Reavon Blu-ray DVD-Audio SACD player coming out in Europe.

[Sonik Wiz]

Whilst the toroidal mains transformer has become very trendy over the past few years they are far from perfect and have several disadvantages over EI cores. One of the biggest ones being their susceptibility (there's a magnetic theory joke for you!) to core saturation - making them especially vulnerable to any DC component on the line.

I first noticed toroidal transformers in the late 80's in European gear. So it's hard for me to think of them as trendy. Toroidal transformer vs laminated core, open air vs iron core coils, metal film resistors vs wire wound, electro caps vs film, ... they all have unique qualities & wise circuit design chooses which ones. I would never do a DIY project with a LC transformer in the power supply if I could find a suitable toroidal.

And you raise an interesting point about saturation from a DC component... how much DC on an AC mains can be expected at the primary to a transformer?

 

[Titch]

My dealer, who used to sell Oppo players, is stocking the upcoming Reavon players. But they also have some very expensive Pioneer Audiocom UDP-LX800 players - a cool $7500 smackeroos. Doesn't look like they play DVD-audio discs either. Anyone know how these perform, compared to the Oppo 205?

 

[LuvMyQuad]

My dealer, who used to sell Oppo players, is stocking the upcoming Reavon players. But they also have some very expensive Pioneer Audiocom UDP-LX800 players - a cool $7500 smackeroos. Doesn't look like they play DVD-audio discs either. Anyone know how these perform, compared to the Oppo 205?

For that much cash you'd think they would have included MCH analog out

 

[Tribby2001]

Doesn't look like they play DVD-audio discs either.

Just to quash any further rumors, the Reavon UBR-X100 and X200 user manuals (page 43) indicate they both will play DVD-Audio:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/xxeq28oop5jorwk/UBR-X100-X200 US Version.pdf?dl=0
Only the UBR-X200 plays SACDs

 

[DuncanS]

Only the UBR-X200 plays SACDs

Yet bizarrely the X100 & X200 are based on the same Mediatek MTK8581 so they're trying to drive people to spend the maximum!

 

[Soundfield]

And you raise an interesting point about saturation from a DC component... how much DC on an AC mains can be expected at the primary to a transformer?

It varies hugely from country to country I think because it comes down to how the earth and neutral lines are connected (and where) and the sort of loads connected to your local supply. Several amplifier manufactures make a point of having DC Blocker circuits in their power input stages (e.g. PrimaLuna) and our friend Rod Elliot has published designs for them-

Mains DC blocking

 

[Owen Smith]

Did you have an issue with the Oppo performance? Also, I don't get your case study comment? The Oppo was less expensive and high quality so it had a following. Are you saying that if they went cheap to save the customer a few dollars, they would have a better reputation? The only thing I agree with is the overpriced comment...

Oppo Digital were making a profit. But Oppo in China could make more profit using the same production line volume to make mobile phones instead, so the blu ray players got ditched. And given how well the Oppos worked and the second hand prices now, they could have put their prices up.

 

[Owen Smith]

Whilst the toroidal mains transformer has become very trendy over the past few years they are far from perfect and have several disadvantages over EI cores. One of the biggest ones being their susceptibility (there's a magnetic theory joke for you!) to core saturation - making them especially vulnerable to any DC component on the line.

I like toroidals because unlike standard ones they are not susceptible to mechanical hum at mains frequency. I hate gear where I can hear the hum of the transformer.

 

[Nyad]

I first noticed toroidal transformers in the late 80's in European gear. So it's hard for me to think of them as trendy. Toroidal transformer vs laminated core, open air vs iron core coils, metal film resistors vs wire wound, electro caps vs film, ... they all have unique qualities & wise circuit design chooses which ones. I would never do a DIY project with a LC transformer in the power supply if I could find a suitable toroidal.

And you raise an interesting point about saturation from a DC component... how much DC on an AC mains can be expected at the primary to a transformer?

I have a Plinius power amp from the mid 80's with a toroidal transformer (in fact I had to have it replaced about 15 years ago as it shorted out by rubbing against a tight fitting case) but saying that it has been running almost continuously for almost 35 years, (beat that!) I think the damage occurred when I moved house as well.

Actually I see they were using toroidal transformers in 1980:
https://www.stereonet.com/forums/topic/301710-plinius-ii-iii-pre-and-power-amplifier/

 

[Soundfield]

I like toroidals because unlike standard ones they are not susceptible to mechanical hum at mains frequency. I hate gear where I can hear the hum of the transformer.

