Opeth - Pale Communion 5.1 (Blu-ray)

[François]

If you invert the LFE you get wall shaking bass ! This is how it should sound. (the "fixed" disc is really disappointing)

 

[Nimbatus]

Yes, the LFE is inverted on my corrected files as the fixed disc is still faulty. A real shame to Roadrunner.

Nevertheless, the problem is not that there is not enough bass. It's more than enough with a bassdrum that is sometimes overbearing the mix and lacking attack and definition. To me these are one of the worst sounding drums in a recent production.

 

[Frogmort]

I just typed this up before work today, but havent sent it yet. I would appreciate any opinions from you guys on the wording, punctuation, what I've mentioned or forgot to mention, and also if anyone knows the best place(s) to submit this to. I would've spoilered it, but I don't see that option on here. Thanks for your input:
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This is in reference to the Opeth - Pale Communion deluxe edition set with the blu-ray audio disc. I specifically bought this set solely for the 5.1 blu-ray audio disc, but discovered that there was an authoring error where the left front speaker channel and the LFE (low-frequency effects - also known as the 'point-one' in 5.1) subwoofer speaker channel are both inverted (out of phase) compared to all of the other channels.

This was apparently brought to your attention, as a replacement disc was issued that was supposed to correct the problem. Unfortunately, the "corrected" disc is only partially fixed; The left front speaker has been fixed and is now correctly in phase with the other speakers, but the LFE (.1) subwoofer channel on this disc is still inverted (out of phase).

While I honestly appreciate your efforts to fix this, it is a bit frustrating that after being made aware of the specific problems with this disc, the "corrected" disc still has the LFE channel out of phase.

In my searching about problems with this disc I was made aware of illegal downloads of truly, fully corrected files of the 5.1 audio, but I would rather not support such things, and I would also much rather have a proper blu-ray disc directly from your company, but as of now it seems a real shame to me that people who legitimately bought this album from you can't listen to a proper version of it, yet the people who illegally download it for free on the internet get a 100% properly fixed version.

Again, while I really do appreciate your company's efforts to make this right by issuing a replacement disc, when I look through my blu-ray audio disc collection to decide what I want to listen to, I usually skip over this title because of the LFE (.1) channel still being out of phase with all of the other channels, and when I do listen to this title, it's always in the back of my mind, as to what it could sound like, and should sound like according to the way Opeth and Steven Wilson (who did the 5.1 audio mix) intended it to sound, as the bass (specifically the mid-bass) sounds very thin and a bit muddy.

I would even be willing to pay again for a 100% properly corrected disc of this album, as I really love the music on it and I also really love 5.1 mixes of studio albums, particularly those done by Steven Wilson.

Thank you for your time.

 

[Lute]

I don't have this Bluray release yet, so I don't have direct knowledge of the problems you discussed. But, on a general note about grammar, you might want to organize some of the long sentences in these paragraphs. I hope you don't mind. I took the liberty of rewriting some of them. Good luck with getting an official version with a proper 5.1.


In my search for answers about problems with this disc I was made aware of illegal downloads of truly and fully corrected files of the 5.1 audio, but I would rather not support such things. I would much rather have a proper blu-ray disc directly from your company. As of now, however, it seems a real shame to me that people who legitimately bought this album from you can't listen to a proper version of it, yet the people who illegally download it for free on the internet get a 100% properly fixed version.

Again, I really do appreciate your company's efforts to make this right by issuing a replacement disc. Unfortunately, when I look through my blu-ray audio disc collection to decide what I want to listen to, I usually skip over this title because of the LFE (.1) channel still being out of phase with all of the other channels. And when I do listen to this title, in the back of my mind there is always the thought of what it could sound like, and should sound like, that being the correct way Opeth and Steven Wilson (who did the 5.1 audio mix) intended it to sound... and not this faulty version with the bass (specifically the mid-bass) sounding very thin and a bit muddy.

 

[MyCuff]

Not sure the comment about illegal downloads adds any value. Why would this encourage the company to issue a third disc? They already have your money so why would they care? More relevant would be to assure them you won't buy any future discs from them. BTW, I have the corrected copy and it is fine for me.

