Questions on Atmos quality on various streaming platforms

[Franck]

One little note, not every Dolby Atmos signal comes out Atmos, I have seen a Dolby Atmos signal come out 5.1, 4.0 and Atmos. I believe it has nothing to do with the streaming service but more to do with the remix itself.
Whew, that was a long one.

Well, I have released quadraphonic pieces of music in Atmos. And yes when you look at the signal it feels only a 4.0, but it is in Atmos with 4 objects each one located in each corner, where coincidently the speakers are...
I know a few quadraphonics albums in Atmos Format.
So the output is Atmos, but the decoding makes it like a 4.0, and if you are on headset with head tracking, well, binaural.

The only caveat to that, on Apple Music the encoding is DD+JOC, where the base is a 5.1 signal, so if your decoder does not understand Atmos (like quicktime) you get the 5.1 signal.

 

[marpow]

Well, I have released quadraphonic pieces of music in Atmos. And yes when you look at the signal it feels only a 4.0, but it is in Atmos with 4 objects each one located in each corner, where coincidently the speakers are...
I know a few quadraphonics albums in Atmos Format.
So the output is Atmos, but the decoding makes it like a 4.0, and if you are on headset with head tracking, well, binaural.

The only caveat to that, on Apple Music the encoding is DD+JOC, where the base is a 5.1 signal, so if your decoder does not understand Atmos (like quicktime) you get the 5.1 signal.

Awesome, we are on the same page.

 

[pat bateman]

This happens way to often and is why I installed LED meters for the heights and surround backs to monitor the output.

Teach Me!

 

[Cheezmo]

This happens way to often and is why I installed LED meters for the heights and surround backs to monitor the output.

If you have to install LED meters because you can't actually hear the difference what does it really matter?

 

[LB-V]

a fair question. And speaking as a fellow old guy, I would suggest you put this to the test. Find some youngster who is willing to bring over his Apple TV (or some other streaming device) and connect it to your system. Then ask them to play some of your favorite mixes, so you can decide for yourself whether the audio quality is worth It or not.

You might be surprised…

Yes....agree! And along those same lines, Apple has a 30 day, no questions asked return policy. You can buy one, try it out using a 30 day free Apple Music trial period, return it if you are not enjoying. Try out Willie Nelson's "A Beautiful Time" album. Great music and very well done surround.

Just need HDMI input on your AVR / pre / pro.

 

[perzon57]

If you have to install LED meters because you can't actually hear the difference what does it really matter?

Well, off course I hear the difference on good mixes, but some Atmos mixes ain't good or they are not Atmos at all, even if my AVC says so. So instead of having to stick my ear to the heights or SB speakers to verify, I just look at meters.

 

[perzon57]

OK, language Ted. I really would like to think you understand what I am saying. Subject is STREAMING ONLY WITH APPLE 4K.

When looking at music via a Apple4K box (Apple Music App) we all know that the Atmos signal will have a moniker at top of album saying Dolby Atmos, some titles will not have the Dolby Atmos moniker at top if there are no Atmos tracks or less than a full album of Atmos tracks. Atmos tracks ie; 2 of 10. This example, two of ten, only those two tracks will have the Atmos moniker, but the main album will not.

These albums that are fully Atmos enalbed where you get the Atmos signal on all tracks, sometimes are giving us the full force of all there is and sometimes not so much. Shitty Atmos mix not delivering as one would want to all speakers.
Example, full Dolby Atmos signal at AVR like I show in picture above, but nothing coming out of heights or only no center chanel, ad infinitem.

As I said in Post 7131, and I think your hung up on the below sentence.

I will rephrase, when playing music from the Apple Music App all Dolby Atmos signals, come to your speaker set up as Dolby Atmos from Apple Music to your AVR or Pre/Pro, however, due to shitty mixes, what makes it to a heard listening level at your personal speaker set up can be anything from a Dolby Atmos awesome experience, a 4.1 experience to a 5.1 experience, even with minute nothings in heights.
All of the above I guess is easier to say. All of us that listen to Atmos frequently will be able to say, that was awesome or that was basically MCH as nothing was coming through the heights.
For the newcomer lurking on this thread, and thats who I always am writing to, I don't want to give the impression that Atmos Streaming is always a full envelope of Atmos surround, it is sometimes very blah.

How do I know this or decipher this? I own 3 amps that control 9 speakers, all amps have VU meters, sometimes those meters do not move, depending on the mix, or whoever mixed it. I can also turn on and off the amps to hear exactly what is coming out of the rears and center, the two fronts and the four tops. Plus my own ear experience of course.

