More stealth quad albums

[Gimme 4]

There's only one correct way of playing this, and that's using a QS decoder...

To clarify, I own a Sansui QSD-1 as I stated in my previous post. That's about as good a decoder for QS as it gets! Had hoped prehaps someone knowledgable about the QSD-1 would elaborate on the difference between its "QS" and "Surround" modes. I was also asking whether a surround mode like Dolby PL or other comes close to actual QS decoding.

 

[oxforddickie]

OK, sorry but i don't know about the QSD-1. I suppose for it's day it was as good as it got for decoding QS, but things have moved on from those days. Afraid software decoding beats it in almost every aspect now.

Dolby will not improve on the decoding i'm afraid, especially Dolby PL.

I've tested the album using my QS360 script and it sounds brilliant, as close to discrete as you could wish. I'll be re-releasing it in th new year

OD

 

[Larry Geller]

I've tested the album using my QS360 script and it sounds brilliant, as close to discrete as you could wish. I'll be re-releasing it in th new year

OD

You're overselling the script. Yeah, it's the best I've ever heard QS, but it doesn't sound remotely like discrete, it's probably not the script. it's probably the encoding, but the QS technology was just lacking, always the ugly stepsister to CD-4 & SQ.

 

[oxforddickie]

I think your wrong, it's actually down to the mix. Have you listened to Treasure Island? Not all mixes are like this, the scripts show what the mix was like.

yes, i agree it can never be 100% descrete, BUT the scripts take the matrix systems way beyond what was ever imagened. And don't knock QS, i spent the time on QS because it was so bad.

Another point, there does appear to be some confusion in the naming of the scripts. I released my modified version of Kemp's original QS script and called it QSplus. This is NOT QS360. This is a set of 3 seperate scripts and is not yet publicly available.

OD

 

[Gimme 4]

OK, sorry but i don't know about the QSD-1. ...I've tested the album using my QS360 script..

Then I guess I am SOL. You might want to become knowledgable of the QSD-1. It is an excellent 3-band decoder. My system is analog only, the exception being my 1986 vintage Denon DCD1500 CD player. No computer is anywhere near my quad system.

 

[tejanoboy]

You're overselling the script. Yeah, it's the best I've ever heard QS, but it doesn't sound remotely like discrete, it's probably not the script. it's probably the encoding, but the QS technology was just lacking, always the ugly stepsister to CD-4 & SQ.

Yeah, but that ugly step-sister survived long enough to beget all the Dolby analog systems up to and including Pro Logic II...where are SQ and CD-4 now?
(Sounds vaguely like a Cinderella story!)
They ALL have their place, but few decoders can make a nice quad effect out of regular stereo like a Variomatrix does!
QS was more a POOR step-sister, in a large part because Columbia had the clout to swamp the market with SQ albums, and Sony on their side to make sure there were plenty of decoders. Sansui did a poor job of "pushing" QS (they DIDN'T own a giant record company), and if their last generation of decoders had been out five years earlier, SQ may not have even made it out of the gate.
We've seen this all before...VHS won on marketing merits even though Beta was better, but Beta evolved to become the pro format for TV broadcast. (Betacam)

I like what oxforddickie is doing, making quad material available to anybody that can decode DTS...far more people have an A/V receiver than have a quad one.
BUT, I still like the old analog stuff, too...it's uncompressed, it works in real time, and there is the above-mentioned quad synthesis ability.
Oxforddickie, are you considering in the future putting out product in a high-bit-rate format like Blu-Ray? Maybe uncompressed 24-bit/96 kHz? I'D sure buy it!
tB

 

[Gimme 4]

Here are a couple of short videos I took yesterday off my Pioneer SD-1100 4-channel o'scope while listening to a Shuggie Otis CD. Almost like his stuff was mixed for quad. May not be as good as the latest greatest computer decoding, but the old Sansui QSD-1 sure sounds good!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fO7EkNIIIyo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=udB3b5_yQyk

 

[oxforddickie]

Oxforddickie, are you considering in the future putting out product in a high-bit-rate format like Blu-Ray? Maybe uncompressed 24-bit/96 kHz? I'D sure buy it!
tB

All my releases are DVD-A first, the DTS track is for those who don't have access to it's high quality, uncompressed brother. DVD-A is as good as any release on Blu-Ray would be.

I spend a great deal of time tracking down CD releases of Quad mixes, and where none exsist i'll use the original records. As to using 96K on CD sources, well there is no point, and using it on record rips is also very questionable, as i've previously stated elsewhere. For records, ripping at 24-bit is almost mandatory.

And, just a quick word about Dolby Surround. I could never take it seriously, a surround system that bases itself on using a mono, bandwidth limited rear through two speakers can't produce a proper surround expereience. I had a system, and disconnected it after a few days, i felt it was a major step backwards from what we had in Quadraphonics.

OD

 

[ssully]

But as I'm sure you're aware, Dolby Surround has long been superseded by Pro Logic and especially, PLII.

(Btw, I'm only interested in the DTS files for now -- are those typically grouped into one or more of the .rar archives by themselves, or are they intermixed with MLP files?)

 

[oxforddickie]

of course, i was talking about the way people went on how brilliant it was(nt) when it was released, and PLII is not to be taken seriously either i'm afraid.

The releases are as an ISO. I know many who are "computer" based download the ISO, and rip the MLP tracks to whatever they use.

OD

 

[Q8]

Here are some more stealth vinyl quad albums:

Vangelis recorded most of his later albums in either SQ or UMX (I am trying to determine which). They are not labeled as such, because the record company that published the albums (RCA) would not allow an SQ recording if they knew. But they definitely have sound sources in all 6 primary SQ positions.

