Petition to UMG to release the early Steely Dans in 5.1

[dr. simple]

If they really want to appeal to a broad audience, they would comb the vaults and pull out some studio outtakes, combine these with a clean transfer of the stereo mix (these have largely already been done), and release these with a surround mix of the album. Steely Dan outtakes have circulated in collector circles and are always fascinating. That would draw in fans who do not care about surround, and those who want surround but do not care about outtakes.

I don't claim to be an expert on all things Steely, but I recall the liner notes to their "Citizen Steely Dan" box set stating that they included the only unreleased outtake in existence, a demo of "Everyone's Gone to the Movies". They could collect singles, B-Sides, and movie soundtrack tracks, but we certainly wouldn't see anything like the Tull or XTC boxes.

 

[4-earredwonder]

My only concern would be just how many commitments would UMG require ?

Would love to know what their minimum is.

I cite all the preorders for Nick Drake-Five Leaves Left...as an example of preorder last minute yank for their Pure Audio series.

Nick Drake is popular , but likely not as, as is Steely Dan. But it makes one wonder what the math is.

UMG also pulled the plug on pre~orders for a Nick Drake multiple album SACD stereo box set, entitled "Fruit Tree," as well.

 

[markshan]

I'm sorry I missed this until now, but I just signed.

 

[bmoura]

I wonder how many units need to be sold over what period of time to make a project viable. 500 signatures does seem sparce.

Hard to know how many copies and at what price would be enough for Fagen and the Walter Becker estate to license the albums for reissue.

One clue would be the recent 45 RPM Vinyl release of The Nightfly by Mobile Fidelity.
That one was licensed for 6,000 copies at a $99.99 list price for each unit.

https://www.mofi.com/product-p/mfsl45ud1s-003.htm

 

[Eclectic]

It's hard for me to get much useful information out of this. MoFi actually had to manufacture 45 RPM Vinyl disks, which has a nontrivial cost. I think most of of us would be more than happy with flac downloads, and the 5.1 mix (of Pretzel Logic) is already complete. Transcoding it to flac (assuming this has not already been done) is trivial. So the question is, how much money does the copyright holder (whoever that may be) want for this? The sales limit (6,000 copies in the case of the Nightfly set) seems like a silly marketing gimmick when applied to a digital product. Of course the copyright holder (and any other stakeholders) would like to sell as many copies as possible, as their profits are proportional to sales. Also it's not clear how many copies of the Nightfly set MoFi actually expects to sell. If they sell 6000 copies (which I'd find pretty shocking) the gross revenues would be ~$600,000 (minus any discounts). I don't know what the cost of manufacturing is, and I don't know how how much profit MoFi expects to get so as I said, I really have little insight into the licensing cost.

 

[jaypfunk]

Signed.

On a side note: Isn't Aja not possible because the master tapes are missing?

 

[LuvMyQuad]

Signed.

On a side note: Isn't Aja not possible because the master tapes are missing?

this was discussed earlier on in the thread IIRC. Multitracks for 2 songs, Black Cow and Aja are missing and would either be excluded or upmixed.

 

[MrSmithers]

Peg is going to sound epic though!

I know I'm gonna love it...

 

[bmoura]

It's not clear how many copies of the Nightfly set MoFi actually expects to sell. If they sell 6000 copies (which I'd find pretty shocking) the gross revenues would be ~$600,000 (minus any discounts). I don't know what the cost of manufacturing is, and I don't know how how much profit MoFi expects to get so as I said, I really have little insight into the licensing cost.

Mobile Fidelity is making 7,500 copies of Bridge Over Troubled Water on LP. And they are making at least 2,500 copies of each One Step vinyl release.
In the case of Santana Abraxas, Mobile Fidelity made - and sold out - 2,500 copies of that One Step vinyl release a year ago.

So it does look like they are expecting to have gross sales of $600,000 of The Nightfly, $750,000 of gross sales of Bridge Over Troubled Water and $250,000 or more for lesser known albums and artists than Simon and Garfunkel and Donald Fagen.

http://www.mofi.com/product-p/mfsl45us1s-004.htm

 

[Eclectic]

http://www.mofi.com/product-p/mfsl45us1s-004.htm

Wow, impressive. I didn't realize there were so many deep-pocketed vinyl lovers. Do you have any insight into the cost of manufacture, or (better still) the licensing cost for the Nightfly release?

 

[MrSmithers]

Apparently rumours that Vivendi is going to float UMG for $20billion!

Maybe we could do a QQ crowdfund? If we check under the sofa we might be able claim a stake. We’d be able to release what we want?!

 

[4-earredwonder]

Apparently rumours that Vivendi is going to float UMG for $20billion!

Maybe we could do a QQ crowdfund? If we check under the sofa we might be able claim a stake. We’d be able to release what we want?!

http://www.4-traders.com/business-l...orth-more-than-40-billion-CEO-says--25524645/

 

[humprof]

Well, I suppose I could have just let this topic fall into oblivion—where the cynics and pessimists (among whose number I occasionally count myself) were convinced it would wind up from the get-go. But I figured everybody, especially those of you who, like me, were hanging onto a faint ray of hope, deserved a final report.

