Pink Floyd/The Division Bell - Ask Andy Jackson about the Mastering and the Mix

[Andy Jackson]

peterzach & kap'n krunch

All outside my control. I guess it's the powers that be looking at 'universal' formats. People get mighty pissed is they buy something & can't play it

 

[Andy Jackson]

May I enquirer as to the type of sub-harmonic processor employed?

It's a DBX Boom Box (not a promising name). We first encountered it when we did the Wall movie, the film guys used one. It essentially generates one octave down of what ever you put in. http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/1994_articles/mar94/dbx120xp.html

 

[timbre4]

Thanks for confirming the processor involved. I'd been looking at plug-ins to do this. My bass pedalboard has an Octave pedal for jolly departures of fancy.


From QQ deep space

 

[Andy Jackson]

Why isn't the DVD-V in 96/24

Further to that, it is a problem for people that use spdif from player to decoder, 96/24 surround won't fit down spdif. I actually had the guy from EMI say this very thing to me about one of the previous releases, he couldn't play it on his system.

 

[Andy Jackson]

My bass pedalboard has an Octave pedal for jolly departures of fancy.

If you mean the boss octivider, that is essentially a simple version of the same thing (& also Guy's favourite toy)

 

[timbre4]

I am a huge Guy Pratt / Toy Matinee / Kevin Gilbert fan! His PF work is solidly loyal and yet so inventive.


From QQ deep space

 

[Andy Jackson]

Guy's favourite toy)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAi3VTSdTxU&feature=kp

... about which Guy has a genius story he does in his comedy show.

 

[timbre4]

Well my goodness Guy certainly employs it expertly on the Michael Jackson track! Thanks for sharing that. It was my privilege to watch him play during the Division Bell tour here in Nashville.


From QQ deep space

 

[PK]

Well done, Andy! :sun

 

[DennisMoore Jr.]

Andy: Thanks for doing what you do and for stopping by here. It seems 5.1 fans & producers alike have a stronger 5.1 market these days.

My DVD of Division Bell is on order so I will thank you in advance for another precious 5.1 gift to us music lovers. For me 5.1 is as big of a jump as 2.0 was from mono.

I bought The Wall back in 1979 and I saw PF perform it on Long Island in 1980. Can you give us any kind of update on The Wall in 5.1?(I understand that might be more in James' arena...) Also, can you add anything about Animals getting a 5.1 remix, one day?

Pink Floyd was recorded so well with so many sonic layers, all PF music screams for 5.1 from the multi-track tapes!

I think The Division Bell(2.0) is a sonic masterpiece so I am very excited to be enjoying your 5.1 remix, soon. Cheers!

 

[Cheezmo]

James, who is the font of all wisdom concerning these things, has a concern around BD to do with it's copy protection. Essentially there is an encryption of the entire disc image that he says is not transparent. I have to be honest, I don't get involved in things that I can't control, life's too short and I've got other things to be doing, I've been simultaneously making my own album while I've been working on the recent project, which is a far more satisfying use of my time than badgering Sony.

My authoring guy tells me of a new 'audio only' BD format which sounds interesting: http://www.pureaudio-bluray.com/

Sounds like he is talking about Cinavia, this is a watermarking copy protection method (google it) used on movie soundtracks that would indeed alter the sound (although I'm sure they claim it is transparent). I've not heard if it is required on all Blu-ray soundtracks, but it would be a shame if that had to be applied to hi-res audio releases.

 

[Cheezmo]

The inclusion of DTS on the DVD is because this one is my call. James (Guthrie) hates the sound of DTS & won't put it on the discs he has control of. I have a few reservations about it, but take the attitude that it's you guy's choice what you listen to, & if you don't like the DTS you'll listen to the Dolby dig.

If I understand correctly you are saying that James prefers Dolby Digital (640kbps) to DTS (1510kbps)? Wow, I don't think you would find many people that would agree with that. Thats lossy compression at less than half the bitrate.

Thank goodness you prevailed on this!

 

[peterzach]

peterzach & kap'n krunch

All outside my control. I guess it's the powers that be looking at 'universal' formats. People get mighty pissed is they buy something & can't play it

Andy, the beauty of having a Dvd Audio layer added to a Dvd disk is a win/win/win. For those that can play dvd audio it works and is lossless and sounds closer to what engineer has mixed.
Dvd Audio layer is encrypted much better that Bluray.
For those that have Dts they can play it and if you have DD only you can play that so all people are happy.

I do understand that if a disk only had a Dvd Audio layer only that they would be pissed if they could not play it in their player but you put all 3 on and it works. Only draw back is if you don't have enough space to put all 3 on as I think 8.5 gig is the limit of storage.

peter

 

[neil wilkes]

Sounds like he is talking about Cinavia, this is a watermarking copy protection method (google it) used on movie soundtracks that would indeed alter the sound (although I'm sure they claim it is transparent). I've not heard if it is required on all Blu-ray soundtracks, but it would be a shame if that had to be applied to hi-res audio releases.

No, not Cinavia.
That's still for films only - Andy will be talking about the mandatory use of AACS, which is very expensive & doubles replication costs as well as being pointless.
PA-BD is an AES standard now (AES-21d from memory) and is the standard we based the Yes album (and the forthcoming Drums & Wires disc) on with it's main feature being that it will work headlessly (no screen needed).

