PS Audio - Surround Sound not more popular with Audiophiles?

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BTW, I have no idea what, if any, transformations are involved in going from the discrete 5.1/7.1 HiRes stuff I download from them to the Atmos packages on ATV.
Apple Music Atmos files are all compressed to some extent but I don't imagine that upsets channel balance/imaging much if at all? Some time back I compared a couple Apple streamed versions against my BluRay versions and didn't hear any major distortions but it's very hard to set up streaming for any kind of serious A-B tests.

I have the 19 cut 2L downloaded 5.1 sampler from 2009 but I don't believe its in Atmos on the stream?
Just a bit of curiosity. LOL
 
How on Earth could adding a center channel or overhead channels collapse a "you are there" mix?! That has to be a critique of a specific 5.1 mix or 7.1.4 mix vs another specific 4.0 mix. We can find plenty of examples the other way around too.

It's all in the mix!

Because 5.1 and Atmos mixes are mixed differently than the quad mixes. Which is what I believe you have said. I've heard a number of home made Atmos mixes that are more satisfying than many of the commercial Atmos mixes. Commercial Atmos mixes are a "one size fits all" solution.... specifically headphones.
 
None of these different channel formats make anyone mix differently though. Obviously more speakers and bigger soundstage to create and all that but they're not 'different' different. Nothing like playing a video on a different system and the reds are now greens or anything like that. The 4 quad corners are still the 4 quad corners in 5.1 and 7.1.4. (And the choice of towing in the rears angle can apply to any of them.)

There may be different mix styles - and there sure are! Isn't that more a sign of the times than anything to do with these speaker formats?

Anyway, we can still play one of those 4.0 quad mixes that someone is calling a "you are there" mix. And there you are being there. Along with your silent center speaker. Obviously the mix either speaks for itself or it doesn't. It sounded like the premise was being made that just having any sound whatsoever present in a center speaker or heights ruins potential for immersion in a mix. It can no longer do what a mix in only 4.0 could.

I'm saying we haven't lost a single thing. It's still all in the mixes.

There be some commercial mixes out there that are just zero effort cheapness. It's a weirdness factor though when you get one of those in what's supposed to be the high falootin format like Atmos. And yeah ya know, if a mono or stereo mix sounds better than your 12 channel mix then you should probably feel bad!
 
All fair enough, since I really know nothing at all about classical music, let alone it's recordings in spatial
formats by specialty labels like 2L. If you could recommend one or two outstanding examples that may be available on Apple music it might be interesting for me to check them out.
I've been actively into multich since the mid 70s but my musical passions have always been in the more popular forms, rock, blues, a little jazz, progressive rock specially. Like many here, I most appreciate the mixes that make active use of all available channels and have often found myself at odds with the types that just can't accept that recording style, insisting on calling it gimmicky and non-musical. I didn't spend all this money on surround only to reproduce some hall ambiance.
As you know I very much appreciated and miss your "In The Round" columns at Stereophile and will never stop my whining about your abandonment of them. Or at least until someone else there picks up the flag and runs with it. LOL ;)
Hope you had a nice Thanksgiving with friends and family..
Cheers
"Pentatone" is another well known label for classical surround recordings, first on DVD-A later on SACD. But there are also interesting classical recordings which don't bring you closer to the concert hall but play with effects like "Peter and the Wolf" on the "Tacet" label.

Problem for most audiophiles is that they are locked into their front listening where they imagine being in front of a band and can not agree to a different approach of expressing music. They are looking for a more "natural" experience and anything different is just artificial for them. That's why some can accept electronic music in surround only, because this is artificial by definition. Once you've known how modern music productions being recorded the easier it is to accept different approaches because there is almost nothing natural at all.
 
They are looking for a more "natural" experience and anything different is just artificial for them.

The Music Director at one of our local churches had arranged a concert where he had the choir spread out across the front; the percussion up front; the main pipe organ up front; the antiphonal organ in the rear; and the brass section in the rear balcony. And of course the ambience came from all around. Try duplicating that natural experience with just a two channel system.
 
Then he put on an HD tracks version of The Eagles song Hotel California. We didn't think it sounded all that great, especially compared to the 5.1 version he heard on my system. The lesson being that endlessly pouring money into two channel equipment can only get you so far.
Also the lesson of "Just because it says 'HDtracks' doesn't mean it's a good mastering." I've been thoroughly unimpressed comparing some of their stuff against early CD releases in terms of dynamic range. Not all, but a lot.
 
Sometimes, I think we're just living in an alternate universe from the High Enders who still believe vinyl is KING! Their high end rags still tout it as the second coming, boutique reissue companies like Acoustic Sound and MoFi still press it by the hundreds [thousands over the years] and up the ante by enticing them with 45 rpm 200g remasters and we, surround aficionados get the 'crumbs' with the occasional Stereo SACD still costing between $30~35 per remaster and have to turn to the occasional major and minor labels for Surround releases mostly in the form of box sets a lot of which still include vinyl [just in case].
Ugh... people who will look you dead in the eye and say digitally remastered vinyl is the best way to listen to an album. No wonder the world is a mess, when that's the kind of thing people with money convince themselves of, and repeat as gospel.
 
