Pentatone 2016 Remastered Classics Quad SACDs planned releases

[ubertrout]

I’ve got all the Beethoven Symphonies on Tacet Blu-ray... any reason I should purchase them again on Pentatone? (Besides completing my “Remastered Classics” collection). What would you consider to be the best set of Beethoven Symphonies in surround?

I don't think these are necessary. Vanska on BIS and Haitink on LSO are both really good and super-cheap in boxes (each one is under $30 including shipping); Jarvi's cycle with a smaller orchestra is good too. I have Masur's cycle already on remastered quad as well. which is pretty good.

As I've said, though, I haven't actually listened to the Kubelik cycle yet, so I'm relying on critical/internet opinion of the performances. The sound is likely to vary from symphony to symphony since each was recorded with a different orchestra/hall.

 

[Kal Rubinson]

I’ve got all the Beethoven Symphonies on Tacet Blu-ray... any reason I should purchase them again on Pentatone?

Umm. It depends on how you feel about the Tacet set. I find them interesting but not greatly satisfying nor the only set I would own.

What would you consider to be the best set of Beethoven Symphonies in surround?

Ubertrout has suggested some good ones to which I would add Rattle and Barenboim (if you can find it).

 

[ubertrout]

Umm. It depends on how you feel about the Tacet set. I find them interesting but not greatly satisfying nor the only set I would own.

Ubertrout has suggested some good ones to which I would add Rattle and Barenboim (if you can find it).

I have Barenboim's set on early DVD-Audio but always forget to mention it. IMO the best surround cycle musically - Barenboim can be divisive but I'm a fan, no doubt because I heard him live many times in Chicago. I still have fond memories how he was distracted by my date's cleavage walking onstage and then led the CSO in an incendiary Beethoven 7th, never once turning around the rest of the night.

I secretly don't love Tacet's style of having all the channels super-active for classical. It's feels busy and distracting. It's in contrast to a well-done discrete surround mix, where the surround channels supplement the fronts and are used for offstage/secondary instruments. I have the first two symphonies on DVD-Audio from the Tacet cycle and elected not to get the rest of the cycle. I think their recording style fits chamber music a bit better.

Incidentally, the release planning page now goes to May and I'm a bit underwhelmed. No other quad transfers listed. The Aimard Messaien disc is big news for the label, and I'm sure they spared no expense on the recording. I'll probably get the Hindemith orchestral works disc, we'll see about the others.

 

[luketsu]

It's not necessary to show panic yet as they're still filling the list and some of the added details looks pretty unfinished. Above all, at the time I'm writing this text releases from June to November are still mysteries.

However, few days ago I received this email:
"Thank you for your interest. My new colleague Kasper van Kooten will do this as soon as he can so you can follow our new releases closely".

They have a new member. Perhaps this explains why it has taken so long to start to upgrade the list.

 

[ubertrout]

It's not necessary to show panic yet as they're still filling the list and some of the added details looks pretty unfinished. Above all, at the time I'm writing this text releases from June to November are still mysteries.

However, few days ago I received this email:
"Thank you for your interest. My new colleague Kasper van Kooten will do this as soon as he can so you can follow our new releases closely".

They have a new member. Perhaps this explains why it has taken so long to start to upgrade the list.

Maybe? My impression is that the founders of Pentatone had helped make the Philips quad recordings that formed the core of the RQR series, and one of the things they wanted to do, upon launching their own company, was to release them in quad using the unique promise of SACD.

As I understand it they retired a number of years back, and Pentatone began casting a wider net for quad, dipping into DG releases for instance. But I don't get the sense the new owners of Pentatone were as interested in old quad recordings as the founders were, and their focus has been more on new recordings.

Maybe I'm wrong, but that's my impression.

 

[bmoura]

My impression is that the founders of Pentatone had helped make the Philips quad recordings that formed the core of the RQR series, and one of the things they wanted to do, upon launching their own company, was to release them in quad using the unique promise of SACD.

That is true.
The founders wanted to do both new DSD Stereo and Surround recordings and release the Philips Classical 4 Channel albums they had recorded while at Philips.

 

[4-earredwonder]

Maybe? My impression is that the founders of Pentatone had helped make the Philips quad recordings that formed the core of the RQR series, and one of the things they wanted to do, upon launching their own company, was to release them in quad using the unique promise of SACD.

As I understand it they retired a number of years back, and Pentatone began casting a wider net for quad, dipping into DG releases for instance. But I don't get the sense the new owners of Pentatone were as interested in old quad recordings as the founders were, and their focus has been more on new recordings.