 

[Frogmort]

I don't have this Bluray release yet, so I don't have direct knowledge of the problems you discussed. But, on a general note about grammar, you might want to organize some of the long sentences in these paragraphs. I hope you don't mind. I took the liberty of rewriting some of them. Good luck with getting an official version with a proper 5.1.

Thank you for that. I like the way most of that flows better than mine, but I did notice that you started one sentence with 'And'. Other than that I'll incorporate it. Thanks again.

 

[Frogmort]

Not sure the comment about illegal downloads adds any value. Why would this encourage the company to issue a third disc? They already have your money so why would they care? More relevant would be to assure them you won't buy any future discs from them. BTW, I have the corrected copy and it is fine for me.

Thanks for your reply.

The most important points that I want to get across to them are:

1) Since they screwed up on the second try at fixing the inverted channels after it was explicitly explained to them which channels were affected, I wanted to be as specific about pointing out that the LFE/.1/subwoofer channel is still out of phase, even at the cost of being repetitive.

2) That while their own product from a reputable company is still problematic and faulty after having it explained to them what the problem was, some dude in his basement on a home pc figured out how to correct the problem and it is readily available for free in perfect quality on the internet, but not from them.

3) That it has affected my enjoyment of a product that I purchased in good faith from their company.

I'm just trying to be as upfront, honest, and polite as I can be, as that's the best way to get positive results from my experience. If they respond to me "Too bad, we're not fixing it again", then I will assure them I won't buy any future discs from them.

Also, while I agree that the relacement disc isn't that bad, if they did correct the inverted LFE channel and offered you a replacement, wouldn't you rather have that one?

 

[timbre4]

3) should be 'affected'


From QQ HQ

 

[Frogmort]

3) should be 'affected'


From QQ HQ

Thanks. I was just noticing that. I used it in 1) properly. Don't know why I got it wrong the second thyme.

 

[timbre4]

Grammar happens!


From QQ HQ

 

[Lute]

Thank you for that. I like the way most of that flows better than mine, but I did notice that you started one sentence with 'And'. Other than that I'll incorporate it. Thanks again.

My pleasure. Your letter was clear and well written. Perhaps toward the end, you were free writing a bit. We all do that. Just needed a little tweaking.

And you're correct about "And". In strict grammar we shouldn't start a sentence with "and" or "but". But... these days with the influence of the internet and the international use of English, the rules aren't as rigid. So, now starting a sentence with "and" or "but" is accepted... if grudgingly.

Anyway, I felt the "And" kept the original flow of your words. I am often asked to proofread other people's writing here in Japan. When I do it, I dislike changing other people's words. I feel it's best to keep the original expressions and grammar of the writer whenever possible.

Hope your efforts bare fruit. Even if it's difficult for companies to produce another version, I think it's important to let them know that some of us actually do care and do pay for our music. It never hurts to try.

Build up that good karma! :sun

 

[Frogmort]

Okay, so I finally sent my emails about this to:

http://redemptions.warnermusic.com/contacts/ and [email protected]

Anyone know of any other pertinent places that I should send it to?





:spot

 

[Ge Someone]

I compared LFE channel in phase and out phase. I prefer "out of phase" (like the "corrected" disc).
With correct phase the kick drum is too boomy (which is very noticeble in my room), even with LFE switched off I feel that way.
The anti-phase cancels out some of the ultra low end and to me that sounds more balanced. Of course this is a bit of a mess, and seems to indicate that maybe LFE was out of phase during mixing.

 

[Opethion]

I compared LFE channel in phase and out phase. I prefer "out of phase" (like the "corrected" disc).
With correct phase the kick drum is too boomy (which is very noticeble in my room)

I've tested it too, and I feel exactly the same. The kick drum is incredibly tight and powerful on the "corrected" disc.

 

[keenly]

I've tested it too, and I feel exactly the same. The kick drum is incredibly tight and powerful on the "corrected" disc.