The short version: It seems our source was too optimistic about what it would take to get a real hearing from UMG—or at least to change that particular major label’s thinking. I was told that our plea did indeed reach its intended target inside UMG, after a fashion. Which is to say: in the end, it was relayed to the exec in question not by our source, but by our source’s agent. Under those circumstances, I seriously doubt that any of our (ahem) finely crafted arguments ever reached the executive’s ear, let alone that they were read and/or pondered in detail. (We tried to make the most compelling case we could, starting with the fact that Steely Dan’s music just plain deserves this kind of treatment, but emphasizing the fact that other labels, including other majors, are still finding ways to make surround releases of back-catalog titles profitable, even in an otherwise dire market.)

The report I got included the words “mild interest” and a number in the low six figures. If you happen to be working on the script for a music-industry satire, that should give you enough to write the scene. The old paradigm they’re following just doesn’t seem to be roomy enough for anything that moves under 100,000 units, even if it involves a 5.1 mix that’s already in the can. (And for the record: it’s been confirmed that one, but only one, of the mixes was more or less finished over a decade ago.)

That said: I really don’t want to slag anyone here. I don’t think anyone in the chain was acting in bad faith, exactly, and all three people (our contact, the agent, and the UMG exec) have good credentials and strong track records when it comes to producing, promoting, and marketing surround releases. But if there are any ForagingRhinos inside Universal, we haven’t found them yet. For now, anyway, it seems that this particular multi-jillion dollar conglomerate isn’t interested in devoting time, money, or creativity to Steely Dan in surround.

Anyway: cheers to all of you who were among the 589 signers. And a huge thanks to Jon, sjcorne, and especially steelydave for devoting a lot of time and creative energy to this behind the scenes. At least there’s plenty of other stuff coming out this year we can all be happy about.

 

[privateuniverse]

Well, I suppose I could have just let this topic fall into oblivion—where the cynics and pessimists (among whose number I occasionally count myself) were convinced it would wind up from the get-go. But I figured everybody, especially those of you who, like me, were hanging onto a faint ray of hope, deserved a final report.

The short version: It seems our source was too optimistic about what it would take to get a real hearing from UMG—or at least to change that particular major label’s thinking. I was told that our plea did indeed reach its intended target inside UMG, after a fashion. Which is to say: in the end, it was relayed to the exec in question not by our source, but by our source’s agent. Under those circumstances, I seriously doubt that any of our (ahem) finely crafted arguments ever reached the executive’s ear, let alone that they were read and/or pondered in detail. (We tried to make the most compelling case we could, starting with the fact that Steely Dan’s music just plain deserves this kind of treatment, but emphasizing the fact that other labels, including other majors, are still finding ways to make surround releases of back-catalog titles profitable, even in an otherwise dire market.)

The report I got included the words “mild interest” and a number in the low six figures. If you happen to be working on the script for a music-industry satire, that should give you enough to write the scene. The old paradigm they’re following just doesn’t seem to be roomy enough for anything that moves under 100,000 units, even if it involves a 5.1 mix that’s already in the can. (And for the record: it’s been confirmed that one, but only one, of the mixes was more or less finished over a decade ago.)

That said: I really don’t want to slag anyone here. I don’t think anyone in the chain was acting in bad faith, exactly, and all three people (our contact, the agent, and the UMG exec) have good credentials and strong track records when it comes to producing, promoting, and marketing surround releases. But if there are any ForagingRhinos inside Universal, we haven’t found them yet. For now, anyway, it seems that this particular multi-jillion dollar conglomerate isn’t interested in devoting time, money, or creativity to Steely Dan in surround.

Anyway: cheers to all of you who were among the 589 signers. And a huge thanks to Jon, sjcorne, and especially steelydave for devoting a lot of time and creative energy to this behind the scenes. At least there’s plenty of other stuff coming out this year we can all be happy about.

Sad to hear, but thank you for your efforts. Nobody can say we didn't try!

 

[JonUrban]

You did a great job with this. It was short notice, it was a call to arms, and you got over 500 signatures for a physical release of a 40 year old title in 2018 which is remarkable when you think about it. Considering that the general populace had no idea the petition existed, the results are impressive in my book.

Not every industry connection works. These guys have their jobs to protect, so going out on limbs is not something they like to do. You can't blame them. If you've ever worked for a big company you know that any day a security guy with an HR person could show up at your office and - BYE! That's the way it goes, "Thanks for everything, pack up all your stuff. You won't be allowed back in here".

So going all-in on something that might not be profitable leaves one vulnerable. Reality is a bitch!

 

[Clint Eastwood]

You did a great job with this. It was short notice, it was a call to arms, and you got over 500 signatures for a physical release of a 40 year old title in 2018 which is remarkable when you think about it. Considering that the general populace had no idea the petition existed, the results are impressive in my book.

