Opeth - Pale Communion 5.1 (Blu-ray)

[IMachine]

Yes

 

[Robert van Diggele]

You adjusted FR instead if FL?

Yes you are right, I tried FL

 

[Robert van Diggele]

You need to invert the phase on the Front Left AND LFE channels or there will still be cancellation going on.

Thanks Dave.

 

[Simon_LDT]

You need to invert the phase on the Front Left AND LFE channels or there will still be cancellation going on.

What if you're not using a sub and setting all speakers to large?

 

[IMachine]

Yes you are right, I tried FL

The bassdrum had more punch as I listened to it in correct phase.
What I don't know is if the correction of 180 degrees is correct.
I didn't see a pic of the zoomed channels.
It could also be, that a correction inbetween would be correct.
If this is the case the end consumer can't do anything without a DAW.
I also have no blu-ray player in my pc.
So I can't transfer it to Cubase to have a look at it.

Dave: Could you post some zoomed in pix of the channels?

 

[IMachine]

What if you're not using a sub and setting all speakers to large?

Then you still have a problem with your FL not in phase to the other speakers FR, SR, SL because every channel has bass.

 

[Robert van Diggele]

The bassdrum had more punch as I listened to it in correct phase.
What I don't know is if the correction of 180 degrees is correct.
I didn't see a pic of the zoomed channels.
It could also be, that a correction inbetween would be correct.
If this is the case the end consumer can't do anything without a DAW.
I also have no blu-ray player in my pc.
So I can't transfer it to Cubase to have a look at it.

Dave: Could you post some zoomed in pix of the channels?

I noticed the extra punch on the bass drum. Bass as an instruments not a real improvement. That 180 degrees was not an improvement, so probably not a solution.

 

[keenly]

The bassdrum had more punch as I listened to it in correct phase.
What I don't know is if the correction of 180 degrees is correct.
I didn't see a pic of the zoomed channels.
It could also be, that a correction inbetween would be correct.
If this is the case the end consumer can't do anything without a DAW.
I also have no blu-ray player in my pc.
So I can't transfer it to Cubase to have a look at it.

Dave: Could you post some zoomed in pix of the channels?

Now I am really confused.

 

[Plan9]

We have pinpointed the problem and it came from authoring.

Paschal Byrne's 5.1 mastering is fine. All he did was filter the LFE, bring up the vocals, and a slight EQ on the rest, no phase invertion.

If I hear anything new I'll let you know.

 

[capsid]

I can switch the phase 180 degrees on my REL quake, so I did so and then swapped the lead polarity on the FL speaker. Maybe I can hear a richer bass and punchier bass drum but it's not night and day for me.

 

[Thonolan]

I can switch the phase 180 degrees on my REL quake, so I did so and then swapped the lead polarity on the FL speaker. Maybe I can hear a richer bass and punchier bass drum but it's not night and day for me.

There is a difference, on my system at least. It's very noticeable. The snare sounds very different as well, just like it does on the correct stereo mix. But the most important thing I notice after correcting the phase issue is that the "hole" in the soundscape I was talking about is gone. Now it does sound full and balanced. Maybe it has something to do with my room acoustics as well.

 

[Nimbatus]

There is a difference, on my system at least. It's very noticeable. The snare sounds very different as well, just like it does on the correct stereo mix. But the most important thing I notice after correcting the phase issue is that the "hole" in the soundscape I was talking about is gone. Now it does sound full and balanced. Maybe it has something to do with my room acoustics as well.

It's not your room. Inverting the phase on one channel has dramatic effects on the sound and it's very easy to hear it. Just as easy as it was for me to figure out something has to be wrong with the channel's phases the first few seconds after I started listening to it for the first time. I think I was the first one here to point out the phase issue since it's very noticeable and irritating to me.

 

[capsid]

Can you be more explicit about what the dramatic effect is and what I should be listening for? How do you hear a hole in the soundscape? I'm listening for differences in the depth of the bass drum and guitar and how much it might make the room shake if I put the volume up (maybe I should do that).

When I play test DVDs that play out of phase sounds then the difference is there but quite subtle for me.

 

[Nimbatus]

Can you be more explicit about what the dramatic effect is and what I should be listening for?

You could try it with a standard CD track. When you invert one channel, the whole sound field falls apart making it impossible to really distinguish where a signal is coming from. To me it starts to sound like the audio source is sitting somewhere between my ears, almost like I would listen to headphones. Also, when you focus on anything that's centered in the mix, vocals, bass guitar, kick and snare drum, you'll notice that they're quite lower in volume.

You might know those widening effects on older amps, where you were able to enhance the stereo field by flipping a switch. What happens here, the amp mixes the original signal with a phase inverted one much lower in volume, making your brain believe that your speakers are standing more apart from each other than they actually do.

 

[keenly]

I can switch the phase 180 degrees on my REL quake, so I did so and then swapped the lead polarity on the FL speaker. Maybe I can hear a richer bass and punchier bass drum but it's not night and day for me.

In the sense of it wasn't that bad to begin with? Or it still sounds poor?

 

[capsid]

In the sense of it wasn't that bad to begin with? Or it still sounds poor?

It was never bad to begin with.

 

[Thonolan]

How do you hear a hole in the soundscape?

It's what Nimbatus explained, but regarding this, as I've been the only who has used that expression as far as I know, it's like I've got a blocked ear, like what you feel when you're driving in altitude or you have an excess of earwax... but only in the left ear.

 

[capsid]

You could try it with a standard CD track. When you invert one channel, the whole sound field falls apart making it impossible to really distinguish where a signal is coming from. To me it starts to sound like the audio source is sitting somewhere between my ears, almost like I would listen to headphones. Also, when you focus on anything that's centered in the mix, vocals, bass guitar, kick and snare drum, you'll notice that they're quite lower in volume.

You might know those widening effects on older amps, where you were able to enhance the stereo field by flipping a switch. What happens here, the amp mixes the original signal with a phase inverted one much lower in volume, making your brain believe that your speakers are standing more apart from each other than they actually do.

I thought that the bass from a sub was not directional anyway, or is that just LFE?

 

[Nimbatus]

I thought that the bass from a sub was not directional anyway, or is that just LFE?

I'm talking about a full range signal, not the LFE.

 

[IMachine]

The room treatment is surely a factor.
If the room is an acoustic desaster you won't hear as much diffences as in a well treated room.
To me all is more clearly. It turns to a tense mix if I do the correction.
Before the bassdrum made "ooomhp"...no "kick" in the sound.