As @perzon57 just said, the Ghost albums (disapointing) are a perfect example, cool they are in surround, cool they do have the Dolby Atmos moniker/logo, but definately not Atmos in the sense of Van Morrison Moondance or Fleetwood Mac Tango In The Night.

One more note for the newcomer. If your reciever wheter it be PC or AVR or iPhone, etc cannot playback Dolby Atmos, when you open the Apple Music app it will not show the Dolby Atmos logo. You will not be able to play a folded down version it will just default to stereo.
When I play music on home rig, all my albums on my playlist that are Dolby Atmos, say Dolby Atmos.
The same playlist viewed from my PC at work, show no Dolby Atmos logo.
My iPhone when connected to my bluetooth stereo in my garage, the same Apple playlist has no Dolby Atmos logo, the same iPhone, the same Apple Music app, now with my Spatial Audio enabled BEATS headphones, the Dolby Atmos logo appears.
I can't explain, but obviously the app "Apple Music" is able to read the ability to playback Dolby Atmos?

I have explained myself the best I know how. Hopefully someone learned something?

Nice post. Will only comment that at least one of the Ghost albums has a decent Atmos mix.

 

[LB-V]

I just look at meters

Besides that, meters are cool....I turn on my QRX-9001 just to take in the beauty of her lit up faceplate and meters....even though I have not had her in the system for a year or so. Nutty, I know.

Edit: The Wurly Scope is running all the time. Talk about cool and not needing to put my ear to any speaker...it's all right there for the viewing! One of the best pieces ever purchased...and knowing @Wurly1 built these pieces by hand....makes it extraordinary.

 

[Strilo]

For the record, I moved these posts from the Streaming thread, in which they were off-topic. I have updated the thread title for those folks objecting to the previous Amazon focused one.

A reminder that the "Listening to" thread is not for general Atmos or streaming questions, it's for sharing new things we are listening to and found on streaming. Discussions like this one are off-topic and we try to keep threads focused. There's no issue with making a new thread for things like this.

 

[ManWhoCan]

If you can't get a good mix to sound good streaming, there is something wrong with your setup. Rant all you want, but if you can't get the Atmos mix of Van Morrison Moondance, for example, to sound good, then you are simply doing it wrong.

Simply telling someone they are doing it wrong, with no advise as how to do it right, is not at all helpful. I get the impression you might mean invest as much as I have in all new hardware and a GBit www connection is the only solution.

 

[ManWhoCan]

Question about Atmos streams. Does it require an HDMI connection in the playback chain? I seem to have got the idea that it does from somewhere. My receiver uses analogue outs with no HDMI. Atmos sounds 'awful' on my system. Mind you I've only listened to the lossy 16/48 streamed 5.1 stuff available from Apple and Tidal etc..
When I say 'awful' I mean there is nothing in the rears, but the fronts sound much as one might expect at a mere 16/44. If I convert the m4a to flac some tracks then have a little in the rears, but only audible if I wear the rears as headphones strapped to my head!

Someone like Steven Wilson would be needed to effectively deal with this wall of sound. Then, if he could please do Scorpions Lovedrive album in Atmos, that would be fine. Holiday in Atmos would be my dream....

Steven Wilson is in the fortunate position of being able to only work on albums he personally likes.

 

[admsh]

Question about Atmos streams. Does it require an HDMI connection in the playback chain? I seem to have got the idea that it does from somewhere. My receiver uses analogue outs with no HDMI. Atmos sounds 'awful' on my system. Mind you I've only listened to the lossy 16/48 streamed 5.1 stuff available from Apple and Tidal etc..
When I say 'awful' I mean there is nothing in the rears, but the fronts sound much as one might expect at a mere 16/44. If I convert the m4a to flac some tracks then have a little in the rears, but only audible if I wear the rears as headphones strapped to my head!

Steven Wilson is in the fortunate position of being able to only work on albums he personally likes.

Unless you're listening to quad using 70s equipment, how else are you connecting anything to your AVR? Any DVD/BRD/SACD player would need to be connected via HDMI and so would any streaming device. I expect that any AVR with no HDMI input would not have the capability to decode Atmos streams from local files either.

 

[tlake6659]

Question about Atmos streams. Does it require an HDMI connection in the playback chain? I seem to have got the idea that it does from somewhere. My receiver uses analogue outs with no HDMI. Atmos sounds 'awful' on my system. Mind you I've only listened to the lossy 16/48 streamed 5.1 stuff available from Apple and Tidal etc..
When I say 'awful' I mean there is nothing in the rears, but the fronts sound much as one might expect at a mere 16/44. If I convert the m4a to flac some tracks then have a little in the rears, but only audible if I wear the rears as headphones strapped to my head!

Steven Wilson is in the fortunate position of being able to only work on albums he personally likes.

There must be a settings issue that is causing this. How do you have it set up?

