Ortofon - a miserable failure for CD-4

[Doug G.]

I'll just stick with doing CD-4 the old fashioned way.

Doug

 

[Owen Smith]

Someone here mentioned undoing Q8 cartridges and playing them on a reel to reel. Brilliant imo. It would reduce the wow and flutter from the cartridge format. Probably a very hard to source tape head. Maybe take the head out of a player and mount it on a reel to reel.

The bias and EQ etc will be wrong unless you also use the playback chain from the Q8 deck on the reel to reel. ArmyOfQuad has/had the means to do this.

 

[Owen Smith]

And many of the digital recording formats I have used in the past won't play on Windows 10.

If you play them using VLC there should be no problem. Microsoft may have dropped support for some older digital codecs but VLC won't have.

 

[barfle]

I have several CDs and CDRs that have quit playing right due to internal deterioration.

There is a format called M-disc that supposedly will last a thousand years. The discs are expensive, of course, but Jeff’s (Amazon) has them available in CD and DVD at least.

 

[Sonik Wiz]

There is a format called M-disc that supposedly will last a thousand years. The discs are expensive, of course, but Jeff’s (Amazon) has them available in CD and DVD at least.

I use the M-Disc extensively. There's also M Blu-ray. All my family video & audio upmix projects archived on this. Anyone considering using this type of disc please note it takes a special burner with a higher powered laser in it.

 

[MidiMagic]

There is a format called M-disc that supposedly will last a thousand years. The discs are expensive, of course, but Jeff’s (Amazon) has them available in CD and DVD at least.

But if the software to play it disappears, what good is it?

This is one more reason I like the phono record. If we had an electromagnetic pulse that destroyed all digital devices, I could still rig up something (tube?) to play records on my Collaro.

 

[par4ken]

Since I purchased my Audio Technica ART9XA I've been doing vinyl rips (needle drops) of stereo and matrix LP's. I decided to try my luck with CD-4 again.

This time I hooked up the Ortofon MCA-76 pre-preamplifier. I just listened to Cat Stevens "Greatest Hits" and no sandpaper! Now listening to the Japanese CD-4 Carpenters "Now & Then", sounds great. The MCA-76 has a CD4 switch setting, which adds some kind of filtering I don't know if that is improving CD4 performance or not when I switch it in and out I don't notice any difference.

Yes the ART9XA is expensive but it's a modern design moving coil with a shibata tip! And it sounds great!

​

 

[kfbkfb]

What stylus overhang/VTA adjustment tools are you using?

Do you use an ultrasonic disc cleaner?


Kirk Bayne

 

[jupp369]

yes of course but afaik they all captured the resultant demodulated 4-channel Quad rather than the undemodulated 2-channel of the CD-4 LP

Sorry, might be answered somewhere here, but:
Recording to which format ? wav/4, Flac ?
how to play back the demodulated 4CH ? Computer with ugraded Audio board ? Realtec software offers always 4Ch but not the needed hardware.

Could anyone please store such a CD-4 needledrop at: wav: music
and a CD-4 recording with Stereo Lab software

just want to see what it is

 

[fredblue]

Sorry, might be answered somewhere here, but:
Recording to which format ? wav/4, Flac ?
how to play back the demodulated 4CH ? Computer with ugraded Audio board ? Realtec software offers always 4Ch but not the needed hardware.

Could anyone please store such a CD-4 needledrop at: wav: music
and a CD-4 recording with Stereo Lab software

just want to see what it is

i record demodulated CD-4 discs in 4-channel using a CD-4 demodulator, a Mac, a MOTU multichannel audio interface and Audacity software, captured at 32-bit float/96kHz and saved as 96/24 MultiCh Flac. i then playback these files on the Mac in 4-channel on a Receiver via HDMI.

 

[par4ken]

What stylus overhang/VTA adjustment tools are you using?

Do you use an ultrasonic disc cleaner?


Kirk Bayne

I use a Geo-Disc.

I try to keep my records clean to begin with, just go over them with a Parastat at each playing.

A large part of of my record collection was treated years ago with Lifesaver record preservative or Last, they don't attract dust the same as untreated records.

I would like to get a record cleaning machine but can't justify the cost.

 

[Paul Pettegrove]

Since I purchased my Audio Technica ART9XA I've been doing vinyl rips (needle drops) of stereo and matrix LP's. I decided to try my luck with CD-4 again.

This time I hooked up the Ortofon MCA-76 pre-preamplifier. I just listened to Cat Stevens "Greatest Hits" and no sandpaper! Now listening to the Japanese CD-4 Carpenters "Now & Then", sounds great. The MCA-76 has a CD4 switch setting, which adds some kind of filtering I don't know if that is improving CD4 performance or not when I switch it in and out I don't notice any difference.

Yes the ART9XA is expensive but it's a modern design moving coil with a shibata tip! And it sounds great!

​

Success with CD-4, Congrats ! I've read somewhere that someone had similar success with the HANA SL cartridge. An MC Low Output Shibata. That cart is about $750, this Audio Technica, I just looked it up, is at $1500...

I've got the MCA-76 pre but . . . yikes !

 

[barfle]

But if the software to play it disappears, what good is it?

This is one more reason I like the phono record. If we had an electromagnetic pulse that destroyed all digital devices, I could still rig up something (tube?) to play records on my Collaro.

