HiRez Poll Morrison, Van - MOONDANCE [Blu-Ray Audio]

[perzon57]

I bought my Moondance set from a Norwegian retailer.My 83 is not on the latest software. I read somewhere that later software editions may affect the function of the sone free set in my Oppo player.

Regards

 

[fredblue]

For those who like looking at them, here is a screen shot of the 5.1 mix in Sound Forge. What's really strange is that in the 5th track, there's a lyric like "When the foghorn whistle blows", and you can see in the wave file that the fog horn is in the LFE!!

What's up with that? If I pull that LFE wav file and listen to it in a normal speaker, you can clearly hear sax's and horns doing the "foghorn whistle", but in the mix, it never makes it out of the sub woofer.

Most bizarre! Almost like someone messed up! (?)

thanks for the info Jon

do you get the "foghorn" if you set Front L&R to large and/or shut your sub(s) off?

 

[inquadwetrust]

thanks for the info Jon

do you get the "foghorn" if you set Front L&R to large and/or shut your sub(s) off?

I'd be interested to hear Jon's findings but I'm full range 4.0 with the Onkyo handling the blending of the sub and centre channel and it sounds normal to my ears at least. Results may vary!

 

[leevitalone1]

I read somewhere that later software editions may affect the function of the sone free set in my Oppo player

never heard that one,again, I would approach Oppo and ask them.

 

[0tto]

For those who like looking at them, here is a screen shot of the 5.1 mix in Sound Forge. What's really strange is that in the 5th track, there's a lyric like "When the foghorn whistle blows", and you can see in the wave file that the fog horn is in the LFE!!

What's up with that? If I pull that LFE wav file and listen to it in a normal speaker, you can clearly hear sax's and horns doing the "foghorn whistle", but in the mix, it never makes it out of the sub woofer.

Most bizarre! Almost like someone messed up! (?)

don't know about other albums but Greg Penny did same on EJ's "Captain Fantastic" 5.1 mix. LFE has full range audio stream.

 

[wavelength]

I haven't enjoyed a surround release this much since Aqualung. Of course it helps to be old enough to have been into the original release. Nevertheless Moondance is a-one-of-a-kind album. Another classic, a masterpiece to many, in high-rez with a very good surround mix. O happy day.

 

[DuncanS]

I hadn't heard this album in years as I never owned it (lots of other VM but not this one!). I haven't listened to the CDs yet, as I haven't managed to get past the 5.1 mix on Blu-ray. I gave it another listen today. Moondance is a very good album musically, which to me the 5.1 mix enhances. I like its 'discrete' mix with instruments well placed. The audio clarity is great considering how old the source was. I'm glad that after 10 years this mix is out in the wild. Its one of those really relaxing albums which is good to put on, listen to, and wind down. I'm going to give it a 10 as I find myself smiling when listening to it.

 

[cupboy]

....Nevertheless Moondance is a-one-of-a-kind album. Another classic, a masterpiece to many, in high-rez with a very good surround mix. O happy day.

The Edwin Hawkins Singers in surround. That would be interesting. Even in stereo that song sounded really good. Nice mix. Used to have the stereo 45.

 

[fredblue]

don't know about other albums but Greg Penny did same on EJ's "Captain Fantastic" 5.1 mix. LFE has full range audio stream.

IIRC the Yellow Brick Road DVD-A has full range info in the .1 channel too.. I could be wrong?

also, its not mandatory that the 6th channel has to be used purely for sub-bass info only, is it?

 

[byrdman7]

I have waited a l-o-n-g time for this one. A clear 10 IMHO.

 

[alk3997]

IIRC the Yellow Brick Road DVD-A has full range info in the .1 channel too.. I could be wrong?

also, its not mandatory that the 6th channel has to be used purely for sub-bass info only, is it?

Mandatory, no since the channel normally reserved for the LFE channel can be used for things like mono height or not be included at all. However, in this case it is clearly labeled as an LFE.

