Porcupine Tree 5.1 remasters - Deadwing / In Absentia - getting nearer?

[edisonbaggins]

Anyone else rip and check out the corrected BD yet? Appears to me to be exactly the same as the DVD-A.
Center out-of-phase. LFE delayed ~10ms. No boost.

 

[JediJoker]

Anyone else rip and check out the corrected BD yet? Appears to me to be exactly the same as the DVD-A.
Center out-of-phase. LFE delayed ~10ms. No boost.

And you confirmed that the disc you ripped was the replacement? There's already been one mistakenly ripped original disc in this thread.

 

[edisonbaggins]

And you confirmed that the disc you ripped was the replacement? There's already been one mistakenly ripped original disc in this thread.

Yes. Original disc is sitting in a pile elsewhere. The disc I ripped has the disc 2 tracks in hires.

 

[François]

Anyone else rip and check out the corrected BD yet? Appears to me to be exactly the same as the DVD-A.
Center out-of-phase. LFE delayed ~10ms. No boost.

I've ripped both blu-ray, the original and the corrected version, and compared the LPCM tracks in Audacity.

On the corrected blu-ray:
The Center is inverted (except for the last song).
The LFE is at a lower volume !!!

 

[edisonbaggins]

I've ripped both blu-ray, the original and the corrected version, and compared the LPCM tracks in Audacity.

On the corrected blu-ray:
The Center is inverted (except for the last song).
The LFE is at a lower volume !!!

And the LFE is still offset, right? It looks offset to me. My guess is they used the original files.

Not pertinent to the sound, but when you rip the blu-ray, you get a 16th track. It's in between the album and the bonus tracks. Just 20 seconds of 6 channel silence.

 

[edisonbaggins]

I have reached out to Kscope, asking what's the dealio.

I'll offer them Froggy's Fix!!!

 

[Simon_LDT]

Hmm..., not looking good. Having Deja Vu back to Opeth's Pale Communion where they issued a new disc as I believe both LFE and FL were out of phase. They fixed 1 channel but not the other. End result is now having 2 discs but both with errors.

I will check mine tomorrow.

 

[GOS]

 

[edisonbaggins]

I've ripped both blu-ray, the original and the corrected version, and compared the LPCM tracks in Audacity.

On the corrected blu-ray:
The Center is inverted (except for the last song).
The LFE is at a lower volume !!!

The question boggling my mind now, is what the heck @Delicious2 is showing us in posts #403 and 404?
In his images, there's a stereo track up top, presumably the FL/FR combined somehow, then, presumably, the center below that, which appears in phase.
But every track I checked from the replacement BD (quite a few) featured the center out of phase!

 

[François]

The question boggling my mind now, is what the heck @Delicious2 is showing us in posts #403 and 404?
In his images, there's a stereo track up top, presumably the FL/FR combined somehow, then, presumably, the center below that, which appears in phase.
But every track I checked from the replacement BD (quite a few) featured the center out of phase!

I should have been more clear: when I said that the center was inverted, it's in relation to the center of the uncorrected track! In the corrected blu-ray, the center is the inverse of the center of the original uncorrected blu-ray!!! In fact I'm seeing the exact same waveform that shown in post #405. Sorry about the confusion (it will be my epitaph ).

 

[edisonbaggins]

I should have been more clear: when I said that the center was inverted, it's in relation to the center of the uncorrected track! In the corrected blu-ray, the center is the inverse of the center of the original uncorrected blu-ray!!! In fact I'm seeing the exact same waveform that shown in post #405. Sorry about the confusion (it will be my epitaph ).

Well, FFS. I wonder what's going on here. I have never even put the original blu-ray in my computer - only the replacement (with no kscope address on the front and with the bonus tracks present). For every 6 channel track I looked at the center was definitely out of phase. But I'll quadruple check later!

Is it possible that they sent out multiple versions of the corrected BD?!

In any case, an in-phase center doesn't help the album discernibly on any of my systems (full-range, bass-managed, a variety), so, even if the center has been corrected, it's still fully corrected FLACs for me...

 

[Beefalo]

Well, FFS. I wonder what's going on here. I have never even put the original blu-ray in my computer - only the replacement (with no kscope address on the front and with the bonus tracks present). For every 6 channel track I looked at the center was definitely out of phase. But I'll quadruple check later!

Is it possible that they sent out multiple versions of the corrected BD?!

In any case, an in-phase center doesn't help the album discernibly on any of my systems (full-range, bass-managed, a variety), so, even if the center has been corrected, it's still corrected FLACs for me...

