Pentatone 2016 Remastered Classics Quad SACDs planned releases

[4-earredwonder]

I thought it might interest people that the 1976 recording of Treemonisha that Pentatone released as a quad SACD in 2015 was recently inducted into the (USA) National Recording Registry: https://www.loc.gov/programs/nation...complete-national-recording-registry-listing/

I have this Günter Hermann's produced [and highly discrete] DGG recording but found it a bit underwhelming in its simplicity. Those expecting anything akin to Scott Joplin's melodious and highly infectious 'rags' will be sorely disappointed. Since Joplin's original manuscript for Treemonisha was destroyed in a flood, as a reconstruction, it is indeed admirable for all concerned.

Nitpicks, aside, Pentatone has done their usual yeoman's job in bringing Treemonisha to QUAD SACD replete with libretto and lovely packaging. It's definitely worth a listen!

Apparently, Graham Williams glowing review at HRAudio.net is in stark contrast to my assessment: http://hraudio.net/showmusic.php?title=10479#reviews

 

[ubertrout]

I have this Günter Hermann's produced [and highly discrete] DGG recording but found it a bit underwhelming in its simplicity. Those expecting anything akin to Scott Joplin's melodious and highly infectious 'rags' will be sorely disappointed. Since Joplin's original manuscript for Treemonisha was destroyed in a flood, as a reconstruction, it is indeed admirable for all concerned.

Nitpicks, aside, Pentatone has done their usual yeoman's job in bringing Treemonisha to QUAD SACD replete with libretto and lovely packaging. It's definitely worth a listen!

Apparently, Graham Williams glowing review at HRAudio.net is in stark contrast to my assessment: http://hraudio.net/showmusic.php?title=10479#reviews

The fact that Pentatone produced Treemonisha with the perfect digibook packaging they did for EUR 33 direct (and less from Amazon) should be a rebuke to the audiophile companies that charge far more for a single disc.

Also, Thomas Mowrey states that he, not Mr. Hermann, produced this: http://www.sa-cd.net/showthread/130022/130022

 

[4-earredwonder]

The fact that Pentatone produced Treemonisha with the perfect digibook packaging they did for EUR 33 direct (and less from Amazon) should be a rebuke to the audiophile companies that charge far more for a single disc.

Also, Thomas Mowrey states that he, not Mr. Hermann, produced this: http://www.sa-cd.net/showthread/130022/130022

My post initially listed Thomas Mowrey as producer but then I read Graham Williams review over @ HRAudio and changed my post.

And yes, ubertrout, both Pentatone releases of Bernstein's sensational Carmen and Treemonisha in such glorious packaging and stunning discrete Quadraphonic sonics SHOULD be somewhat of a wake up call to those reissue companies who gouge the public by charging upwards of $30 ~ $50 for SINGLE stereo only SACDs but unfortunately, the classical market has always been much, MUCH fairer with their pricing probably due to a shrinking classical marketplace and I'm sure the licensing fees charged by the majors (Universal's DGG/PHILIPS labels) is somewhat more amenable than what they charge for Popular fare.

I did, however, notice in the past month, a few of our local discount vendors are 'blowing' out around a dozen+ MoFi Stereo SACD popular/jazz titles for $12.50-15.50 down from their usual $30 list. Picked up two Miles Davis' SACD stereo titles. Just goes to show the mark~up on these discs. They probably sell them to these discount vendors for around $10~$11, wholesale.

 

[geronimo1958]

Does anyone know if these SACD's were released in stereo only SACD's or CD's? The reason I ask is because I have found some good prices on the Amazon third party sellers but often have found out later the listing by third party sellers is really for a different version (usually CD vs SACD). Trying to avoid unnecessary returns.

 

[Simon A]

Does anyone know if these SACD's were released in stereo only SACD's or CD's? The reason I ask is because I have found some good prices on the Amazon third party sellers but often have found out later the listing by third party sellers is really for a different version (usually CD vs SACD). Trying to avoid unnecessary returns.

Hi and welcome to QQ!

Pentatone only releases Hybrid SACDs so rest assured, if you see a good deal, jump on it and there won't be any bad surprises.