The kick drum is indeed overpowering.

 

[keenly]

I compared LFE channel in phase and out phase. I prefer "out of phase" (like the "corrected" disc).
With correct phase the kick drum is too boomy (which is very noticeble in my room), even with LFE switched off I feel that way.
The anti-phase cancels out some of the ultra low end and to me that sounds more balanced. Of course this is a bit of a mess, and seems to indicate that maybe LFE was out of phase during mixing.

I too prefer it out of phase. I have a correct DVD A burned, and the replacement BS Blu Ray. Both lack bass guitar. I can't believe SW put this out as a finished product. When fully corrected the level of LFE coming from the drums is ridiculous. If the bass guitar was audible throughout this would be sublime.

 

[Frogmort]

Okay, so I finally sent my emails about this to:

http://redemptions.warnermusic.com/contacts/ and [email protected]

Anyone know of any other pertinent places that I should send it to?



View attachment 16612

:spot

Well, I obviously never got a response from them about my email from almost a year ago, but I recently bought a BD burner/ripper and after spending the better part of an afternoon today figuring out how the hell to do this, I finally have a real corrected version. I ripped the disc with DVDFab, then extracted the TrueHD and decompressed and separated the tracks to multi-channel wav files, then inverted the LFE channel with Audacity, then converted the output to flac files with Audiomuxer. After the fact, I realized that I could've saved a few steps by converting straight from TrueHD to flacs and then inverted them, but the end result should be exactly the same.

I checked out a few bits here and there comparing the inverted to the non-inverted, and since I run 7.1 with bass management on my speakers sent to 2 subs, the messed up version was cancelling a lot of the information out from the combined LFE channel info with the bass managed info from my other speakers. It sounded much more muddled. The newly fixed version sounds clearer, punchier, and more precise.

Unfortunately I have to head into work for a couple of hours, but I'm excited to finally check this out the proper way after having the blu-ray for almost a year without listening to it very much. Should go good with some beers on a Halloween night! :brew

 

[keenly]

Well, I obviously never got a response from them about my email from almost a year ago, but I recently bought a BD burner/ripper and after spending the better part of an afternoon today figuring out how the hell to do this, I finally have a real corrected version. I ripped the disc with DVDFab, then extracted the TrueHD and decompressed and separated the tracks to multi-channel wav files, then inverted the LFE channel with Audacity, then converted the output to flac files with Audiomuxer. After the fact, I realized that I could've saved a few steps by converting straight from TrueHD to flacs and then inverted them, but the end result should be exactly the same.

I checked out a few bits here and there comparing the inverted to the non-inverted, and since I run 7.1 with bass management on my speakers sent to 2 subs, the messed up version was cancelling a lot of the information out from the combined LFE channel info with the bass managed info from my other speakers. It sounded much more muddled. The newly fixed version sounds clearer, punchier, and more precise.

Unfortunately I have to head into work for a couple of hours, but I'm excited to finally check this out the proper way after having the blu-ray for almost a year without listening to it very much. Should go good with some beers on a Halloween night! :brew

A truly corrected corrected version actually sounds much worse, overwhelming bottom end on the drums. Bass guitar is not clear on any version, and often disappears.

 

[steelydave]

Why do you state these things as absolute fact? The properly corrected version sounds fantastic on my system, easily on par with SW's other heavier mixes. If you think that having an out of phase channel makes anything sound better you need to have your hearing checked, or your system calibrated properly.

 

[Frogmort]

Why do you state these things as absolute fact? The properly corrected version sounds fantastic on my system, easily on par with SW's other heavier mixes. If you think that having an out of phase channel makes anything sound better you need to have your hearing checked, or your system calibrated properly.

It could be his setup. That's why I specifically said that since I use bass management in my receiver to redirect the low end from my main speakers to the subs, it's getting combined with the actual LFE channel, and with part of that being in phase and part of it out of phase, it was causing all kind of cancellation problems. Maybe he doesn't bass manage, so just the LFE channel by itself is out of phase, or maybe it's what you said.