MMH - New Atmos Decoder (beta) discussion

[HomerJAU]

I’ll try 7.1.2 today.

 

[HomerJAU]

Unfortunately, the updated version does not fix mono WAVs either (at least not for me)

I tested 7.1.2 decode from EAC3 just a moment ago and all ok here.

Can you try again but ensure you have your source .m4a files in a folder without a long name and don't close the MMH Decoder window until you have checked the folder for the output wav files. Also the file and folder names should not contain 'strange' characters and the DRP only supports basic characters set and fails on others.

 

[redoXiD]

Thank you, I tried that and muxed the .eac3 file to .m4a. However, the result is still the same and the Atmos Helper generates a W64 file. My file was located at "C:\Users\name\Videos\eng.m4a", so there should be no issues with strange characters. I also did a fresh reinstall of MMH and deleted all leftover registry keys and files using Revo Uninstaller, so theoretically it should work.

Does MMH generate log files that I can provide to help you troubleshoot? Or are there any components of my system that might prevent mono WAV generation?

EDIT: I also tried it on a different machine, same problem.

 

[HomerJAU]

Does MMH generate log files that I can provide to help you troubleshoot?

No. But if you have the w64 file (is it large or zero bytes?) then the decode is completed, if its > 0 bytes.

The MMH 7 version decoding creates single multichannel interleaved file in a command window so users can see the decode process. On completion it uses ffmpeg to split into mono files.

Do you see the decode process progress window? If so does it reach 100%?
What is the size of your input file?
What is the input file name?
How much spare disc space do you have? Decoding to wav creates very large files. Many times greater than eac3 compressed files.
Can you decode successfully if you do not check the ‘create mono files’ option?
Could you please create a folder named: c:\TEST and try to decode.

You can PM me and send me a link to your uploaded input file for me to test, or tell me the name of the release as I may have the disc.

THX
Garry

 

[redoXiD]

To answer the questions:

The progress window reaches 100%, the resulting W64 file is 3.15GB.
The input file (eng.m4a/eng.eac3) is 220MB.
I have 35GB of spare disc space on my main drive (should be enough, the temp file is 4.2GB and W64 3.15GB).
Interleaved file works, the output file does not differ from the W64 file created using the mono option.
Tried C:\TEST, no difference. Mono files still not working.

I've sent you a PM.

 

[HomerJAU]

MMH 7 updated with fix to @redoXiD reported issue above.

 

[redoXiD]

That's great, thank you very much!

 

[ManWhoCan]

Does the decoder also work with the 5.1 only 16bit/48kHz Atmos lossy streams?
I imagine it is possible to convert the MMH outputed wav to flac without loss?

Any ideas on losslessly converting m4a to mp4 'cos currently the mp4 (lossy) I have (decoded via WINX app 'Movies & TV') sounds better than the m4a (lossy) files decoded via Windows Media Player. I suspect the more video focused 'Movies & TV' app decodes better than the more all purpose WMP?

 

[SeeMoreDigital]

Any ideas on losslessly converting m4a to mp4 'cos currently the mp4 (lossy) I have (decoded via WINX app 'Movies & TV') sounds better than the m4a (lossy) files decoded via Windows Media Player. I suspect the more video focused 'Movies & TV' app decodes better than the more all purpose WMP?

The term 'MP4' refers to a type of container. ie: the thing that you put other things in, such as video, audio and subtitles streams.

According to Part-14 of the MPEG-4 specification the only official file extension for the container is '.mp4'. The '.m4a' file extension was invented by Apple, along with .m4v, m4p, etc.

 

[HomerJAU]

Does the decoder also work with the 5.1 only 16bit/48kHz Atmos lossy streams?

Yes.

Decoding to 5.1 gives same output at playing the stream via a Dolby Digital Plus AVR using 5.1 speaker layout. So no need to decode to 5.1 WAV or FLAC unless you intend to edit the channels (I.e. boost rear channel volume etc).

Any ideas on losslessly converting m4a to mp4

The term 'MP4' refers to a type of container

Renaming m4a files to mp4 leaves the internal streams unchanged as @SeeMoreDigital says (this is a ‘lossless conversion’, the streams are identical - the definition of lossless). Of course, if the stream is Dolby Digital Plus as used in Atmos streaming its content is lossy. Converting lossy to lossless FLAC still leaves you with the original lossy audio but in a lossless container (no audible benefit - although I have read decoding 16bit DD+ to 24bit can. I have never seriously compared but now usually convert 16 bit to 24bit when converting lossy to wav.

 

[ar surround]

Converting lossy to lossless FLAC still leaves you with the original lossy audio but in a lossless container (no audible benefit - although I have read decoding 16bit DD+ to 24bit can. I have never seriously compared but now usually convert 16 bit to 24bit when converting lossy to wav.