 

[geronimo1958]

Hi and welcome to QQ!

Pentatone only releases Hybrid SACDs so rest assured, if you see a good deal, jump on it and there won't be any bad surprises.

Awesome. Thank you for the quick reply.

 

[ubertrout]

Does anyone know if these SACD's were released in stereo only SACD's or CD's? The reason I ask is because I have found some good prices on the Amazon third party sellers but often have found out later the listing by third party sellers is really for a different version (usually CD vs SACD). Trying to avoid unnecessary returns.

As Simon said, a genuine Pentatone release will always be multichannel SACD as far as I know. Of course, most of the quad transfers they did had previously been released as regular CDs, but if it has Pentatone on the label...

 

[McCrutchy]

La Fanciulla del West is available for pre-order now:
http://www.pentatonemusic.com/rc-puccini-la-fanciulla-del-west-placido-domingo-zubin-mehta

I ordered this directly from Pentatone, and I received it today and am listening now. I am just getting into collecting classical, so I had never heard this opera, let alone this recording before, but it sounds wonderful. Sadly, my A/V receiver doesn't handle anything beyond two channels in DSD, so I am listening in PCM, but the multi-channel layer does sound more vivid. However, being new, what surprises me is how dynamic the recording is, in both formats.

One thing that does disappoint is the packaging. I noticed that Pentatone's other opera releases in this series seem to have an included libretto, possibly in some kind of book-style packaging. Not so here, and in fact, there is only a bilingual English/German booklet with a track listing and cast list, a short essay, and a one-page plot summary of the opera. The discs are placed in cardboard mini-LP style sheaths, which do have the cover art on them, and the relevant track listing on the back. The content is housed in a sturdy cardboard box, which is nice enough, but, especially given Pentatone's €32+ price, I would have preferred some kind of jewel case to hold the discs if a libretto wasn't going to be included. I have to admit that I also prefer the more colorful artwork featuring the singers used on the DG releases, to Pentatone's much more minimalist and seemingly unrelated flower displays. I'm sure that licensing fees may come into play, but I wonder if Pentatone are losing sales based on people not seeing famous faces and/or locations relevant to the recording.

However, the point of the release is the sound, not the packaging, and here the discs shine. I don't feel competent enough to critique it, but to me, the sound is really fabulous, and at times, it does seem fairly discrete, too. Suffice it to say, I'm very happy with my purchase, and given that the release is significantly cheaper at Amazon.de (where it is currently €27,99 including VAT, or €23,52), I wouldn't hesitate to pre-order there. Otherwise, hopefully Amazon.co.uk will start selling it directly soon, and Amazon.com and others will add it soon.

I hope Pentatone will continue with this series well into the future, and hopefully, add a few more releases soon. I think there is only one more planned for 2017, which seems a shame.

 

[luketsu]

I ordered this directly from Pentatone, and I received it today and am listening now. I am just getting into collecting classical, so I had never heard this opera, let alone this recording before, but it sounds wonderful. Sadly, my A/V receiver doesn't handle anything beyond two channels in DSD, so I am listening in PCM, but the multi-channel layer does sound more vivid. However, being new, what surprises me is how dynamic the recording is, in both formats.

One thing that does disappoint is the packaging. I noticed that Pentatone's other opera releases in this series seem to have an included libretto, possibly in some kind of book-style packaging. Not so here, and in fact, there is only a bilingual English/German booklet with a track listing and cast list, a short essay, and a one-page plot summary of the opera. The discs are placed in cardboard mini-LP style sheaths, which do have the cover art on them, and the relevant track listing on the back. The content is housed in a sturdy cardboard box, which is nice enough, but, especially given Pentatone's €32+ price, I would have preferred some kind of jewel case to hold the discs if a libretto wasn't going to be included. I have to admit that I also prefer the more colorful artwork featuring the singers used on the DG releases, to Pentatone's much more minimalist and seemingly unrelated flower displays. I'm sure that licensing fees may come into play, but I wonder if Pentatone are losing sales based on people not seeing famous faces and/or locations relevant to the recording.

