HiRez Poll Morrison, Van - MOONDANCE [Blu-Ray Audio]

[alk3997]

I think we're both saying the same thing actually, aside from you're counting the .1 channel as a full bandwidth channel in your bitrate calculations.

If I remember right, the LFE channel is a full bandwidth channel. Listen to some of the DVD-Audio discs LFE channel through a "regular" speaker and you'll hear full bandwidth music (the engineers sometimes let the subwoofer do the low frequency filtering instead of performing it in the studio). It's really full bandwidth in case the channel gets used for something else, such as mono-height, which never really caught on.

But, no matter the bandwidth of the LFE, the bit rate for the output of the MLP decoder will be a constant value. Where as the input to the MLP decoder will be non-constant which is consistent with how many bits were saved in the encoding process.

And, yes we are way off topic unless Van Morrison is into MLP encoding schemes.

 

[JonUrban]

Hey guys, let's keep the non-Moondance stuff out of this thread. It will look rather silly a few years from now if someone wants to read about this release.

 

[JonUrban]

Re: Moondance - HOLY CRAP!!!


This disc sounds awesome. Excellent surround mix, very spatial and enjoyable. Opens the songs up like never before. So glad they were able to get this one out, regardless of the cost. I'll probably never touch the other discs in the set!

Upon first listen, however, this has to be a 10. But I will wait............

 

[The Bright Side]

Hey guys, still haven't gotten around to listening to the 5.1 mix, but I'm checking out the stereo right now. So I'll go very slightly off topic, but it may be interesting.

I'm listening to this album for the first time ever, and it seems to me like the songs sound different from the versions on his 2007 double-disc "Still On Top" collection. Does anybody know if e.g. "And it stoned me" or "Moondance" were re-recorded at a later point?

Perhaps it's just my imagination.

 

[rusinurbe]

Hey guys, still haven't gotten around to listening to the 5.1 mix, but I'm checking out the stereo right now. So I'll go very slightly off topic, but it may be interesting.

I'm listening to this album for the first time ever, and it seems to me like the songs sound different from the versions on his 2007 double-disc "Still On Top" collection. Does anybody know if e.g. "And it stoned me" or "Moondance" were re-recorded at a later point?

Perhaps it's just my imagination.

In answer to your question No idea, But I don't believe so. Van has been quite cagey about his archives and the early albums refusing just about everything archival. In this case though the artist really is not the best person to comment on what should or should not stay in the vaults

I know the album quite well The 5.1 mix is out of the top drawer, possibly another 10 year old mix which will get a grammy !!!

Second listen tonight was in a more ideal listening position and brilliant.

The Outtakes from the sessions are good as well discs 2 and 4 so far listened to and the different takes of each song do vary in style.

 

[wavelength]

The volume of this recording is very low so it has to be turned up beyond what for me would be my normal volume setting for nearly all of my other discs.

On top of that, each song displays a broad range of volume within the recording itself. While the voice always dominates along with 1, 2, or 3 instruments at the same level as the voice, there are other instruments at a simultaneous background level that will not be clearly defined unless I set my system volume to a louder-than-usual level. It doesn't have to be "loud" but it definitely has to be louder-than-usual to hear the complete sound including the quieter instruments. I can't think of any other disc that I listen to where I hear static from my speakers between the tracks just because I am at a high volume setting.

 

[JonUrban]

I pulled this onto my PC via Audiomuxer so I can listen to it in my car (eventually), and there is no brickwalling, compression, or "loudness war" (I hate that term) evident AT ALL to the eye (or ear). A very nice job on the mastering if you ask me.

Stellar!

 

[alk3997]

I received a second delivery of the Moondance discs from Amazon today. The newest delivery had the same problem playing in the OPPO BDP-93 as the first delivery. The OPPO reports the factory version of "Moondance" as an unknown disc.

Through a few methods, I looked at the programming on the Blu-Ray disc. The authoring is good enough for the OPPO to recognize it with a different disc "manufacturing" method. Using that alternate method, the OPPO plays the disc perfectly. I'm hoping someone else with a BDP-93 will try to play this disc. It could also be a bad batch of discs since my replacement disc probably came from the same batch as the first disc. So, maybe not everyone is affected.

Anyway, the DENON is a different story. It will not recognize a Blu-Ray disc without a menu structure. At least that's my theory. I'm not sure if that is even legal with a BD-MV. I'll call DENON tomorrow and see if they can ignore my request to fix that issue.

One other thing I just discovered is that Moonlight is another disc that did not low pass the LFE channel. So, there is a full frequency mix of the drums (including cymbals) and bass guitar on the LFE channel. Unfortunately, that isn't too unusual. It is also an interesting listen if you want to hear the rhythm section isolated.

 

[wavelength]

There is a track list screen but no other menus, pop up or main.

Yeah, it's almost like somebody was cranking out the blu-ray discs in their garage. Pretty poor on Warner Bros. part. Oh well, the music is wonderful to be sure.

 

[Cheezmo]

Backup the Blu-ray with MakeMKV. Then convert to flac with DVD Audio Extractor. Then put on a USB and play on your Oppo. Physical media is dead, long live physical media.

I received a second delivery of the Moondance discs from Amazon today. The newest delivery had the same problem playing in the OPPO BDP-93 as the first delivery. The OPPO reports the factory version of "Moondance" as an unknown disc.

Through a few methods, I looked at the programming on the Blu-Ray disc. The authoring is good enough for the OPPO to recognize it with a different disc "manufacturing" method. Using that alternate method, the OPPO plays the disc perfectly. I'm hoping someone else with a BDP-93 will try to play this disc. It could also be a bad batch of discs since my replacement disc probably came from the same batch as the first disc. So, maybe not everyone is affected.