Not every industry connection works. These guys have their jobs to protect, so going out on limbs is not something they like to do. You can't blame them. If you've ever worked for a big company you know that any day a security guy with an HR person could show up at your office and - BYE! That's the way it goes, "Thanks for everything, pack up all your stuff. You won't be allowed back in here".

So going all-in on something that might not be profitable leaves one vulnerable. Reality is a bitch!

Spot on Jon....as much as we are in denial as a tiny niche of the market...surround hasn't been a profitable venture for these companies...it's hard to go to your boss with a project(surround releases)that has failed in the past...and as much as we desire standalone surround discs...it's been tried and mostly failed....probably the only hope is to find a "decision maker" that loves surround...and even then it's an uphill battle to get it approved...nobody in recent memory tried harder than Marshall...and he could only enjoy some limited success....it is what it is...I'm just glad to get anything at this stage...

 

[DuncanS]

A shame, but not unexpected

 

[rtbluray]

Since the end of 2016 (and the release of "Tales of Mystery and Imagination") Universal have been stuck in box set land.
"Sgt. Pepper...", "A Farewell to Kings", "Roxy Music", and now "Appetite for Destruction" are all box set only releases for the 5.1 surround mixes that lie within them.
The problem with this release strategy is that not only does that make getting the 5.1 surround mix more expensive for us, but box sets are also not a release strategy that works for Steely Dan, cause they do not like releasing any kind of live or studio outtakes.
So of course Universal could have put out the unreleased 5.1 surround mix of "Pretzel Logic" as a HFPA Blu-Ray audio disc in 2014 (when the album was celebrating its 40th anniversary) and they still could release the 5.1 surround mix as a CD/Blu-Ray set, but they won't do that, cause apparently that release model is not profitable for them.
They also could have licensed out the 5.1 surround mix to Audio Fidelity when they were releasing Multichannel SACDs from 2014-2016, but they didn't do that either.
So now we're right back where we started, but at least we tried.

BTW, does anyone else besides me think that Steely Dan themselves are the problem?
I always wondered why Universal never reissued "Gaucho" as a HFPA Blu-ray Disc, and the only explanation I can think of is that the band did not approve such a release. Maybe that's why the 5.1 surround mix of "Pretzel Logic" still remains unheard.

Oh well, thank goodness for Rhino.

 

[Clint Eastwood]

Since the end of 2016 (and the release of "Tales of Mystery and Imagination") Universal have been stuck in box set land.
"Sgt. Pepper...", "A Farewell to Kings", "Roxy Music", and now "Appetite for Destruction" are all box set only releases for the 5.1 surround mixes that lie within them.
The problem with this release strategy is that not only does that make getting the 5.1 surround mix more expensive for us, but box sets are also not a release strategy that works for Steely Dan, cause they do not like releasing any kind of live or studio outtakes.
So of course Universal could have put out the unreleased 5.1 surround mix of "Pretzel Logic" as a HFPA Blu-Ray audio disc in 2014 (when the album was celebrating its 40th anniversary) and they still could release the 5.1 surround mix as a CD/Blu-Ray set, but they won't do that, cause apparently that release model is not profitable for them.
They also could have licensed out the 5.1 surround mix to Audio Fidelity when they were releasing Multichannel SACDs from 2014-2016, but they didn't do that either.
So now we're right back where we started, but at least we tried.

BTW, does anyone else besides me think that Steely Dan themselves are the problem?
I always wondered why Universal never reissued "Gaucho" as a HFPA Blu-ray Disc, and the only explanation I can think of is that the band did not approve such a release. Maybe that's why the 5.1 surround mix of "Pretzel Logic" still remains unheard.

Oh well, thank goodness for Rhino.

I don't think the band was the problem...Donald Fagen certainly didn't mind his work being done in surround....and Walter Becker is now gone...I just think it was a financial decision...and in the case of Aja...it appears that the band was willing but some of the tapes were missing(time to get out that Eddie and The Cruisers disc to understand the plot)...I think we all like to think there is always some mystery involved in some of these "non releases"...when it's just a business decision..

 

[4-earredwonder]

In my mind, at least 10K signatures, at a minimum, might've spurred Universal to release a Steely Dan BD~A 5.1 boxset but 500+??????? A valiant effort, to be sure, but far short of expectations. A lot of posters and even casual QQ guests [supposedly 10K strong] couldn't even be bothered signing a petition so the target audience wasn't even there in the first place. A VERY discouraging scenario!

The most we could possibly hope for is Universal releasing the unreleased, remixed Steely Dan QUADS/5.1s as stand alone BD~As so hang on to your existing MLP 5.1 DVD~A Steely Dans/Fagen solo albums, because, regretfully, I fear they'll never be reissued again.

Thanks to humprof for his valiant efforts. It WAS surely worth a try!....but unfortunately, You Can't Buy A Thrill and there'll be No Countdown to Ecstasy!