However, the point of the release is the sound, not the packaging, and here the discs shine. I don't feel competent enough to critique it, but to me, the sound is really fabulous, and at times, it does seem fairly discrete, too. Suffice it to say, I'm very happy with my purchase, and given that the release is significantly cheaper at Amazon.de (where it is currently €27,99 including VAT, or €23,52), I wouldn't hesitate to pre-order there. Otherwise, hopefully Amazon.co.uk will start selling it directly soon, and Amazon.com and others will add it soon.

I hope Pentatone will continue with this series well into the future, and hopefully, add a few more releases soon. I think there is only one more planned for 2017, which seems a shame.

Thank you very much for this! According to PENTATONE (on Instagram) there'll be plenty of new RQR releases this year - DGG recorded everything in quad between 1970-1977 (and few albums after that) so they have a great potential. Personally I hope they have managed to receive original multi-channel tapes of Tchaikovsky's "Pique Dame" (Rostropovich, 1977) because they included it to their licensing wish list few years ago.

 

[ubertrout]

Thank you very much for this! According to PENTATONE (on Instagram) there'll be plenty of new RQR releases this year - DGG recorded everything in quad between 1970-1977 (and few albums after that) so they have a great potential. Personally I hope they have managed to receive original multi-channel tapes of Tchaikovsky's "Pique Dame" (Rostropovich, 1977) because they included it to their licensing wish list few years ago.

I looked at their Instagram (always another social media platform, I guess?), but I didn't see anything to say that. The video they included is the one they made for the first jump into Deutsche Grammophon in 2014: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nV8VGjfqIDU

 

[luketsu]

I looked at their Instagram (always another social media platform, I guess?), but I didn't see anything to say that. The video they included is the one they made for the first jump into Deutsche Grammophon in 2014: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nV8VGjfqIDU

Ubertrout, they answered "Definitely" to my comment. This gives a reason to think they will release many new albums this year.

 

[McCrutchy]

Thank you very much for this! According to PENTATONE (on Instagram) there'll be plenty of new RQR releases this year - DGG recorded everything in quad between 1970-1977 (and few albums after that) so they have a great potential. Personally I hope they have managed to receive original multi-channel tapes of Tchaikovsky's "Pique Dame" (Rostropovich, 1977) because they included it to their licensing wish list few years ago.

You're welcome, hopefully, they add more releases to their 2017 slate.

 

[luketsu]

More quad remasters:

September 2017
REMASTERED CLASSICS Beethoven - Symphonies 1 & 4
Rafael Kubelik, London Symphony Orchestra,
Ludwig van Beethoven

October 2017
REMASTERED CLASSICS Beethoven - Symphonies 2 & 5
Rafael Kubelik, Royal Concertgebouw Orchestra, Boston Symphony Orchestra,
Ludwig van Beethoven

November 2017
REMASTERED CLASSICS Beethoven - Symphonies 6, 7 & 8
Rafael Kubelik, Orchestre de Paris,
Ludwig van Beethoven

 

[ubertrout]

I congratulate Pentatone for its ambitious programming - this will only be their third Beethoven cycle - Herreweghe, Masur, and now Kubelik

I jest, mostly, and I'm interested to hear - although one question is whether the 3rd and 9th will be coming on subsequent releases. I also suspect the engineering may be different for each orchestra (the novelty of this cycle is that each symphony is played by a different one). For instance, will we hear the more active engineering of the Boston recordings, or the more subtle use of the surrounds DG made elsewhere?

As before, it seems like Pentatone is being granted licenses for DG recordings that perhaps are less than their best-known. However, the reviews of this cycle are excellent and there are some impressive orchestras on this bill who are at the tail end of their 50s/60s glory days - notably Boston and Cleveland. I'm curious.

 

[luketsu]

I congratulate Pentatone for its ambitious programming - this will only be their third Beethoven cycle - Herreweghe, Masur, and now Kubelik

I jest, mostly, and I'm interested to hear - although one question is whether the 3rd and 9th will be coming on subsequent releases. I also suspect the engineering may be different for each orchestra (the novelty of this cycle is that each symphony is played by a different one). For instance, will we hear the more active engineering of the Boston recordings, or the more subtle use of the surrounds DG made elsewhere?