 

[kap'n krunch]

Why isn't the DVD-V in 96/24

Further to that, it is a problem for people that use spdif from player to decoder, 96/24 surround won't fit down spdif. I actually had the guy from EMI say this very thing to me about one of the previous releases, he couldn't play it on his system.

Thank you very much for the extended answer, Andy....that guy at EMI is full of *****! (pardon my French) ..you WORK at EMI and do not have anything at home that plays back DTS 96/24?? AFAIK, it's backwards compatible since it's a 48K stream with "extensions" for system that can play it...but , then , I might be wrong..
Cheers!

 

[rontoon]

My authoring guy tells me of a new 'audio only' BD format which sounds interesting: http://www.pureaudio-bluray.com/

Hi Andy. May I recommend that you check out the recent release of Quadrophenia in this format? It's an amazing mix and the audio is fantastic! And now some fanboy gushing...
Your multi-channel mix of Division Bell is amazing. This is one of my favorite multi-channel mixes and brings an album I've loved for many years to new heights. It's almost like discovering it again for the first time. Thank you for "getting" multi-channel mixes and avoiding the center channel. I was around when quad albums were new and had a set-up back in the 70's (I'm old). And thank you for indulging us all here. Your time and input are greatly appreciated.

Lastly, some speculation. It appears that the Why Pink Floyd campaign is over so it was nice surprise to see this multi-channel mix for Division Bell and the prospect of the new unmentionable album being mixed in this format as well. My question - Is there a snowball's chance in hell that we may see other Floyd albums mixed in this manner any time in the future? It seems like a good way, from an artistic viewpoint, to keep interest at a peak level in regards to the back catalog.

 

[Andy Jackson]

A few of you are asking about whether there will be other surround mixes of PF albums. Don't know is the basic answer. Never say never though.

If I understand correctly you are saying that James prefers Dolby Digital (640kbps) to DTS (1510kbps)? Wow, I don't think you would find many people that would agree with that. Thats lossy compression at less than half the bitrate.

It's more about 'digititus', dolby dig might be low rate, but for James it avoids the digititus thing. Kinda sounds more analogue. I know what he means, although I can sit through an album of DTS without it driving me out of the room.

 

[Cheezmo]

But he was talking about something that affected the audio quality. There is nothing in AACS that would do that. The decrypted data would be exactly identical to the source. That is why I suspected Cinavia since that actually mucks with the audio data.

No, not Cinavia.
That's still for films only - Andy will be talking about the mandatory use of AACS, which is very expensive & doubles replication costs as well as being pointless.
PA-BD is an AES standard now (AES-21d from memory) and is the standard we based the Yes album (and the forthcoming Drums & Wires disc) on with it's main feature being that it will work headlessly (no screen needed).

 

[Fourplay]

Hey Andy,

I love your OAI mix and have reviewed it elsewhere. Have not heard TDB yet. Can you comment on the "loudness wars?" What is your philosophy on mastering and compression? Are you involved in those decisions, or is it downstream of your work?

Thanks to all for this enlightening thread. Thanks Andy for participating!

Ken

 

[JonUrban]

First off, I would like to thank Andy Jackson for stopping by QQ and taking not only the time to register and read, but to login and interact with the membership. Make no mistake about it, he found us, we did not find him. (I never have any luck "finding" audio guys and getting them to stop by and post! @: [Paging Mr. Scheiner! Paging Mr. Scheiner] So, all of the kudo's go to Andy, not to me!

That being said, I got my DVD Monday in the mail and listened to it today in the car on the way to work and back and forth. (I had to create a DVD-A version to play it in the Acura). Wow, what a revelation. I don't think I gave this album much play time back in '94. Although I grew up on Pink Floyd, and can hear the entire DSOTM, WYWH, Animals, The Wall, and most of Momentary Lapse in my head all the way through, I lost touch with PF and never really warmed up to Division Bell.

Listening to the surround mix sheds a whole new respect for this work, and I've only heard it twice now. Andy's mix is brilliant. A showcase of how to properly do a quadraphonic mix. The lack of a forceful center channel is not missed at all. The mix grabs you right off the bat and without flashy gimmicks or wild panning it envelops the listener and there is no mistake that you are listening to a big spacious audio soundscape. David's guitar work shines and is clear and pinpoint to the listener. I found myself liking this album on the first listen, and I do not remember feeling that way when I got the CD 20 years ago.

I am now tempted to watch the box pricing and if it falls into the $99 range again I may leap on it. The BluRay has got to sound better than a DTS encoded stream that has been demuxed, then reconfigured as DVD-A (by me) and I am liking this album enough to take the plunge at that price point. It's just a shame that the BluRay cannot be purchased separately, or that the DVD did not include a DVD-A section - all of which has nothing to do with Andy's decisions.

So, brilliant job Andy! While listening I kept thinking to myself that "This is the guy that should do The Wall", but alas, I would guess that would be James Guthrie's territory. It's a shame, because it's very clear that Mr. Jackson gets surround, gets quad, and gets the material.

So Thank You big time for the mix, for joining the forum, and for your participation in this thread. And thanks to David for "making work" for you 10 years ago!