The whole intent of this is method of generating the LFE is that the engineer places all of the instruments with low bass in the LFE (at a lower level) and then lets the home electronics including the subwoofer act as a low pass filter. In many systems the subwoofer will get the full frequency range signal and then reproduce as much of the bass as it can. That can change directionality since the subwoofer can go into the 120+ Hz range.

In my car, for instance, the subwoofer goes up to 150Hz and then start tailing off until no frequencies above 200Hz can be heard.

A very simple low pass filter (without causing any unintended delay in the signal) can take care of this problem if the producers / mastering engineers would have done it. But, it is a valid signal to send out. I believe Dolby Digital has a requirement to low pass the LFE (and I forget if DTS is mandatory) but that's the way these discs including the Elton John SACDs (and a few others) were shipped.

It is unfortunately not unusual and that we normally don't notice seems to imply that it's an OK way to handle the LFE.

 

[JonUrban]

Here's a closer look at the LFE in the "foghorn" section of "INTO THE MYSTIC". Remember, I am looking at a 6 channel wav file, listening to individual channels. Speaker size and range do not come into play on the PC.

It just seems that this particular piece of sound was put in the wrong place. I cropped out the mono LFE as highlighted in the screen shot, converted it to MP3 so you can listen to it solo on you PC speaker as a wav file, not through a sub woofer.

What do you all think?

https://www.quadraphonicquad.com/miscstuff/Sound1.mp3

 

[fredblue]

looks like a goof sadly.. Yes.. I appreciate all the info.. but I feel like I'm missing the point or something?

Speaker size (etc) settings do come into play away from the PC, via receiver and disc player combo, which is how I feel a lot of people still do their surround music listening..

..so if you switch off your sub or leave it on and set your Front L&R speakers to Large, they will play that bit of the LFE track (that shouldn't be there?) and you won't miss out on anything, right? confuuuusinnnnggg!!

 

[JonUrban]

..so if you switch off your sub or leave it on and set your Front L&R speakers to Large, they will play that bit of the LFE track (that shouldn't be there?) and you won't miss out on anything, right? confuuuusinnnnggg!!

Ah, yes. I see that. I was referring to listening on the PC. If you set your home system to "no sub", I would imagine that would apply.

 

[fredblue]

Ah, yes. I see that. I was referring to listening on the PC. If you set your home system to "no sub", I would imagine that would apply.

do you only playback your SACDs/DVDA/DTS/BDA etc thru the PC now, Jon?

kudos to you if you do, I find it so hard to break the habit of the ritual of taking the disc off the shelf, opening it up, sticking the disc on, looking through the liners while it plays and then getting up when it's over and doing it all over again with the next disc.. it's some of the best exercise (and reading!) I get! :ugham:

 

[JonUrban]

do you only playback your SACDs/DVDA/DTS/BDA etc thru the PC now, Jon?

kudos to you if you do, I find it so hard to break the habit of the ritual of taking the disc off the shelf, opening it up, sticking the disc on, looking through the liners while it plays and then getting up when it's over and doing it all over again with the next disc.. it's some of the best exercise (and reading!) I get! :ugham:

JHFC Fred. If you must know. NO, I don't just listen on my PC. I happen to listen to more surround in my car than anywhere else, which is why this disc is currently IN my PC, as I have to convert it to a DVD-A to play in the car!

(UPDATE FOR OTHERS IN THE SAME BOAT: No Watermarks!! So this original DVD-A did not get far enough along in the release process to have the watermark installed in the audio - THANKFULLY! )

When I get the chance I do like to settle down, look at the jacket, and listen on the big system. Those opportunities, however, are far and few between.

 

[fredblue]

JHFC Fred. If you must know. NO, I don't just listen on my PC. I happen to listen to more surround in my car than anywhere else, which is why this disc is currently IN my PC, as I have to convert it to a DVD-A to play in the car! (I hope there is no watermark in it, now that I think about it) :yikes

When I get the chance I do like to settle down, look at the jacket, and listen on the big system. Those opportunities, however, are far and few between.

sorry for being nosey! enquiring minds need to know these things! oh and I like to know too!

hope you get rid of that stubborn watermark! if there's a detergent that'll get it out! :spot

of course.. we all lead busy lives!