Our in house specialist was motivated enough to use his brains and expertise to create a perfect re-master.
Unfortunately the commercial powers behind the release could care less and botched the job.

 

[skherbeck]

I have a question to all of you who rip their music: how do you play it on your system? Do you copy it to an external hard drive? And another question: when you make changes to a mix (In Absentia being a good example), do you save it as you would a regular file, and then that becomes your preferred listening mix?

I rip every disc I buy and save them as FLAC; if I make any changes, I save the original, unaltered tracks on an external drive connected to my laptop; I save all my favorite, customized tracks on a separate external SSD drive also connected to my laptop. My laptop is connected via HDMI to my receiver. I play my surround tracks from either external drive via Foobar on my laptop. The discs never get played again once ripped.

 

[hatchling]

I rip every disc I buy and save them as FLAC; if I make any changes, I save the original, unaltered tracks on an external drive connected to my laptop; I save all my favorite, customized tracks on a separate external SSD drive also connected to my laptop. My laptop is connected via HDMI to my receiver. I play my surround tracks from either external drive via Foobar on my laptop. The discs never get played again once ripped.

This is essentially identical to what I do, even down to the part about keeping original files if any are customized (which I try to keep to a minimum except for cases like those discussed in this thread). The only difference is that all my music lives on a central file server in my home, which allows me to play them easily anywhere and gets backed up in various ways so that risk of data loss is near zero.

 

[Delicious2]

...(with no kscope address on the front and with the bonus tracks present).

In addition to having no kscope address does it say KSCOPE548BD2?

Is it possible that they sent out multiple versions of the corrected BD?!

Good question!

In any case, an in-phase center doesn't help the album discernibly on any of my systems (full-range, bass-managed, a variety), so, even if the center has been corrected, it's still fully corrected FLACs for me...

Also true for me for the center. I cross to my sub at 60Hz since my Jubilee bass bins are strong down into the low 40s so frankly boosting the LFE 7.6DB or even normalizing it in Audacity only boost the very lowest bass where there is clearly not much going on in this recording anyway (possibly by design). I have a very capable sub in that region (Danley DTS10) but don't hear much difference with the 2 levels of boost. If we feel the bass is lacking overall in this recording/mix/mastering perhaps we should look at boosting bass in the L+R channels

 

[Simon_LDT]

Here is my rip of the replacement BD. Sample is from Blackest Eyes. First shot is unaltered and 2nd shot is with LFE boosted by 7.6db so it's easier to see.

The center looks fixed to me although I'm unsure on the LFE delay myself.

 

[edisonbaggins]

So, I figured out my confusion. Having Froggy's Fix, my own DVD-A rip and the BD tracks in the same directory somehow resulted in me copying the DVD-A tracks to the BD sub-directory...
So, here is truly the replacement BD rip of Blackest Eyes. The center phase has been corrected, but the LFE is still offset and unboosted (I boosted it here). It's still off by about 10 ms.
That's sad, because the shifted and boosted LFE makes the most difference on all my systems. So, nice try, kscope, but it's Froggy's Fix for me...

 

[Albert Dagger]

Good to hear the centre channel has been fixed. I still don’t understand how it was estimated the LFE should be boosted by exactly 7.6dB. There must be a logic behind that number I guess. I’m also not sure if the delay is a deliberate choice or a mistake.
I hope to get my copy soon so that I can do some tests, even though I always thought it sounded great anyway

 

[Lord British]

So, I figured out my confusion. Having Froggy's Fix, my own DVD-A rip and the BD tracks in the same directory somehow resulted in me copying the DVD-A tracks to the BD sub-directory...
So, here is truly the replacement BD rip of Blackest Eyes. The center phase has been corrected, but the LFE is still offset and unboosted (I boosted it here). It's still off by about 10 ms.
That's sad, because the shifted and boosted LFE makes the most difference on all my systems. So, nice try, kscope, but it's Froggy's Fix for me...
View attachment 51139

Is the 10ms delay something that can be adjusted by my receiver? There's an option for Phase Control+ on my Pioneer Elite SC-95 that deals with the group delay. I can set it anywhere from 0-16ms. Or is that something totally different?

 

[edisonbaggins]

Is the 10ms delay something that can be adjusted by my receiver? There's an option for Phase Control+ on my Pioneer Elite SC-95 that deals with the group delay. I can set it anywhere from 0-16ms. Or is that something totally different?

Honestly scratching my head over that. Maybe? If you adjust the delay and boost the lfe by 8 db, maybe you'd be in business. Can those adjustments be made quickly and easily on your system?
To, in effect, bring your lfe 10ms back, wouldn't you have to delay all the other 5 channels by 10ms?