New Surround Master coming! Its a jump to the left and a step to the right

[beerking]

What is the model number of your receiver? I will check

Hi Chucky
It's a Marantz SR8012
Cheers

 

[chucky3042]

PROGRESS REPORT

Dave the Bitch (Overture) and Chris have completed revisions today and component orders are being place. I will post a 3D render of the new new board tomorrow complete with around 8 more chips and 2 relays (from memory)

 

[Soundfield]

PROGRESS REPORT

around 8 more chips and 2 relays

That sounds like a fairly substantial mod - are you going to have do another prototype?

 

[chucky3042]

Hi Chucky
It's a Marantz SR8012
Cheers

OK the rear of your amp has a bunch of RCA inputs above the heading "7 CHANNEL IN" . These are the ones you connect the SM outputs to. Then set the output control for the 7 channel external

 

[chucky3042]

That sounds like a fairly substantial mod - are you going to have do another prototype?

Nup, we (Dave the Bitch) are pretty good at this sort of thing

 

[beerking]

OK the rear of your amp has a bunch of RCA inputs above the heading "7 CHANNEL IN" . These are the ones you connect the SM outputs to. Then set the output control for the 7 channel external

It sure does, I was looking at those earlier thinking they will come in handy!!
I'm sure it will all be fine!!
I wonder why the mods are necessary? I thought the production run was good to go? Or are there still final adjustments to be done?


But many thanks for checking out my reciever

 

[chucky3042]

It sure does, I was looking at those earlier thinking they will come in handy!!
I'm sure it will all be fine!!
I wonder why the mods are necessary? I thought the production run was good to go? Or are there still final adjustments to be done?


But many thanks for checking out my reciever

We will detail the nature of the changes tomorrow but it does give better control of the signal. No other final adjustments

 

[ar surround]

PROGRESS REPORT

Dave the Bitch (Overture) and Chris have completed revisions today and component orders are being place. I will post a 3D render of the new new board tomorrow complete with around 8 more chips and 2 relays (from memory)

I wonder why the mods are necessary? I thought the production run was good to go? Or are there still final adjustments to be done?

We will detail the nature of the changes tomorrow but it does give better control of the signal. No other final adjustments

Good things come to those who wait...at least that's what some girlfriend told me once...heh, heh...

 

[beerking]

Good things come to those who wait...at least that's what some girlfriend told me once...heh, heh...

Whoa I wonder if she is related to my wife......32 years later and I'm still waiting!!

 

[fredblue]

We will detail the nature of the changes tomorrow but it does give better control of the signal. No other final adjustments

is it the ability to cancel out Centre Front vocals that have bled to the Rears?

 

[Mark Anderson]

Hi Chucky
It's a Marantz SR8012
Cheers

I have a 7011 which is very similar to your receiver and use the zone 3 output to the SM input and the SM outputs to the 7.1 channel in.
Set Zone 3 to the source you want to send to the SM and select the 7.1 channel input which is assignable to any input as I recall

 

[beerking]

I have a 7011 which is very similar to your receiver and use the zone 3 output to the SM input and the SM outputs to the 7.1 channel in.
Set Zone 3 to the source you want to send to the SM and select the 7.1 channel input which is assignable to any input as I recall

Many thanks Mark for the detailed reply

 

[chucky3042]

is it the ability to cancel out Centre Front vocals that have bled to the Rears?

Hi Fred Blue

The center front vocals should not bleed to the rear......please explain?

 

[boxhead]

Hi Fred Blue

The center front vocals should not bleed to the rear......please explain?

You may need to explain Pauline to our international friends Chucky!

Sent from my K5000 using Tapatalk

 

[fredblue]

Hi Fred Blue

The center front vocals should not bleed to the rear......please explain?

it's not an issue with Involve mode and QS decodes, they're all fab and dandy! it's with SQ stuff only.

 

[Clint Eastwood]

Good things come to those who wait...at least that's what some girlfriend told me once...heh, heh...

 

[kfbkfb]

The Pspatial Audio CD-4 Decoder uses Ambisonics to (among other things)
reroute the original (intended for a square 4 speaker array) quadraphonic input
content for correct playback imaging using the ITU 5 speaker arrangement.

Do the Surround Master Decoder 5.1 modes do any sort of rerouting or is it
intended for the (classic quadraphonic) square 4 speaker array with an added
center speaker (and possibly a subwoofer)?

Kirk Bayne

 

[J. PUPSTER]

The Birds and the Bees…

We’ll settle on just birds, specifically the Western Meadowlark (My fav.)

I just want to review some equipment connections for myself and others here to make sure we understand the basics. If I’m right just give me a quick pet and a large bone to chew on, and I’ll be on my way; if not you might need to “Corrrect Me” (with a slight roll to the Rs) as in Jack and the Butler in “The Shinning.”