The Music Director at one of our local churches had arranged a concert where he had the choir spread out across the front; the percussion up front; the main pipe organ up front; the antiphonal organ in the rear; and the brass section in the rear balcony. And of course the ambience came from all around. Try duplicating that natural experience with just a two channel system.
"Sounds gimmicky and artificial." - 'audiophiles' sitting in the room during the live performance
 
Also the lesson of "Just because it says 'HDtracks' doesn't mean it's a good mastering." I've been thoroughly unimpressed comparing some of their stuff against early CD releases in terms of dynamic range. Not all, but a lot.
I stopped buying from HDtracks, so many releases are brickwalled now. It's primarily the fault of the record companies but HDTracks should be refusing these defective releases. HDTracks should also show the DR value of all that they sell.
 
The Music Director at one of our local churches had arranged a concert where he had the choir spread out across the front; the percussion up front; the main pipe organ up front; the antiphonal organ in the rear; and the brass section in the rear balcony. And of course the ambience came from all around. Try duplicating that natural experience with just a two channel system.
I remember a performance of Holst’s “The Planets” back in the late 90s. Toward the end of the piece, there’s an off-stage choir. In that performance, the choir was in the balcony, split very wide. It was magical!
 
I have the 19 cut 2L downloaded 5.1 sampler from 2009 but I don't believe its in Atmos on the stream?
Just a bit of curiosity. LOL

Back in 2009 2L was only recording for 2 and up to 7.1 channel. Atmos and Auro-3D came later. I have many later 2L discs with Atmos and/or Auro-3D.
 
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I can understand being misinformed if you've only ever seen cheapness gimmicky stuff aimed at movie watching. If you can navigate equipment for high end stereo though... it's the same gear and it's right there! That doesn't exactly track. Maybe just a little because that cheap essentially phony movie surround stuff is sure widespread and sure cheap! The soundbar takes that cheapness to a new low too.

Super conservative listeners who only like things in front of them? I'm guessing tritones are off the table too, right? Could be.

I think it's more sour grapes than anything else! Bought the expensive speaker wire and many other over priced things. Flexed on it to all their friends before realizing they got a little screwed on some bits. Committed now! Starts calculating the price to expand all that to 6 or 12 channels. O.O Ahem. I believe those grapes are sour! And I only have two ears. And I'm not allowed to listen to that progressive thing with sound coming from everywhere just like real life.
 
I have heard some really great stereo systems, whether vinyl or solid state, which image wonderfully and "fill" the room well. And some of them were not super expensive systems at all. My own dedicated home theater prior to upgrade/renovation in progress, sounded wonderful in stereo only - and even a bit better using Auro-3D with my Trinnov SSP! And I luv multi-channel as well. I have 3 systems in my home - 5.1.5 (last # is subwoofers), 5.4.2 (Atmos) and soon 11.12.7!

Funny. I just was notified I won the grand prize in the Secrets of Home Theater contest, winning the below 2 channel amplifier. But I don't know what I'm gonna do with it as my systems are not setup for this low power The grand prize amplfiier is at the very end of the list in the below weblink - a low power 25 watt Class A stereo amplifier. Sure my local stereo buddies with low power tube setups will want me to bring it over to try.

https://hometheaterhifi.com/30th-anniversary/secrets-30th-anniversary-winners/



https://www.firstwatt.com/product/f...ebsite&utm_campaign=30th_Anniversary_Giveaway
 
I have heard some really great stereo systems, whether vinyl or solid state, which image wonderfully and "fill" the room well. And some of them were not super expensive systems at all. My own dedicated home theater prior to upgrade/renovation in progress, sounded wonderful in stereo only - and even a bit better using Auro-3D with my Trinnov SSP! And I luv multi-channel as well. I have 3 systems in my home - 5.1.5 (last # is subwoofers), 5.4.2 (Atmos) and soon 11.12.7!

Funny. I just was notified I won the grand prize in the Secrets of Home Theater contest, winning the below 2 channel amplifier. But I don't know what I'm gonna do with it as my systems are not setup for this low power The grand prize amplfiier is at the very end of the list in the below weblink - a low power 25 watt Class A stereo amplifier. Sure my local stereo buddies with low power tube setups will want me to bring it over to try.

https://hometheaterhifi.com/30th-anniversary/secrets-30th-anniversary-winners/



https://www.firstwatt.com/product/f...ebsite&utm_campaign=30th_Anniversary_Giveaway
Congratulations Steve ...it's a beauty. Maybe you can hook it up to your alarm clock to avoid the stridency of that first wake up call!
 
Congratulations Steve ...it's a beauty. Maybe you can hook it up to your alarm clock to avoid the stridency of that first wake up call!

I've been retired for over 5 years now - my "job" now is transporting grandkids regularly!!!! And thats in the afternoon. I'm up by then. HA!

I guess I could put a nice stereo system in the hallway to my home theater for folks waiting to get a seat! Or a bedroom stereo system. HA!
 
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With the right speakers I'm sure the amp will sound great. First Watt is owned and designed by Nelson Pass, one of the premier high end amplifier designers and manufacturers. None of my current speakers are high efficiency like what this amp requires.
Decades ago, I had some Altec folded horn speakers. Took little to drive them, as I recall. Back then I don't think I had anything that would push more than 45 w/ch.
 
Back in 2009 2L was only recording for 2 and up to .1 channel.
That may be so and I don't remember the exact year I downloaded the sampler but I can only go by what 2L says about the year the sampler was recorded and released?
back.jpg
 
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