As before, it seems like Pentatone is being granted licenses for DG recordings that perhaps are less than their best-known. However, the reviews of this cycle are excellent and there are some impressive orchestras on this bill who are at the tail end of their 50s/60s glory days - notably Boston and Cleveland. I'm curious.

I agree. Perhaps there'll be three or even four albums left for planning, who knows? I'm curious, too, and great that they have managed to receive more MCH tapes, indeed!

 

[ubertrout]

I agree. Perhaps there'll be three or even four albums left for planning, who knows? I'm curious, too, and great that they have managed to receive more MCH tapes, indeed!

It looks like they have one a month, at least scheduled - we'll see if that keeps up. The third and the ninth were recorded at the same time in 74-75, no reason they shouldn't release them unless there are rights issues.

 

[luketsu]

The Bartok RQR album (Concerto for Orchestra & Music for Strings, Percussion and Celesta) is available now for pre-order: https://www.pentatonemusic.com/remasteredclassics-bartok

 

[luketsu]

Well, it looks like we will not receive more RQR albums this year - or probably from this point onwards either. I don't know the reasons (I can only speculate the right answer) but let me say that something is really wrong.

I assume everybody here remember the excitement few years ago when PENTATONE released the first albums to the REMASTERED CLASSICS Series. The fact the yellow label utilized surround sound back then was such a great surprise that even scholars won't believe it. But gradually this ecstasy started to fall down. I was really worried when I noticed this and I sent an email to PENTATONE. It might sound weird but I beg, almost cried for continuation of the series. And surprisingly Dirk van Dijk himself answered: "We will release 10-15 albums for you". These were 10 Philips Classics reissues that were brought out in 2016.

OK, they have managed to return to DG. But it's not enough. "Over 250 entries are about to be released on SACD" says the article on Stereophile magazine. But it's a lie, at least now. Only 5 albums to be released this year and the next one is yet a mystery. Sorry but WHAT THE HECK IS GOING ON??!! It seems now the management at DG is trying to avoid surround sound as far as it is possible. And they don't want to give more licenses for a shit reason. OK, I know this hasn't been as simple as I just mentioned (it requires money and time) but still... Tchaikovsky's Pique Dame, Weber's Der Freischütz, Holst's The Planets, Berlioz's Romeo and Juliet... they are all there, ready for SACD productions. But no, "we want to keep these because they are too famous, too valuable". Bullshit, I say. It's all about selfishness - it should be interesting to give a chance to listen to these as they were originally meant to be heard (in surround).

DG recorded everything in quad between 1970-76 and numerous albums after that continuing it as long as to 1980 when a digital era passed analogue. You can only imagine how many 4-channel recordings are out there: hundreds, even thousands. If just PENTATONE could receive permission for 100 albums - 100 is a minor part from the whole.

 

[4-earredwonder]

Well, it looks like we will not receive more RQR albums this year - or probably from this point onwards either. I don't know the reasons (I can only speculate the right answer) but let me say that something is really wrong.

I assume everybody here remember the excitement few years ago when PENTATONE released the first albums to the REMASTERED CLASSICS Series. The fact the yellow label utilized surround sound back then was such a great surprise that even scholars won't believe it. But gradually this ecstasy started to fall down. I was really worried when I noticed this and I sent an email to PENTATONE. It might sound weird but I beg, almost cried for continuation of the series. And surprisingly Dirk van Dijk himself answered: "We will release 10-15 albums for you". These were 10 Philips Classics reissues that were brought out in 2016.

OK, they have managed to return to DG. But it's not enough. "Over 250 entries are about to be released on SACD" says the article on Stereophile magazine. But it's a lie, at least now. Only 5 albums to be released this year and the next one is yet a mystery. Sorry but WHAT THE HECK IS GOING ON??!! It seems now the management at DG is trying to avoid surround sound as far as it is possible. And they don't want to give more licenses for a shit reason. OK, I know this hasn't been as simple as I just mentioned (it requires money and time) but still... Tchaikovsky's Pique Dame, Weber's Der Freischütz, Holst's The Planets, Berlioz's Romeo and Juliet... they are all there, ready for SACD productions. But no, "we want to keep these because they are too famous, too valuable". Bullshit, I say. It's all about selfishness - it should be interesting to give a chance to listen to these as they were originally meant to be heard (in surround).