They hum if they are saturated.

 

[Owen Smith]

They hum if they are saturated.

Well that's never happened to me in the UK with toriodals.

 

[dadregga]

Did you have an issue with the Oppo performance? Also, I don't get your case study comment? The Oppo was less expensive and high quality so it had a following. Are you saying that if they went cheap to save the customer a few dollars, they would have a better reputation? The only thing I agree with is the overpriced comment...

No, I mean that the internals of the Oppo show it's massively bespoke and expensive, to a degree that the original list price of like $1299 or whatever it was seems comically low - they probably didn't make a profit on those things at all versus the number they sold.

I'm not attacking Oppo - I think they (made) great stuff - just saying they probably overengineered the 205 for the price point they chose and market they were targeting, and that certainly didn't help keep them afloat in the AV market.

I'm also not saying the Oppo 205 performs poorly at all - it's great - but I'm saying that it's a bit silly to say the Reavon is somehow a worse performer than the Oppo based on how the internals look. We have to measure it to see that. The Reavon probably does measure worse, if I had to guess. But that would be a guess because higher numbers of large, bespoke internal components does not equate to better sound quality - there's plenty of "handcrafted" gear with beautiful internals that measure far worse than "cheap" offerings that cost a third as much in the AV world.

 

[Sonik Wiz]

It varies hugely from country to country I think because it comes down to how the earth and neutral lines are connected (and where) and the sort of loads connected to your local supply. Several amplifier manufactures make a point of having DC Blocker circuits in their power input stages (e.g. PrimaLuna) and our friend Rod Elliot has published designs for them-

Mains DC blocking

Excellent tutorial. Thanks!

 

[bigd86]

Just to quash any further rumors, the Reavon UBR-X100 and X200 user manuals (page 43) indicate they both will play DVD-Audio:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/xxeq28oop5jorwk/UBR-X100-X200 US Version.pdf?dl=0
Only the UBR-X200 plays SACDs

The manual not withstanding, all we need to confirm DVD-A playback is have someone on this thread stick one in the machine and see what happens!

 

[Tribby2001]

It varies hugely from country to country I think because it comes down to how the earth and neutral lines are connected (and where) and the sort of loads connected to your local supply. Several amplifier manufactures make a point of having DC Blocker circuits in their power input stages (e.g. PrimaLuna) and our friend Rod Elliot has published designs for them-

Mains DC blocking

An EI Core transformer has a lower coupling capacitance between the primary and secondary windings so it blocks high frequency common mode noise from the AC mains far better than a toroidal transformer.

http://www.soundstagenetwork.com/maxdb/maxdb071998.htm

 

[Tribby2001]

The manual not withstanding, all we need to confirm DVD-A playback is have someone on this thread stick one in the machine and see what happens!

Why such a mystery? Are there DVD players that don't play DVD-Audio? It's advertised on their web site:

https://www.reavon.com/reavon-ubr-x100
Main features

• Universal Disc Player - Ultra HD Blu-ray, Blu-ray, DVD, DVD Audio, CD

https://www.reavon.com/reavon-ubr-x200
Main features

• Universal Disc Player - Ultra HD Blu-ray, Blu-ray, Blu-ray 3D, DVD, DVD Audio, SACD, CD

 

[4-earredwonder]

Why such a mystery? Are there DVD players that don't play DVD-Audio? It's advertised on their web site:

https://www.reavon.com/reavon-ubr-x100
Main features

• Universal Disc Player - Ultra HD Blu-ray, Blu-ray, DVD, DVD Audio, CD

Ironically, there are DVD Players that only play the DTS/DD codecs and NOT MLP DVD~A 5.1.

 

[Sonik Wiz]

Ironically, there are DVD Players that only play the DTS/DD codecs and NOT MLP DVD~A 5.1.

There are many DVD players that do not play DVD-A over the course of time.
Tribby seems un-aware.

Edit: I have a few of those in my closet...

 

[Tribby2001]

Ironically, there are DVD Players that only play the DTS/DD codecs and NOT MLP DVD~A 5.1.

Meridien Lossless Packing (MLP) has been adopted by the DVD consortium as the standard PPCM compressed format. All DVD-Audio players must support this format! It would be a pathetic omission for a 2021 Audiophile Universal player! I'd be shocked I tell you!

 

[Tribby2001]

Tribby seems un-aware.

I am unaware! I only have a handful of DVD-As and only OPPOs

[edit] are you sure they are DVD-audio players???