Consider you’re a couple of Meadowlark parents raising 4 young chicks (representing speakers.) The parents represent a couple of song birds (artists) that want to record their songs or (pass along) to their chicks. Their songs are analog, and by mating they produce eggs which then passes their traits (signals) on to the chicks.

So, to the equipment, we need a way to pass the songs “analog” all the way through to the speakers (the chicks.) Typically, it was i.e. vinyl LPs and Q8 tapes (analog), they go via RCA stereo/quad cables to a pre-amp then to an amplifier and finally to the speakers. Modern AVRs are a combination of Pre-Pro (pre-amp / processor) and amplifier. The pre-amp conditions the signals before intake into the amplifier which powers the analog signal to the speakers. The processor switches inputs to outputs and controls any processing to be done, i.e. treble / bass management & DPLXII etc.

In the case of digital media i.e. RBCDs, DVD-A, Blu-ray etc., they need to be converted somewhere in the chain back into an analog signal for the speakers. This is handled by chips or (micro-processors) called D.A.C. s or “Digital-to-Analog Converter.” The digital signal from the disc can be processed by the player’s D.A.C.s like an Oppo and sent direct to the amplifier, by-passing your AVRs Pre-Amp (this is considered “direct” by using 5.1 or more, RCA cables); or you can elect to send the signals via a digital method like HDMI, S/PDIF -Toslink or coaxial, and let your processor use its D.A.C.s to convert to analog.

Either way, before getting to the speakers, the signals must be converted back to analog.

So, in the case of the Surround Master, I assume the intake of only two stereo RCA connectors are analog either coming from an analog source like a turntable, or a digital device like a CD / DVD-A player via onboard D.A.C. to analog; at which time the Surround Master takes the signal and processes it in various ways and then sends it on to your Pre-Pro as a pass-through analog signal either quad or 5.1 etc.

So, no matter how its accomplished, the process is to get the original analog signal to the end of the chain, whether it be 4 speakers or 4 hungry chicks, so they can continue to sing.

Whatever happens, for best results – Keep feedin’ those hungry chicks for optimum happiness.

• Any “Corrrections” are enthusiastically encouraged!

 

[proufo]

... and 2 relays

Promising.

 

[sjcorne]

it's not an issue with Involve mode and QS decodes, they're all fab and dandy! it's with SQ stuff only.

I have to agree with Adam (@fredblue) on this one. A good QS LP (think very discrete ABC titles like Can't Buy A Thrill or Rags To Rufus) through this unit can honestly stand up to a Q8. The vocals are almost completely wiped from the rears, and discrete rear channel content barely leaks to the fronts. It performs at least as good, if not better, than my Sansui QSD-2, which is a very well-regarded QS decoder.

Unfortunately, the SQ decoding leaves me a bit underwhelmed. It was a considerable upgrade from my old Lafayette SQ-W that would produce audible volume "pumping", but the lead vocals still leak to the rears enough to the point where it can be distracting.

What's really interesting (and Adam has pointed this out on numerous occasions), is that the lead vocal crosstalk is wiped out when you sum the rears to mono. When I would do an SQ conversion with my SM, I would blend the rears slightly in Audacity before exporting: this would increase the front-center to back-center separation at the cost of slightly reducing the wide stereo spread in the rears. Columbia quad mixes intentionally had isolated instruments in each rear speaker, as they were designed to be encoded to SQ and then decoded back, so the slight blending wasn't all that noticeable.

I was recently lucky enough to pick up a Fosgate Tate II, and I'm sorry to say it bests the SM at decoding SQ material. The lead vocal is wiped from the rears, with only some minor artifacts left behind. Some titles come strikingly close to their Q8 equivalents. Aerosmith's Toys In The Attic, an oddly-mixed Columbia quad title that the SM struggled with, decodes extremely well with this unit.

Now I definitely don't want to dissuade anyone from picking up one of these units: Involve is doing us a real service by taking the time to create such a niche product. This is a decoder specifically designed to work with obscure material that's been out-of-print for over forty years! Just wrap your head around that. Not to mention it's two decoders in one (SQ and QS), and the stereo-to-surround synthesis is very impressive. I haven't done a careful comparison yet, but I seem to prefer it to both the Sansui's "synthesizer" setting and the Fosgate's "surround" setting.

Now the Tate might be better at decoding SQ, but those units are extremely rare (to say the least), expensive, and have all the baggage that comes with vintage gear. Mine was sold to me in an in-person exchange by the original owner, who said it hadn't been powered on since the late-1980s! I paid more than the SM for something that I didn't even know would work. Luckily the gambit paid off, but I'm sure folks have been burned on used Tates in the past.

So I do think this is a great product, but the SQ decoding could be improved. I have to assume that the folks at Involve were conscientious of inducing artifacts and fidelity loss by pushing the separation envelope (some software-decoded SQ conversions I've heard sound very "phasey" or "metallic"), but I think even something as simple as a "blend" function for the rears, as Adam has advocated for in the past, would improve an already excellent product.