DG recorded everything in quad between 1970-76 and numerous albums after that continuing it as long as to 1980 when a digital era passed analogue. You can only imagine how many 4-channel recordings are out there: hundreds, even thousands. If just PENTATONE could receive permission for 100 albums - 100 is a minor part from the whole.

VERY distressing news. Pentatone did a stellar job with ALL their RQR Philips/DGG Quad SACD remasters but perhaps lack of sales and Universal's dismal approach to Surround have conspired to further halt any further releases in this fabulous series.

It seems the record conglomerates are becoming greedier and greedier and perhaps current licensing fees constitute more than Pentatone can absorb and hope to turn a profit. In the States, a lot of the discount vendors are charging $10~15 for these beautiful treasures and perhaps the profit margin just isn't there anymore.

 

[ubertrout]

Well, it looks like we will not receive more RQR albums this year - or probably from this point onwards either. I don't know the reasons (I can only speculate the right answer) but let me say that something is really wrong.

I assume everybody here remember the excitement few years ago when PENTATONE released the first albums to the REMASTERED CLASSICS Series. The fact the yellow label utilized surround sound back then was such a great surprise that even scholars won't believe it. But gradually this ecstasy started to fall down. I was really worried when I noticed this and I sent an email to PENTATONE. It might sound weird but I beg, almost cried for continuation of the series. And surprisingly Dirk van Dijk himself answered: "We will release 10-15 albums for you". These were 10 Philips Classics reissues that were brought out in 2016.

OK, they have managed to return to DG. But it's not enough. "Over 250 entries are about to be released on SACD" says the article on Stereophile magazine. But it's a lie, at least now. Only 5 albums to be released this year and the next one is yet a mystery. Sorry but WHAT THE HECK IS GOING ON??!! It seems now the management at DG is trying to avoid surround sound as far as it is possible. And they don't want to give more licenses for a shit reason. OK, I know this hasn't been as simple as I just mentioned (it requires money and time) but still... Tchaikovsky's Pique Dame, Weber's Der Freischütz, Holst's The Planets, Berlioz's Romeo and Juliet... they are all there, ready for SACD productions. But no, "we want to keep these because they are too famous, too valuable". Bullshit, I say. It's all about selfishness - it should be interesting to give a chance to listen to these as they were originally meant to be heard (in surround).

DG recorded everything in quad between 1970-76 and numerous albums after that continuing it as long as to 1980 when a digital era passed analogue. You can only imagine how many 4-channel recordings are out there: hundreds, even thousands. If just PENTATONE could receive permission for 100 albums - 100 is a minor part from the whole.

I'm a bit confused...have you spoken to the Pentatone folks about a change in their plans, or is this just from reading their public site? They just released the Boston Symphony / Bartok SACD, and I'm looking forward to hearing it when it arrives. It's giving an error message on the Pentatone site, but it's showing in stock at retailers. Their release planning page shows that the next releases in the series are going to be at least most of the Kubelik Beethoven cycle (presumably to be completed), which will probably be collected into a box set later.

One of the things I've found about being a classical fan who listens in surround that you're so much better off being pleasantly surprised by what comes from Pentatone and others than you are trying to impose what releases you think they should be making. Pentatone changed over their management a few years ago when the Philips folks retired, and they've focused somewhat more on new recordings - but managed to get access to DG.

An expectation that Pentatone would be releasing 100 albums in the near future of remastered quads just doesn't seem realistic. You can call the clearance and licensing process that gets Pentatone access to the master tapes bullshit, but that won't get rid of a fairly complicated legal framework the music business operates in.

And it really seems like you're focused on Pentatone getting access to the titles DGG has kept in print as individual discs, even though that's the exact opposite of what we've actually gotten, which have mostly been titles that only got released on Eloquence or via box sets.

Put another way, the sky isn't falling, and the only real thing we can do is continue to support them. Pentatone knows they'd make a killing on the William Steinberg recording of the Planets, but perhaps Universal doesn't want to cannibalize sales of the 96khz transfer they offer at HDTracks, and there's not much we can do about it.