Porcupine Tree 5.1 remasters - Deadwing / In Absentia - getting nearer?

[edisonbaggins]

I'm sticking with my original DVD~A, warts and all.

I tried inverting my center the other day, but it didn't do much good. I'm hearing that the center and the Lfe were inverted though.
So, if I invert my center, and flip the sub to 180 degrees, this album should pop, right?

 

[antoine555]

I sent an email to Burning Shed about the phase issue... We'll see how it goes.

 

[MarkN]

I did a quick listening test on 'Blackest Eyes'. To me, the new Blu-ray sounds thin like the original DVD-A. I then inverted the center channel on my ripped file from the Blu-ray and the bass response sounded more full. So I'm reasonably sure that the 5.1 mix on the Blu-ray is identical to the DVD-A with the same phase issues.

 

[Robert van Diggele]

Just received email from Burning Shed:

Hi, Thanks very much for buying this deluxe edition of one of PT’s classic albums from us. We have been made aware of an unfortunate mistake on the Blu-ray disc. It should have included the audio from CD2 in high resolution (24/96) but those tracks/files are not there. Obviously we are eager for you to have a complete Blu-Ray disc but this is going to take a few weeks as a new master and manufacturing will take time. The “good” part is that you don’t have to do anything. We will automatically send a replacement Blu-ray to everyone who has bought this from us. Kscope are sorry for this mishap but please rest assured it will all be ok - you’re in good hands. We will email you again when the discs are about to be shipped. Please note that all replacement discs will be sent by standard mail without tracking. We won’t be sending any discs by courier. Anyone who bought the deluxe edition from other sellers will need to contact Kscope directly about getting a replacement disc. Watch their social media accounts for more information.

Kind regards

The lovely Lisa is still going strong at Burning Shed.

 

[MarkN]

On the plus side, the new mastering of the stereo mix sounds fantastic compared to the original.

 

[edisonbaggins]

I did a quick listening test on 'Blackest Eyes'. To me, the new Blu-ray sounds thin like the original DVD-A. I then inverted the center channel on my ripped file from the Blu-ray and the bass response sounded more full. So I'm reasonably sure that the 5.1 mix on the Blu-ray is identical to the DVD-A with the same phase issues.

Can you try inverting the LFE also and see if it improves things even more?
Also, folks are dying to see a wavform, if you could do a screenshot or something like that.

 

[MarkN]

Can you try inverting the LFE also and see if it improves things even more?
Also, folks are dying to see a wavform, if you could do a screenshot or something like that.

I don't think the LFE is inverted, but is delayed by about 10 msec compared to the other tracks. Here's a screenshot from the near the beginning of 'The Sound Of Muzak' from the 5.1 on the Blu-ray. The top and bottom tracks are the front Left and Right channels. The second track from the top is the Center, and the third track is the LFE. Note how the Center is inverted compared to the front left and right channels, and the LFE's phase is not inverted, but is delayed by about 10 msec.
This is exactly how I remember the waveforms appearing on the DVD-A of this track.

 

[Simon_LDT]

Oh dear, how could it be like this after it was mentioned many times that it would be fixed?

I've yet to check the 5.1 but I did watch the documentary and it is superb. It's already long at 1hr 50min but I wanted even more it was so good.

 

[edisonbaggins]

I don't think the LFE is inverted, but is delayed by about 10 msec compared to the other tracks. Here's a screenshot from the near the beginning of 'The Sound Of Muzak' from the 5.1 on the Blu-ray. The top and bottom tracks are the front Left and Right channels. The second track from the top is the Center, and the third track is the LFE. Note how the Center is inverted compared to the front left and right channels, and the LFE's phase is not inverted, but is delayed by about 10 msec.
This is exactly how I remember the waveforms appearing on the DVD-A of this track.