 

[JediJoker]

...the fronts sound much as one might expect at a mere 16/44.

Lossless Redbook resolution would not cause an audible difference in sound quality compared to higher resolutions, given the same mix and master.

 

[ManWhoCan]

Unless you're listening to quad using 70s equipment, how else are you connecting anything to your AVR? Any DVD/BRD/SACD player would need to be connected via HDMI and so would any streaming device. I expect that any AVR with no HDMI input would not have the capability to decode Atmos streams from local files either.

I'm sure you don't mean to sound so dismissive and unfriendly. My equipment is not from the 70s, silly, but it is current with the the early years of HDMI, which I'll leave up to you to research when that was.

 

[ManWhoCan]

I found the solution to my problem of not being able to get any decent sound from Atmos lossy streams, which are all 16/48 in 5.1 for those that think Atmos means there has to be more channels than 6 involved. The software players I tried, like Foobar, MPC-BE & VLC just made the rears dead. Eventually I discovered that since Windows 10 'creators update' WinX natively decodes Atmos in it's own apps (which I tend to ignore, even uninstall): Windows Media Player decodes m4a & the WINX app 'Movie & TV' decodes mp4. I believe other software players, such as Cyberlink, also decode Atmos.
Thank you for that answer on this thread somewhere.
As it was made as an audio format for movies & games maybe it is not surprising that the more (audiophile) audio players don't deal with Atmos, but the video focused players do?
Now I can use these WINX apps to play the several Atmos lossy stream files I have and now I finally hear what all the fuss is about!
IMHO Atmos lossy streams, considering they are not much better than empty3 quality, sound OK in the front, but the rear seem to just have low volume ATMOSphere, depending on who did the mix. For most of the files I have, discounting the superior mixes by Steven Wilson and even Giles Martin, the rears only sound balanced in the mix if I reduce the volume of the fronts to about 75%. Isolating the rears: what I hear there is meh! Seems to me Lossy Streamed Atmos is, so far at least, a solution for a non-existent problem. All hail Quadio on BluRay or DVD-A I say.

 

[perzon57]

I found the solution to my problem of not being able to get any decent sound from Atmos lossy streams, which are all 16/48 in 5.1 for those that think Atmos means there has to be more channels than 6 involved. The software players I tried, like Foobar, MPC-BE & VLC just made the rears dead. Eventually I discovered that since Windows 10 'creators update' WinX natively decodes Atmos in it's own apps (which I tend to ignore, even uninstall): Windows Media Player decodes m4a & the WINX app 'Movie & TV' decodes mp4. I believe other software players, such as Cyberlink, also decode Atmos.
Thank you for that answer on this thread somewhere.
As it was made as an audio format for movies & games maybe it is not surprising that the more (audiophile) audio players don't deal with Atmos, but the video focused players do?
Now I can use these WINX apps to play the several Atmos lossy stream files I have and now I finally hear what all the fuss is about!
IMHO Atmos lossy streams, considering they are not much better than empty3 quality, sound OK in the front, but the rear seem to just have low volume ATMOSphere, depending on who did the mix. For most of the files I have, discounting the superior mixes by Steven Wilson and even Giles Martin, the rears only sound balanced in the mix if I reduce the volume of the fronts to about 75%. Isolating the rears: what I hear there is meh! Seems to me Lossy Streamed Atmos is, so far at least, a solution for a non-existent problem. All hail Quadio on BluRay or DVD-A I say.

Atmos streaming sounds good with good mixes on an Atmos setup which it does not seem that you have?

 

[sjcorne]

For most of the files I have, discounting the superior mixes by Steven Wilson and even Giles Martin, the rears only sound balanced in the mix

There are dozens of great Atmos mixes on the streaming services not done by those two - this is just a small selection that came to mind, but I'd investigate the following:

• Haken - Fauna (Bruce Soord)
• Frank Zappa - Waka/Wazoo (Karma Auger & Erich Gobels)
• Temptations - Sky's The Limit (Mills Logan)
• St. Vincent - Daddy's Home (Mert Ozcan)
• Tori Amos - Ocean To Ocean (Adrian Hall)
• Daft Punk - Random Access Memories (Mick Guzauski)
• R.E.M. - Murmur (David Leonard)
• William Orbit - The Painter (William Orbit)
• Elton John - Diamonds (Greg Penny)
• Lyle Lovett - 12th Of June (Chuck Ainlay)

 

[ManWhoCan]

Atmos streaming sounds good with good mixes on an Atmos setup which it does not seem that you have?

Please define 'an Atmos setup'

 

[perzon57]

Please define 'an Atmos setup'

An Atmos capable receiver/prepro with at least a 5.1.2 speaker setup.