Maybe I'm wrong, but that's my impression.

It's VERY ironic that Pentatone is releasing for the very first time even a smattering of DGG original Quadraphonic recordings while Universal and even Analogue Productions are only interested in re~releasing SACDs in Stereo from the DGG and Decca catalogues.

I, for one, am grateful that Pentatone has released as many highest quality reissues from the Philips QUAD catalogue as they have and has even attempted to do so for DGG...considering the original Pentatone team was not involved with DGG.

One can only wonder if Pentatone would ever tackle the hundreds of Angel/EMI original Quadraphonic recordings which, IMO, represent a real treasure trove and have never, AFAIK, ever seen a DVD~A nor SACD release.

It would be a real pity if Pentatone abandons these reissues but the bigger crime is that Universal has been sitting on these untapped Quadraphonic recordings for a number of years now and probably will only eventually release them as Stereo SACDs or Stereo downloads.....in minuscule numbers.

 

[ubertrout]

It's VERY ironic that Pentatone is releasing for the very first time even a smattering of DGG original Quadraphonic recordings while Universal and even Analogue Productions are only interested in re~releasing SACDs in Stereo from the DGG and Decca catalogues.

I, for one, am grateful that Pentatone has released as many highest quality reissues from the Philips QUAD catalogue as they have and has even attempted to do so for DGG...considering the original Pentatone team was not involved with DGG.

One can only wonder if Pentatone would ever tackle the hundreds of Angel/EMI original Quadraphonic recordings which, IMO, represent a real treasure trove and have never, AFAIK, ever seen a DVD~A nor SACD release.

It would be a real pity if Pentatone abandons these reissues but the bigger crime is that Universal has been sitting on these untapped Quadraphonic recordings for a number of years now and probably will only eventually release them as Stereo SACDs or Stereo downloads.....in minuscule numbers.

I prefer to be a bit cynical about prospects of releases, because it means I'm always pleasantly surprised by what I do get. The situation with classical is a bit strange compared to pop music - there are a few unreleased pop mixes people are waiting for in pop. By contrast there are literally hundreds of unreleased classical quad mixes. And that doesn't even take into account the fact that most classical quad mixes that did get released on analog formats have never been released digitally. I created a list of everything we've gotten digitally a while back: https://www.quadraphonicquad.com/fo...QUADS-LISTINGS&p=324686&viewfull=1#post324686

It would be great if we got the EMI releases, but who knows if we will? I'd really like them to exhaust the trove of what Thomas Mowrey did for Deutsche Grammophon in Boston first. In my opinion those have been the biggest surprises of the Pentatone quads thus far - who knew that one of the developers of quad had made 35 recordings in active quad mixes, performed by one of the top orchestras in the world. Some of those recordings are legendary just in stereo. So far Pentatone has released about ten of these, I'd really them to release some more.

Incidentally, Pentatone just added June to their Release Planning page - a(nother) Mendelssohn 2nd Symphony and an opera about Steve Jobs. I do realize that they may not want to commit to quad releases so far in advance, though, given that licensing is more complex than new recordings legally.

 

[bmoura]

It would be a real pity if Pentatone abandons these reissues but the bigger crime is that Universal has been sitting on these untapped Quadraphonic recordings for a number of years now and probably will only eventually release them as Stereo SACDs or Stereo downloads.....in minuscule numbers.

These days all music releases are issued "in minuscule numbers", regardless of format.
It's a function of fewer listeners buying music, especially in the US market. And the small size of the classical music audience.

On the other hand, Surround Sound classical releases continue to come out.
In some cases in new formats.

A good example is today's early release of pianist Denis Matsuev's new album with Valery Gergiev & the Mariinsky Orchestra performing the Rachmaninov Piano Concerto No 2 and Prokofieff's Piano Concerto No 2.
It's available now as a Surround Sound and Stereo DSD Download - some 4 months before the Hybrid Multichannel SACD is slated for release in February 2018.



https://www.facebook.com/NativeDsdM...1828.497854580272955/1554055787986157/?type=3
https://mariinsky.nativedsd.com/alb...o-concerto-no-2-prokofiev-piano-concerto-no-2

 

[luketsu]

I just sent the following email to PENTATONE and they should give an answer next week:

"I just noticed that you have started to update the release planning list as there are upcoming albums from February 2018 to June 2018. However, I'm not alone with the following question: are you going to release more REMASTERED CLASSICS albums next year? What is the current situation of this series? Up to this point there is only Beethoven's 9th from the Kubelik cycle. Keen enthusiasts of 4-channel sound are waiting for to hear news concerning to the new releases. For example, can we expect to receive Tchaikovsky's Pique Dame (recorded in January 1977 using four-channel tapes) next year? Your (former?) product manager Angelina Jambrekovich wrote following to me on 5 May 2015:

"I am happy to inform you that we already included one of your previous suggestions, Tchaikovsky's Pique Dame" [to our "wish list" to DGG, when it comes to licensing their recordings]".