"Tommy" (the movie soundtrack) is in QS, as is the movie. No mention, because Polydor used CD-4.

The Beach Boys "Love You" is in Dynaquad. There was an article on it, but no mention on the album.

All of the ABBA albums 1977 and later seem to be in either UMX or H. Because they were on Atlantic, there would be no mention of matrix quad on the album.

Some Meco albums are in Dolby Surround.

Most movie soundtrack albums are in Dolby Surround.

Did anyone ever hammer out if there are actually Meco albums in Dolby Surround or any other matrix or which one, or know what article he was talking about that he claims Meco said that. I'm very interested in this as a Meco fan.

 

[MidiMagic]

I now have more information.

I found out what was really going on when my Herb Alpert and the Tijuana Brass albums made before quadraphonics existed threw the lead parts into the back speakers in SQ. It turns out that A&M Records was using the Haeco CSG (Compatible Stereo Generator - also known as the Holzer system). It was a device intended to solve the exaggerated center soloist problem when a stereo record was played in mono. It phase-shifted the items panned to center - just what SQ does to the back channels.

Atlantic Records also did this to the ABBA records.

 

[malcolmlear]

That's really interesting, never heard of that technique before. Was it just the center panned soloist being phase shifted or instruments as well??

 

[malcolmlear]

That would explain why several non quad albums I've decoded have fairly high rear channel information, mostly left back

 

[leevitalone1]

Here are some more stealth vinyl quad albums:

Vangelis recorded most of his later albums in either SQ or UMX (I am trying to determine which). They are not labeled as such, because the record company that published the albums (RCA) would not allow an SQ recording if they knew. But they definitely have sound sources in all 6 primary SQ positions.

"Tommy" (the movie soundtrack) is in QS, as is the movie. No mention, because Polydor used CD-4.

The Beach Boys "Love You" is in Dynaquad. There was an article on it, but no mention on the album.

All of the ABBA albums 1977 and later seem to be in either UMX or H. Because they were on Atlantic, there would be no mention of matrix quad on the album.

Some Meco albums are in Dolby Surround.

Most movie soundtrack albums are in Dolby Surround.

Ya most movie soundtracks are DD. If you go back a bit and look at the old VHS movies, you will see the DD logo. Tons of the VHS cassettes were in surround. This very fact re-ignited my interest in the quad format and music once again.

 

[humprof]

Here's another possibility for @Mark Anderson's list of stealth quad CDs: a 2009 reissue (which I only learned of yesterday) of the 1976 New York Shakespeare Festival/Public Theater revival of Threepenny Opera with Raul Julia. I can't find a Discogs listing for the CD, but the original LP was a late, single-issue quad on Columbia with a very good Don Young mix--I know it from Oxford Dickie's decode--and Arkiv apparently brought out the CD as part of a series of boutique reissues they licensed from Sony.

If it wasn't digitally remastered, then it should have the SQ encoding, right?
http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=214480http://castalbums.org/recordings/The-Threepenny-Opera-1976-New-York-Shakespeare-Festival/449Seems like this would be a natural for Dutton Epoch, by the way.

 

[J. PUPSTER]

Here's another possibility for @Mark Anderson's list of stealth quad CDs: a 2009 reissue (which I only learned of yesterday) of the 1976 New York Shakespeare Festival/Public Theater revival of Threepenny Opera with Raul Julia. I can't find a Discogs listing for the CD, but the original LP was a late, single-issue quad on Columbia with a very good Don Young mix--I know it from Oxford Dickie's decode--and Arkiv apparently brought out the CD as part of a series of boutique reissues they licensed from Sony.

If it wasn't digitally remastered, then it should have the SQ encoding, right?
http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=214480http://castalbums.org/recordings/The-Threepenny-Opera-1976-New-York-Shakespeare-Festival/449Seems like this would be a natural for Dutton Epoch, by the way.

https://www.discogs.com/Joseph-Papp...t-Recording-Three-Penny-Opera/release/4428117

 

[4-earredwonder]

Here's another possibility for @Mark Anderson's list of stealth quad CDs: a 2009 reissue (which I only learned of yesterday) of the 1976 New York Shakespeare Festival/Public Theater revival of Threepenny Opera with Raul Julia. I can't find a Discogs listing for the CD, but the original LP was a late, single-issue quad on Columbia with a very good Don Young mix--I know it from Oxford Dickie's decode--and Arkiv apparently brought out the CD as part of a series of boutique reissues they licensed from Sony.

If it wasn't digitally remastered, then it should have the SQ encoding, right?
http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=214480http://castalbums.org/recordings/The-Threepenny-Opera-1976-New-York-Shakespeare-Festival/449Seems like this would be a natural for Dutton Epoch, by the way.

My vinyl is neatly packed away but I do recall owning this original Columbia album in SQ Vinyl.

And I wholeheartedly agree.....would be a natural for the D~V treatment!

 

[steelydave]

Sometime in 1976 Columbia Masterworks went single inventory for their quad releases, so this one, along with any of the others (you can see a list here) should maintain the SQ encoding.

The issue wouldn't be with "digital remastering" (any analog tape reissues on a CD has been digitally mastered or remastered by definition) it's more what's done during that remastering process. I think the SQ encoding can survive a lot of that (EQ, noise reduction) but something like narrowing of the stereo sound field (ie mixing the left and right channels together) probably would have a detrimental effect on the SQ encoding.

That Three-Penny Opera should be good though, it's a Don Young quad mix, and probably one of his final ones too - kinda wild to think he did this and Bob Dylan's Desire in the same year.

 

[humprof]

https://www.discogs.com/Joseph-Papp...t-Recording-Three-Penny-Opera/release/4428117

Right--I can't find a Discogs entry for the CD reissue on Arkiv/Sony, though.