRiver I thik supports it directly.

 

[mandrix]

This isn't my experience at all. Even the built in Windows 10 player, has no issues playing DD+ Atmos. There isn't a "fold down", it simply ignores the metadata, and plays the 5.1 bed like any other DD+ 5.1 file. VLC also handles the files in the same way. Foobar2000 needs FFMPEG. JRiver I thik supports it directly.

Some people have issues with Windows 10 & 11 trying to get HDMI streaming working. Windows 10 in particular for some but 11 can have it's quirks, I've seen it on a clean install from people I know.
Yes Foobar needs FFMPEG and a few setting options.
OK "fold down" was a poor choice of words. Jeez Louise. I was thinking about how Atmos will adapt to an individual's system if less than 9.1.6 e.g.
Whether you never experienced any problems or not, and the majority of people appear to not have them, Windows does throw a "gotcha" at some people and sometimes it takes some work to get it back on track for mch/spatial audio. Not software players per se, but Windows itself can get "stuck" on stereo playback.

 

[himey]

OK "fold down" was a poor choice of words. Jeez Louise.

I corrected you simply because I wanted to make a point that playing the Atmos Dolby Digital Plus files is very basic if all you are doing is playing the bed, which is specifically the topic in question.

Terms like "fold down" makes it seem complicated when really it isn't. DD+ has been supported for a very long time.

 

[mandrix]

I corrected you simply because I wanted to make a point that playing the Atmos Dolby Digital Plus files is very basic if all you are doing is playing the bed, which is specifically the topic in question.

Terms like "fold down" makes it seem complicated when really it isn't. DD+ has been supported for a very long time.

For the love of all things. I get your point. Do you ever in your life misspeak? Never mind, I'm outta here with your need to keep on with this.

 

[himey]

For the love of all things. I get your point. Do you ever in your life misspeak? Never mind, I'm outta here with your need to keep on with this.

Sorry for simply sharing my personal experience. Please put me on ignore going forward. Thanks.

 

[ManWhoCan]

FYI I have atmos bed 5.1 lossy files playing nicely now, but only in Windows Media Player. I have retried Foobar with the FFmpeg Decoder Wrapper & required settings and it still does not sound right. I am on WinX 22H2 Build 19045.3086 with Windows Feature Experience Pack 1000.19041.1000.0. I imagine the WinX version & build might make a difference.

 

[HomerJAU]

Terms like "fold down"

And use of ”bed” and “fold down” are not really correct for Dolby Atmos.

A common misconception is ”bed” excludes the additional (height etc) channel data.

The core 5.1 or 7.1 channel data contains all the music and is actually “expanded” to the user’s speaker layout (5.1.4, 7.1.6 etc) by the Atmos decoder during playback. Without an Atmos decoder or with a decoder and only 5,1 or 7.1 speaker layout a user will hear ALL the music in 5.1 or 7.1 (nothing is removed, it’s just not “expanded” to the extra speakers).

If a user upgrades their 5.1 system to a 7.1.4 system and listens to their same Atmos album they won’t hear additional information, but they will here the music expanded into 3D space and generally (depending on the mix) more discrete localisation of instruments/vocals.

 

[AYanguas]

And use of ”bed” and “fold down” are not really correct for Dolby Atmos.

A common misconception is ”bed” excludes the additional (height etc) channel data.

The core 5.1 or 7.1 channel data contains all the music and is actually “expanded” to the user’s speaker layout (5.1.4, 7.1.6 etc) by the Atmos decoder during playback. Without an Atmos decoder or with a decoder and only 5,1 or 7.1 speaker layout a user will hear ALL the music in 5.1 or 7.1 (nothing is removed, it’s just not “expanded” to the extra speakers).

If a user upgrades their 5.1 system to a 7.1.4 system and listens to their same Atmos album they won’t hear additional information, but they will here the music expanded into 3D space and generally (depending on the mix) more discrete localisation of instruments/vocals.

Actually, Dolby Atmos has up to 10 "bed" channels: 7.1.2, that correspond directly to the 7.1.2 speakers if available on the system.

The mixer can "locate" sounds in any of the 7.1.2 "bed channels" directly or in an independent "Object" with its 3D location metadata, or both. The Atmos decoder will generate content for the available speakers to image the sound in the 3D location. Or will do nothing if non Atmos capable and the whole content (5.1 / 7.1) will be played.

I think the misconception originates from assimilating that "bed" mistakenly refers to the "floor" speakers, or to the channels that exist in the base format in the encoding, 5.1 for DD+ or 7.1 for TrueHD.

 

[himey]

And use of ”bed” and “fold down” are not really correct for Dolby Atmos.

Using the term bed rather than base layer was lazy on my part. I am certainty not the first to do so, and I won't be the last.

 

[mihyli]

are panning metadata preserved??

 

[himey]

are panning metadata preserved??

Too general of a question to answer. Once decoded, there is no metadata, but the panning will be preserved. Is that what you meant?

 

[HomerJAU]

The Dolby Reference Player uses the panning metadata during its decode so the panning is heard but it’s fixed to the speaker layout chosen in the decode process.

 

[jonnyboio]

Did some testing with this, it decodes perfectly but seems to mislabel some files: I exported to 7.1.4 as mono wavs, surround was labelled BL/BR and surround back was labelled SL/SR.

 

[mandrix]

Did some testing with this, it decodes perfectly but seems to mislabel some files: I exported to 7.1.4 as mono wavs, surround was labelled BL/BR and surround back was labelled SL/SR.

Sounds right to me? Side Left, Side Right.

 

[AudiophileStyle]

This is directly from Dolby:

 

[mandrix]

Yes. But we can call it whatever we want.
Windows Dolby for Home Theatre says right side, left side. But then Windows always has to be different.

 

[AudiophileStyle]

Yes. But we can call it whatever we want.
Windows Dolby for Home Theatre says right side, left side. But then Windows always has to be different.

I hear ya. Even Dolby calls the channels something different once in a while.

 

[jonnyboio]

Sounds right to me? Side Left, Side Right.

The issue is that the channel named Side Left was actually the back left channel, not the side left channel.

 

[mandrix]

If you do a sound check in Windows, the sides will play as the rears, and vice versa.
It's all a cluster F. But a well known one.
Fortunately the pc audio apps don't suffer from the same.
I call the side speakers left & right side surround in a 7.1.4 setup. Don't care what else they are called by the various entities.