HiRez Poll Pink Floyd - 1970 DEVI/ATION (ATOM HEART MOTHER) [Blu-Ray Audio]

[ssully]

Despite the fact that the Q8 of ATM has a higher DR value, I cannot imagine it sounding better than the remastered BD~A. I had 8 tracks (NOT QUAD) for years and the electronics of those units [unless they were extensively modified] with the tape traveling @ 3/34 ips was hardly anything approaching audiophile and that maddening audible switching between tracks (sometimes in the middle of a song) was intolerable.:yikes

When I had the 8 track deck in my car stolen way back when I breathed a sigh of relief......GOOD RIDDANCE....only to be replaced with a cassette player [travelling @ 1 7/8]!

Digitized Q8s in circulation may well have been transferred using modified/optimized tape decks, including modified reel-to-reel decks, for transfer. I don't think anyone would argue that standard issue 8-track players were any great shakes soundwise.

 

[steelydave]

If you can, post a clip of the same loud section from the Q8 and the BluRay.

The waveforms seem to bear out what I was hearing, the uniformity of amplitude in the loudest parts suggests they did a bit of limiting compared to what you get with the Q8.

UK Q8 - Atom Heart Mother (full track)

Early Years Blu-Ray - Atom Heart Mother (full track)

UK Q8 - Atom Heart Mother (final 2 minutes - loud part)

Early Years Blu-Ray - Atom Heart Mother (final 2 minutes - loud part)

And finally, I couldn't quite zoom in on the exact same place on both tracks because they're not digitally identical and the limiting or compression makes identifying the exact same peaks identical, but these two screenshots are from within the same second. I zoomed in to a microscopic level on one of the loud points around 9:04. I was expecting to find the sawed of peaks, which are there, but if you look closely at the waveform for the BluRay, the whole thing looks like it's 'vibrating' - there are small distortions all through the amplitude of the waveform, not just where it peaks. Compare that to the waveform from the Q8 which looks smooth by comparison. To me that would probably account for the unpleasantness I'm hearing in the louder passages.

UK Q8

Early Years BluRay

And 4-earredwonder, I'm not suggesting the Q8 could ever sound better than a BluRay, I'm just using the content as a sort of technical benchmark for how much dynamic range may have been lost in this remastering.

 

[winopener]

The waveforms seem to bear out what I was hearing, the uniformity of amplitude in the loudest parts suggests they did a bit of limiting compared to what you get with the Q8.

UK Q8 - Atom Heart Mother (full track)

Early Years Blu-Ray - Atom Heart Mother (full track)

UK Q8 - Atom Heart Mother (final 2 minutes - loud part)

Early Years Blu-Ray - Atom Heart Mother (final 2 minutes - loud part)

And finally, I couldn't quite zoom in on the exact same place on both tracks because they're not digitally identical and the limiting or compression makes identifying the exact same peaks identical, but these two screenshots are from within the same second. I zoomed in to a microscopic level on one of the loud points around 9:04. I was expecting to find the sawed of peaks, which are there, but if you look closely at the waveform for the BluRay, the whole thing looks like it's 'vibrating' - there are small distortions all through the amplitude of the waveform, not just where it peaks. Compare that to the waveform from the Q8 which looks smooth by comparison. To me that would probably account for the unpleasantness I'm hearing in the louder passages.

UK Q8

Early Years BluRay

And 4-earredwonder, I'm not suggesting the Q8 could ever sound better than a BluRay, I'm just using the content as a sort of technical benchmark for how much dynamic range may have been lost in this remastering.

Looks like there's a high noise profile on high frequencies in the BR edition, what shows the spectral of the last two minutes BR?

 

[Franklin]

Was the Q8 Dolby encoded?

 

[winopener]

Was the Q8 Dolby encoded?

No.

 

[Philip Spinner]

Interesting. My Atom Heart Mother Q8 does have dolby. It's the black RCA type cart. I think the green cart does not. Which one was used.

 

[winopener]

Interesting. My Atom Heart Mother Q8 does have dolby. It's the black RCA type cart. I think the green cart does not. Which one was used.

You are right... mixed up in my mind the USA and the UK one. USA does not have Dolby, UK do (both black and green).
Brain cells going to the drain...
In any case the presence/absence of Dolby encoding/decoding IMHO has nothing to do with the "vibrating noise" seen on the waveforms. If it is really a byproduct of some high-freq hum, maybe a drastic filter could solve the issue.

 

[Franklin]

In any case the presence/absence of Dolby encoding/decoding IMHO has nothing to do with the "vibrating noise" seen on the waveforms.

It can with perceived dynamics though.

 

[Ranasakawa]

8 from me
Not the best Floyd album, but very interesting quad mix

I'm still upset they didn't include the Meddle & Obscured By Clouds in 5.1
Does not make sense to me

 

[jimfisheye]

Top is the Q8.
Bottom is The Early Years box bluray.


A picture is worth a thousand words and all. Meters continue to agree.

I don't have my old notes on hand but if I remember correctly that Q8 was dolby encoded and I decided I was getting better results decoding it 'manually' than using the hardware decoder in the tape deck. I'm going to suggest that it was perhaps me altering the original dynamic profile somewhat in that restoration mastering work rather than compression used in TEY remaster.

I do think there might be just the slightest high end bump in these bluray remasters. Consistent with Dark Side & WYWH. Nothing that would make me complain or give negative points for. Light years away from the blinding high end thing talked about with the remixed albums in the set.

Whatever the case may be, this bluray remaster is sure in better overall condition than the Q8! I thought I was pretty familiar with this recording but the clarity revealed a few things for me. Especially in the surround play in AHM Suite! That bit is still the closest you will get on album to the surround play they had going on at their live shows during the period.