View attachment 46793

Interesting. Somebody posted a screenshot on Facebook, in which Thomas L (Plan9, I believe) said the center and LFE were inverted. Could have just been a mistake of fact on his part, that day.
Anyway, I have tried the album with the center inverted and it didn't make a noticeable difference, to me. I thought maybe, just maybe during certain passages, but couldn't be sure it was an improvement.

 

[edisonbaggins]

 

[MarkN]

Interesting. Somebody posted a screenshot on Facebook, in which Thomas L (Plan9, I believe) said the center and LFE were inverted. Could have just been a mistake of fact on his part, that day.
Anyway, I have tried the album with the center inverted and it didn't make a noticeable difference, to me. I thought maybe, just maybe during certain passages, but couldn't be sure it was an improvement.

I think your system configuration, specifically bass management, can affect how much of a difference is noticeable, at least in terms of bass response. Small vs Large speakers, and if bass is directed to both the subwoofer and the main speakers probably affects how much the phase issues can cause cancellation of the bass.

 

[Plan9]

Hi all, the master I sent Steven a few years ago had the bass and center channel corrected. :-/

I'm not so sure the LFE was inverted on all tracks but I seem to remember I did something to it. It wasn't a 10ms delay because after investigation, this was not a problem with the channel.

 

[MarkN]

Hi all, the master I sent Steven a few years ago had the bass and center channel corrected. :-/

I'm not so sure the LFE was inverted on all tracks but I seem to remember I did something to it. It wasn't the 10ms delay because after investigation, this was not a problem with the channel.

I compared my screenshot from the Blu-ray that I posted here with the waveforms at the same point from my old DVD-A. The phase of the center channel with respect to the others is the same on my DVD-A and my Blu-ray (inverted). Someone must have dropped the ball after you sent the corrected master to Steven.

Is it possible for you to check what is on the new Blu-ray and see if, indeed, it does not match what you sent?

 

[Plan9]

I compared my screenshot from the Blu-ray that I posted here with the waveforms at the same point from my old DVD-A. The phase of the center channel with respect to the others is the same on my DVD-A and my Blu-ray (inverted). Someone must have dropped the ball after you sent the corrected master to Steven.

Is it possible for you to check what is on the new Blu-ray and see if, indeed, it does not match what you sent?

If the Blu-Ray is identical to the DVD-A, they haven't used my corrected master...
And with the lack of bonus tracks on the BR, it seems perhaps a bad version of the authoring was sent to the pressing plant. Maybe this is a blessing in disguise if they can correct the 5.1 master while they are at it.

I don't have the new Blu-Ray to check unfortunately.

 

[MarkN]

I would love to get someone else to confirm what I am seeing just to make sure I'm not doing something completely wrong. I have spot-checked the waveforms at several points in different tracks from my Blu-ray rip, and all of them seem to have the center channel inverted compared to the front L & R channels.

 

[Frogmort]

Hi all, the master I sent Steven a few years ago had the bass and center channel corrected. :-/

I'm not so sure the LFE was inverted on all tracks but I seem to remember I did something to it. It wasn't a 10ms delay because after investigation, this was not a problem with the channel.

I don't have the blu-ray, but on the DVD-A I inverted the center channel a while back but left the LFE alone. I just now went back and applied a -10ms cut to the LFE channel and here are the before and after (LFE is 4th from top)

LFE as is:

LFE -10ms cut:

 

[4-earredwonder]

I would love to get someone else to confirm what I am seeing just to make sure I'm not doing something completely wrong. I have spot-checked the waveforms at several points in different tracks from my Blu-ray rip, and all of them seem to have the center channel inverted compared to the front L & R channels.

Try playing it in 4.0 thus eliminating the 'problematic' center channel and see if it makes a difference.

 

[edisonbaggins]

What a CF...

 

[4-earredwonder]

What a CF...

What's a CF, Mike? Or is it what I think it is?

 

[edisonbaggins]

What's a CF, Mike? Or is it what I think it is?

It is...