There is no more “software” involved in playing am M-disc than there is in playing any other sort of disc. At least that’s my understanding, as I haven’t actually burned and played any.

 

[gene_stl]

After a nuclear EMP , playing CDs will be the least of problems.

 

[par4ken]

I've always been a bit picky about adjusting my electronics, wanting everything to be bang on. Just wondering how people here adjust their Demodulators.

I'm using the Marantz CD400-B which has given me the best results of any Demodulator that I have tried. It has automatic carrier level so one less thing to adjust. I will have to check but I think that I have several CD4 adjustment records. I seem to remember the small JVC disc being the best one for alignment.

With CD4 being a rather complex system I wonder just how well calibrated the disc cutting system was. You could have slight variances from record to record. Even with stereo records channel balance can vary from one LP to another! So then tweak separation from one record to another and how? At one time I used headphones to listen to one set of front and back channels while adjusting separation, but even that seemingly fool proof method is not exact as extra out of phase audio will make the image sound wider even though misadjusted. Better then to adjust so that the demodulated difference signal is a bit lower than optimum to reduce noise and distortion?

The instructions with my old Grado cartridge said not to use the adjustment record, just turn the carrier level all the way up and set the separation controls to the mid position!

This brings me back to https://www.quadraphonicquad.com/forums/members/jupp369.15943/ suggestion of recording the full baseband signal tapped off a point inside the demodulator. Then you could then play back and tweak your demod all you want! Also with those difficult discs you could boost up the carrier level in software! I'm sure that I will try out that idea at some point, but not today!

Edit: I used the small JVC adjustment record and it worked fine.

 

[Sonik Wiz]

There is no more “software” involved in playing am M-disc than there is in playing any other sort of disc. At least that’s my understanding, as I haven’t actually burned and played any.

Yes you are correct. The M Disc requires a different burner but plays back on anything. PC, or disc spinners from old to new, cheap to Oppo, the ones I've made have never failed to play.

In general I am more comfortable with the longevity of digital formats. I got into digital with Win 3.1. Every thing & anything digital media from then to today I can play and enjoy. Meanwhile of the hundreds of pics I've taken on 120 roll film or 4x5 I have no idea where I could get them printed today. Haha I guess they would be digital scanned & printed out on high quality ink jet. Watching my 8mm/16mm movies would be a major science fair experiment too.

The positive comments made about the life expectancy of analog records is valid. But that's only if you don't play them! Something inherently wrong about a storage format that degrades a little each time you use it.

 

[MidiMagic]

There is no more “software” involved in playing am M-disc than there is in playing any other sort of disc. At least that’s my understanding, as I haven’t actually burned and played any.

I was talking about the playback of any CD drive. What if the CD format goes away and no players are left (like what happened to Beta)? Or worse, what if an electromagnetic pulse wiped out all of the digital players in the world?

 

[jupp369]

I use a Geo-Disc.

I try to keep my records clean to begin with, just go over them with a Parastat at each playing.

A large part of of my record collection was treated years ago with Lifesaver record preservative or Last, they don't attract dust the same as untreated records.

I would like to get a record cleaning machine but can't justify the cost.

I do it the same way as Lou wrote (what I discovered here now):
use a cleaner like acohol and don't forget to sweep the alcohol distortion away with clean water (I worked several years with copy machines. Cleaning that with Iso or Glass-clean helps only for a week - than you will no more get a blanc copy, it gets dirty gray)
When I was 15 - I got a staple of records preventing the owner to break them all. I cleaned them in the tub and playing them several times, cleaning always the needle. Now he was happy to get a good record of them.
Now I use normal dishwasher cleaner(?? - no spiritus available here), let it work, wash it away several times with water (and an akku screwdriver and carbon brush) and play it several times while always cleaning the needle.
If I found that article from Lou (in this forum, "a happy turnout" or so) again I will post it here.

be a little patience with your goodies !!
(mostly I use a non-shibata: VM35F eliptical from 1973 (up to 50kHz) for cleaning)

 

[gene_stl]

I have a short handful of vinyl LP records that I have played so many times, that I can't actually believe how good they continue to sound. But they do. Of course the worst setup they ever got played on was an AR-XA with an M75 cartridge at a bout 1.75 grams. Usually better and lighter.

 

[barfle]

Yes you are correct. The M Disc requires a different burner but plays back on anything. PC, or disc spinners from old to new, cheap to Oppo, the ones I've made have never failed to play.

In general I am more comfortable with the longevity of digital formats. I got into digital with Win 3.1. Every thing & anything digital media from then to today I can play and enjoy. Meanwhile of the hundreds of pics I've taken on 120 roll film or 4x5 I have no idea where I could get them printed today. Haha I guess they would be digital scanned & printed out on high quality ink jet. Watching my 8mm/16mm movies would be a major science fair experiment too.

The positive comments made about the life expectancy of analog records is valid. But that's only if you don't play them! Something inherently wrong about a storage format that degrades a little each time you use it.

I also scanned all my slides, prints and negatives several years ago, and haven’t used film for over a decade. Maybe two. I had a handful of 8mm movies scanned to DVD by Costco maybe ten years ago, too. I still hang onto about six original slides because of their sentimental value, but I always look at the digital scan on my TV. I believe the only other film-based media I own is a collection of Motorola Teleplayer films, a format that never took off but is so damned cool that I am probably the country’s most obsessed collector.