I wonder how that is even possible. I thought that once the bit depth was lowered (i.e. to 16 bit), increasing the bit depth was a futile exercise. I guess not, but that kind of stuff is beyond my admittedly limited knowledge.

 

[HomerJAU]

I read that in a discussion that was specific to16 bit lossy audio to wav decoding. It may well be BS but the guy that posted was well respected. I’ll see if I can find that post…

 

[ManWhoCan]

@HomerJAU Thanks for your reply. I am aware that any lossy format in a lossless container is still lossy etc., but it was good of you to expain it in case I did not.
While trying to find the best way to play the lossy 5.1 official atmos files I have on my HDDs I thought that an mp4 containing lossy atmos 5.1 files sounded better than the m4a files. Possibly because Windows 10 used different apps to play the 2 files. WMP for m4a and the Windows app called 'Movies & TV' for the mp4 album. I tried XRecode3 to convert m4a to mp4, but was not pleased with the results and the 3 different options available for that particular conversion were over my head. So I want to try converting a few m4a albums to mp4 to see if they will sound better via the other Windows app..

 

[AYanguas]

.... I tried XRecode3 to convert m4a to mp4, but was not pleased with the results and the 3 different options available for that particular conversion were over my head. So I want to try converting a few m4a albums to mp4 to see if they will sound better via the other Windows app..

Try just renaming the file m4a to mp4. No conversion at all, just a renaming of the file extension.

I do that with my files because m4a (container with a single audio track DD+ with Atmos) cannot be played with my Oppo, and the renamed files to mp4 are played.
My other player Dune can play both m4a and mp4, and even display the 'cover' picture tag inserted in the files.

EDITED: Keep in mind that the audio track DD+ with Atmos does not need to be "converted" at all. You only need a proper player to decode the 5.1 and eventually the Atmos, that can recognize the container... or the file name extension.

 

[SeeMoreDigital]

@HomerJAU Thanks for your reply. I am aware that any lossy format in a lossless container is still lossy etc., but it was good of you to expain it in case I did not.

Just-so-you-know... There's no such thing as a 'lossless' container. And the most flexible container of them all is Matroska (ie: .mkv, .mka).

For more info regarding containers look here: Comparison of video container formats - Wikipedia.

EDIT: Oh, and just because it's possible to mux a particular video, audio and subtitle stream within a container, does not mean every software player or hardware (SoC) playback device will support it.

 

[ManWhoCan]

Try just renaming the file m4a to mp4. No conversion at all, just a renaming of the file extension.

Yes I tried that 1st., but it was unsuccessful. I've renamed files recently by changing the suffix e.g. webpage image to .jpg and that worked. This is why I'm now asking about a conversion from m4a to mp4. Maybe I did, or did not, do something simple when trying to rename an m4a to mp4. I'll try again, but any and all advice is most welcome, thank you.

 

[SeeMoreDigital]

This is why I'm now asking about a conversion from m4a to mp4. Maybe I did, or did not, do something simple when trying to rename an m4a to mp4.

As mentioned before... An .m4a contained file is the same as an .mp4 contained file. Meaning there is nothing to convert!

If your files are not playing then there's something else wrong. Please run one of your problem files through an application called MediaInfo, which must be set to text mode and post what it reports 'in full' as a text file.

 

[ManWhoCan]

MediaInfo reports for 3x m4a:
Of these examples, Kaya sounds the worst and the other 2 are supposedly the best possible sounding due to superior mix artists.

MediaInfo report for 1x mp4:
Which to my ears sounds better that the m4a files, probably only due to being decoded on my system by Windows app 'Movies & TV' whereas the m4a files are all decoded by Windows Media Player.

 

[mandrix]

Well basically the 4 files appear identical. What software player you use, whether your system will decode Atmos, etc could determine how each sounds to you.
For MP4/M4A playback I use PowerDVD Ultra, and bitstream to my AVR which decodes the lossy DD+ to my 7.1.4 system.
But for example the Foobar media player will not bitstream, but can be configured to play back MP4/M4A files base channels, in other words you will not get any "movement" Atmos effects but the channels will play as fixed channels/positions.

Also the free VLC media player can be used to play back BD from .iso format and will decode lossless THD/Atmos. (I don't remember what Matroska formats with lossless Atmos/THD it will play but used to choke on M4A)

Hope that's understandable. Perhaps someone else can add some details I forget.

 

[SeeMoreDigital]

Hmmm...

There's a lot of unnecessary meta-data in some of those files. Personally I would remove most of it (using something like MP3tag) as it might be confusing your player...

How exactly are you playing these files. What's the make and model numbers of your playback device and AVR?