 

[luketsu]

What is this?! I can't believe they have completed the series, too many flowers are still waiting for full glory! (More specific details will posted here as soon as PENTATONE has given a reply to the query above - this same picture appeared last year at the online shop despite they continued the series with additional DGG albums)

 

[ubertrout]

View attachment 30972

What is this?! I can't believe they have completed the series, too many flowers are still waiting for full glory! (More specific details will posted here as soon as PENTATONE has given a reply to the query above - this same picture appeared last year at the online shop despite they continued the series with additional DGG albums)

Hm. That would be disappointing. I do wish they'd release the 3rd from the Kubelik cycle (recorded with the Berlin Philharmonic, which I don't think has been previously represented on quad SACD) and finish it.

Of course, maybe they're just late in getting the quad reissues list out? Who knows. I'd honestly rather have a late announcement than have the announcement pulled (still a little annoyed at the tease that we'd get the Mozart Quintets).

 

[luketsu]

Hmmm, no new quad remasters upgraded, so far. Actually PENTATONE has not added anything new to the list for a while - how strange... However, I assume they're currently remastering new 4-channel reissues for 2018 as it looks like during the 'silent months' (December-January) they're preparing the next season. If they decide to release 10 new RC titles next year they'll presumably edit 5 recordings per month.

I don't know what are their exact plans but it looks like Universal has permitted them to reissue recordings that are beyond of main awareness; Kubelik's Beethoven cycle is a good example of this. Someone mentioned this earlier on this thread. As they proceed on this way it might be possible to receive Tchaikovsky's Pique Dame or Berlioz's Romeo and Juliet in their original multichannel glory at some point.

 

[ubertrout]

Hmmm, no new quad remasters upgraded, so far. Actually PENTATONE has not added anything new to the list for a while - how strange... However, I assume they're currently remastering new 4-channel reissues for 2018 as it looks like during the 'silent months' (December-January) they're preparing the next season. If they decide to release 10 new RC titles next year they'll presumably edit 5 recordings per month.

I don't know what are their exact plans but it looks like Universal has permitted them to reissue recordings that are beyond of main awareness; Kubelik's Beethoven cycle is a good example of this. Someone mentioned this earlier on this thread. As they proceed on this way it might be possible to receive Tchaikovsky's Pique Dame or Berlioz's Romeo and Juliet in their original multichannel glory at some point.

That's optimistic, but could be correct. I'd suggest not getting your hopes up though. It feels like some life has gone out of Pentatone's program, as I've said. Meanwhile, Dutton is through the RCA/Columbia archives, which I frankly find to be more interesting anyway, since that's what I grew up listening to - and the mixing tends to take better advantage of the possibilities of multichannel in some cases.

 

[luketsu]

The working process behind a one single physical RC album (of course we are able to deduce this in a some way as I've actually done below):

1) PENTATONE has a list of all DGG 4-channel recordings
2) Beyond of those that are marked non-possible for a legal reasons they'll choose ten albums for each year
3) After making decisions they'll send the wish list to DGG -> if an item on the list to be rejected they'll suggest another until they have ten albums in total
4) After PENTATONE has paid licensing costs the multichannel tapes to be delivered to Baarn for remastering from the vaults of DGG
5) Choosed albums to be remastered at the recording and mixing studio in Baarn, The Netherlands
6) After the recording has been remastered the new album to be added on the release planning
7) The final 4.0 and 2.0 DSD files to be sent to the disc manufacturer in order to release them on Super Audio CD
8) Album designer will design the look (artwork, inlay card & content of a booklet) well in advance before the album to be announced on a 'Catalogue' list for pre-orders
9) Graphic final creations to be sent to the printing office
10) Finished and plastic-wrapped physical SACD products to be delivered into the warehouse of PENTATONE as a multiple transport just in time before the announced release date (e.g. 1 March, 2018)