I have to force myself to take the time, say "screw the world!" for an hour or two, sit in the sweet spot and listen to this surround stuff or there's no point getting it!

case in point; I've the most wonderful friend also in London who's as hardcore into surround music as any of us here at QQ (he won't join up, I've tried getting him to but chatting online is not his thing.. unlike his buddy!! Ha!) and he's often doing the cleaning (sometimes even hoovering!) and stuff while he has surround on these days!

I tell him off and say what's the use in that!? Get ON your derrière and do the right thing by these discs! Somebody spent hours & days locked in the studio mixing them in surround for your benefit! Shuffling about the place doing household chores with them on in the background is not cricket!! LOL!! :smack:

 

[dr8track]

Loving it! I give the blu ray a definite 10. Don't really care that I had to pay for all the extra stuff, which I likely will only listen to a time or two. It's all worth it for the surround mix on blu ray of this great album.
I see some folks were having playback issues with the Oppo. It is slightly funky on my Oppo BP 83, but is playing fine. When I first put the disc in the pause function was not working. Seems to have sorted itself out somehow and all seems good at this point.

 

[uffeolby]

The LFE is there but, as I mentioned in a previous append, it is a full frequency mix of the drums and bass guitar. So, I suspect your subwoofer is handling that differently then the mastering engineer intended. You might try temporarily "tweaking" the LFE level to compensate.

I don't do any base management and my front speakers are set to Large. There is a LFE signal coming to the sub but it is as I said before barely audible. Furthermore the base response on all other songs than the title track is very good, so it is an isolated problem for me for one track only. I usally do not tweak or adjust levels between records and i definitely do not for specific tracks...

Am I the only one who experience this? good base output on all songs except for the title track.

 

[fredblue]

I don't do any base management and my front speakers are set to Large. There is a LFE signal coming to the sub but it is as I said before barely audible. Furthermore the base response on all other songs than the title track is very good, so it is an isolated problem for me for one track only. I usally do not tweak or adjust levels between records and i definitely do not for specific tracks...

Am I the only one who experience this? good base output on all songs except for the title track.

it will be barely audible in the sub because the sub itself will top out by design (somewhere between 120 and 150hz if its a beastie and upto 250hz in a sub/sat.) and only playback sub-bass and bass depending on crossover set in AVR/pre-pro etc and not be able to resolve the rest of the track's bass, mid-bass, midrange, upper mid & treble.

if you're running speakers full-range, you may still need to switch your subwoofer Off altogether in your AVR/processor settings, not physically at the sub's own power supply if its "active" I mean (different receivers/processors/players handle all this stuff differently unfortunately) in order to downmix the 6-ch and the full "LFE" track (in this mixes case in name only) contents will be heard in your Front Left & Right.

there are other discs (DVD-A & SACD) where this phenomenon occurs, as has been mentioned the Elton John discs are among those.

the Yellow Brick Road DVDA & Captain Fantastic SACD are very different experiences depending on how you're setup due to LFE full range content.

Try this little demo as an experiment "Tell Me When The Whistle Blows" from
"Captain Fantastic" first with Fronts set to Small and 80hz crossover, then Fronts set to Large and Sub On, then Fronts set to Large with Sub Off.. and I think you'll be rather surprised at the results

IIRC there are also older Warner DVD-A's (from the 2000-2003 time period) with LFE tracks that contain higher frequency info than most subs can resolve and so you may need to set Sub Off for some of those discs too so your Mains/Front L&R play the material back fully.

Maybe all this stuff about LFE channel use on surround music discs should be moved to its own sticky? its a general kind of thing and not strictly isolated to this new Moondance BDA..?