 

[arnold_layne]

View attachment 29039

Top is the Q8.
Bottom is The Early Years box bluray.


A picture is worth a thousand words and all. Meters continue to agree.

I don't have my old notes on hand but if I remember correctly that Q8 was dolby encoded and I decided I was getting better results decoding it 'manually' than using the hardware decoder in the tape deck. I'm going to suggest that it was perhaps me altering the original dynamic profile somewhat in that restoration mastering work rather than compression used in TEY remaster.

I do think there might be just the slightest high end bump in these bluray remasters. Consistent with Dark Side & WYWH. Nothing that would make me complain or give negative points for. Light years away from the blinding high end thing talked about with the remixed albums in the set.

Whatever the case may be, this bluray remaster is sure in better overall condition than the Q8! I thought I was pretty familiar with this recording but the clarity revealed a few things for me. Especially in the surround play in AHM Suite! That bit is still the closest you will get on album to the surround play they had going on at their live shows during the period.

Jim,

It was my Q8 transfer that was used. You did do Dolby decoding manually as well, I don't ever recall a Dolby equipped quadraphonic 8 track deck ever being made, so an external decoder would have to be used. I think you made the right choice with manual decoding due to the age of the tape.

A_L

 

[jimfisheye]

Jim,

It was my Q8 transfer that was used. You did do Dolby decoding manually as well, I don't ever recall a Dolby equipped quadraphonic 8 track deck ever being made, so an external decoder would have to be used. I think you made the right choice with manual decoding due to the age of the tape.

A_L

Hi A_L,
Yeah, in hindsight now I still feel like we did everything we could right and had a really good listening experience to show for it.

When any one of a dozen variables misses the mark the hardware dolby decoder/expander can really miss by a wide margin. Manually working the controls is the only choice to get anything resembling the original audio back. Dolby circuits don't have said controls so... manual decoding.

I do think the remaster of the Q8 turned out well but I think it's safe to say that the Q8 remaster is the one dynamically altered and the bluray master is more true to the master mix tape.

 

[ssully]

One small thing I see disconcerting some of the online PF fans who *aren't* very into surround, is that 'Alan's Psychedelic Breakfast' is shorter in quad than it is in 2 channel. That's because the 'drip' section at the end is shorter. On the 2ch it fades out, on the quad it stops while still at full volume -- a ~40 sec difference. I've seen some wondering if this was a flaw in the Early Years transfer, but it's the same way on the SQ LP transfer I have, so I would guess the quad master is simply shorter.

Obviously this is not a big deal, but fans will be fans.

 

[jimfisheye]

One small thing I see disconcerting some of the online PF fans who *aren't* very into surround, is that 'Alan's Psychedelic Breakfast' is shorter in quad than it is in 2 channel. That's because the 'drip' section at the end is shorter. On the 2ch it fades out, on the quad it stops while still at full volume -- a ~40 sec difference. I've seen some wondering if this was a flaw in the Early Years transfer, but it's the same way on the SQ LP transfer I have, so I would guess the quad master is simply shorter.

Obviously this is not a big deal, but fans will be fans.

The copy of the stereo mix I have is cut off a few drips before the quad mix ends by the locked groove at the end of the lead out groove at the end of the album side, where it then loops/repeats until you lift the stylus from the album. One of the classic lead out groove albums.

I haven't heard a version that runs longer than the quad mix. What release features the longer running drips?

 

[ssully]

The copy of the stereo mix I have is cut off a few drips before the quad mix ends by the locked groove at the end of the lead out groove at the end of the album side, where it then loops/repeats until you lift the stylus from the album. One of the classic lead out groove albums.

I haven't heard a version that runs longer than the quad mix. What release features the longer running drips?

The track ends with a door slam followed by running water and then drips.

THe Mobile Fidelity CD ends with a fade out. Drips are in the left channel only. The door slam is at 12:09 and the track ends at 13:43

THe OD 'Phoenix' decode of the SQ quad LP ends with a repeating locked groove, for which OD created a fade out. The drips can be heard in all 4 channels. The door slam is at 12:06, and the end of the first lock groove iteration is 12:54, and the track ends at 13:15.

THe Early Years version from the quad master tapes ends at full volume. Drips are in the rear left and right channels only. THe door slam is at 12:08 and the track ends at 12:58

I think the quad master really is simply shorter than the 2 channel master. Both quad versions I have at hand have ~50 seconds of audio after the door slam (excluding lock groove playback repeats on the LP), while the 2 track version (Mofi CD) has over 90 seconds of audio after the door slam.

I don't have a Q8 transfer available for comparison.

 

[Franklin]

I'm not familiar with this album, but I thought my copy finished unusually suddenly. On Breakfast there's some talking and a single drip and it's back to the menu without a pause. Is that what I'm supposed to be hearing?

 

[GOS]

I'm not familiar with this album, but I thought my copy finished unusually suddenly. On Breakfast there's some talking and a single drip and it's back to the menu without a pause. Is that what I'm supposed to be hearing?

I "think" Ssully addresses this, or at least comments in post 33.

 

[lennon fan]

glad to have this in hi rez but was disappointed a bit that that last swirl down the drain and final drip drip etc. was missing.

 

[François]

Maybe it's an authoring error ?..

 

[Franklin]

glad to have this in hi rez but was disappointed a bit that that last swirl down the drain and final drip drip etc. was missing.

Yes, I was under the impression that there should have been at least some repetitive dripping, it just cuts off, no gap at the end of the track either. Mine's from the seperately sold Devi/ation set, rather than the box. Which do you have?