Anyway, the DENON is a different story. It will not recognize a Blu-Ray disc without a menu structure. At least that's my theory. I'm not sure if that is even legal with a BD-MV. I'll call DENON tomorrow and see if they can ignore my request to fix that issue.

One other thing I just discovered is that Moonlight is another disc that did not low pass the LFE channel. So, there is a full frequency mix of the drums (including cymbals) and bass guitar on the LFE channel. Unfortunately, that isn't too unusual. It is also an interesting listen if you want to hear the rhythm section isolated.

 

[alk3997]

That's OK. I now have a version of the disc that plays 96/24 5.1 in the OPPO and 48/24 5.1 in the car. I really didn't want to spend time doing that, but whoever did the mastering and manufacturing for this disc forced me to.

I really wanted to sit back, relax and enjoy this album. Instead I had to work for getting the opportunity to sit back, relax and then (finally) enjoy the album. It sounds great though.

Hopefully this weekend I'll get a chance to listen uninterrupted by authoring software.

 

[uffeolby]

Played the 5.1 Bluray once through yesterday and here are my first impressions:

Pros:
- Overall a very good mix with the typical E Scheiner soundfield, which is a good one in my book
- Excellent fidelity given the old age of the recording
- Best song from a mix and fidelity perspective was for me A Brand New Day - the girl's backing vocals are pure heaven on this one. An honorable mention to Glad Tidings also.

Cons:
- Where is the low end on the title track Moondance? Geez, the base on this track is so important and here it is barely audible... I experienced the same thing on the first bars in on my favorite track, Into the Mystic, but thankfully then the base kicked in and it was stellar.
- I experinced Everyday as a bit too much into your face, not the same nuances as on the rest of the songs, bordering to harsch on some of the cymbals.

The cons aside, I am really happy with this release and I guess it will get at least a 9 from me when I have given it some more time.

 

[alk3997]

The LFE is there but, as I mentioned in a previous append, it is a full frequency mix of the drums and bass guitar. So, I suspect your subwoofer is handling that differently then the mastering engineer intended. You might try temporarily "tweaking" the LFE level to compensate.

 

[fredblue]

my 2 cents re: Bass/LFE in this instance, is that this new Moondance BD-A is to all intents and purposes a Warner DVD-Audio Adv'd Res 6-channel mix (that's what it was all set up for and delivered to Warner by Elliot S. and Co., 10+ years ago) and all of those Warner DVD-Audio's from that era sound best (imho) running Front L&R Full Range (i.e. Large) unless you're running a Sub/Sat system where small satellites can't handle the LF info.

so.. FWIW, an experiment that's easy to do (and free!) if your speakers' rated frequency response is <60hz, try setting your Front Left & Right to Large (most AVR's & processors call them that, as opposed to Small; leave your subwoofer connected and set as usual) and see if it helps at all with bass response.

plus, a little double check on your sub calibration (for MultiCh music, as opposed to movies) can work wonders, whether you've got big hefty speakers or little diddy satellites.

it's easy to have a sub out of phase, turned up too low, or crossed over at the wrong frequency without knowing it if you haven't tested it with tones and an SPL (Audyssey & other auto setup routines can only do so much and the cheaper AVRs & processors seldom have decent sub auto-calibration routines) and either one of those when adjusted can really help in-room bass response, etc. like I said just my two'pennuth, YMMV etc.

 

[The Bright Side]

Hey guys, the Blu Ray plays perfectly on my BDP-83... I have a region free modification chip built in though, so perhaps that makes a difference? As for the mix, I'll need to listen another couple of times but I'm pretty sure I'm giving this a 10 as well. Just amazing.

 

[bnyhof]

Hey guys, the Blu Ray plays perfectly on my BDP-83... I have a region free modification chip built in though, so perhaps that makes a difference? As for the mix, I'll need to listen another couple of times but I'm pretty sure I'm giving this a 10 as well. Just amazing.

It plays fine on my Oppo BDP-93, also with a region free mod chip.

 

[JonUrban]

For those who like looking at them, here is a screen shot of the 5.1 mix in Sound Forge. What's really strange is that in the 5th track, there's a lyric like "When the foghorn whistle blows", and you can see in the wave file that the fog horn is in the LFE!!

What's up with that? If I pull that LFE wav file and listen to it in a normal speaker, you can clearly hear sax's and horns doing the "foghorn whistle", but in the mix, it never makes it out of the sub woofer.

Most bizarre! Almost like someone messed up! (?)

 

[perzon57]

I have playback problems on my Oppo bdp 83.Dropouts on every track.Plays fine on my Toshiba BD player.
It sounds very good,and I love the music.Gave it a 9.

Regards

 

[leevitalone1]

I have playback problems on my Oppo bdp 83.Dropouts on every track.Plays fine on my Toshiba BD player.
It sounds very good,and I love the music.Gave it a 9.

Regards

Is the Oppo up to date with firmware? If not, contact them. I'm sure they would come up with a fix, plus like to know that.

 

[alk3997]

I have playback problems on my Oppo bdp 83.Dropouts on every track.Plays fine on my Toshiba BD player.
It sounds very good,and I love the music.Gave it a 9.

Regards

Thanks that helps my analysis of the BDP-93. Mine has the latest firmware - updated last Tuesday automatically. I still wonder if this is a bad batch of discs but you're pretty far away from U.S. Amazon distribution.