Receivers that decode 4.0 PCM/MLP recordings over HDMI

[César]

This is exactly what I tried to explain in an earlier post.


Check the Oppo and try changing the output settings. I think my Oppo 83 will pass 4.0 properly and it is a generation older than your 93

Unless I'm wrong, player settings are not relevant in this case. We can choose either PCM or bitstream, but as the source music is in PCM, what it's being sent to the AVR is the same, isn't it? In any case, I tried yesterday changing the parameter and got the same behaviour.
Funnily, the Dolby encoded DVD plays fine in 4.0, I need to understand why

 

[Larry Geller]

Unless I'm wrong, player settings are not relevant in this case. We can choose either PCM or bitstream, but as the source music is in PCM, what it's being sent to the AVR is the same, isn't it? In any case, I tried yesterday changing the parameter and got the same behaviour.
Funnily, the Dolby encoded DVD plays fine in 4.0, I need to understand why

Dolby and DTS 4.0 present no problem for the chip.

 

[Philip Spinner]

Ahhh the old days when you just plug in your 6 analog inputs and your ready to go.

 

[Mark Anderson]

Ahhh the old days when you just plug in your 6 analog inputs and your ready to go.

Which we still have but no bass Management or Auro 3D / Dolby Atmos upmixing since the HDMI does not work

 

[DuncanS]

Unless I'm wrong, player settings are not relevant in this case. We can choose either PCM or bitstream, but as the source music is in PCM, what it's being sent to the AVR is the same, isn't it? In any case, I tried yesterday changing the parameter and got the same behaviour.
Funnily, the Dolby encoded DVD plays fine in 4.0, I need to understand why

The HDMI specification allows for encoded multi-channel formats like DTS/Dolby but only specifies stereo PCM, multi-channel PCM is down to whether the manufacturer implements it, and as most have never heard of Quad, 4.0 PCM will often be forgotten

 

[harync]

I have an Oppo 93 running into a Denon 3312 and the combination decodes 4.0 from disc and files perfectly. I also have a Sony UBP-X800m2 and a Pioneer VSX-LX503, and the combination is really spotty. It will not play 4.0 from some discs/files, but will for others. In particular, the WYWH BD 4.0 will not play the opening guitar solo on "Have a Cigar" properly (it plays properly with the Oppo/Denon). Strangely, VLC player on a PC does the same thing not playing the guitar solo. I went into Audacity and flipped the LR and RF, and then the you can hear the solo.

 

[Mark Anderson]

I have an Oppo 93 running into a Denon 3312 and the combination decodes 4.0 from disc and files perfectly

Thanks for the info. Could you clarify what type of 4.0 disc that play properly? are they DVD-Audio home brew of quad transfers not playing the dolby digital layer? Also just to be clear the Oppo 93 with the 3312 will play the "Wish you were here" bluray properly?

 

[J. PUPSTER]

The HDMI specification allows for encoded multi-channel formats like DTS/Dolby but only specifies stereo PCM, multi-channel PCM is down to whether the manufacturer implements it, and as most have never heard of Quad, 4.0 PCM will often be forgotten

So is this just about what certain chips the manufacturer decides to put in a particular model (maybe to save a couple bucks for a slightly less functional chip?)

 

[J. PUPSTER]

The Chicago quad box is not DTS or DD right? It’s 24/96 pcm I thought. Anyway most are playing Blu-ray Discs on Blu-ray players I’d guess. And the channel layout would just work, right.

I believe the Chicago Quadio is 24/192 x 4 channel, which is relatively rare, and hoping for the same if we ever get The Doobie Brothers Quadio.

 

[Mark Anderson]

So is this just about what certain chips the manufacturer decides to put in a particular model (maybe to save a couple bucks for a slightly less functional chip?)

It is about the software that is written to tell the chip what to do with it, not a limitation of the chip itself

 

[J. PUPSTER]

It is about the software that is written to tell the chip what to do with it, not a limitation of the chip itself

Forgive me if I'm behind on this thread, but seems to me to mean; it would just take a firmware update then to activate these limitations.
If so, then it's an evil poor ludicrous joke in the face of all things we hold sacredly Quad! And yes, this matters to me, in that at some point I'll need to replace my old AVR with one that has HDMI.

 

[harync]

Thanks for the info. Could you clarify what type of 4.0 disc that play properly? are they DVD-Audio home brew of quad transfers not playing the dolby digital layer? Also just to be clear the Oppo 93 with the 3312 will play the "Wish you were here" bluray properly?

The Oppo 93/Denon 3312 has played every quad mix correctly from DTS-CD (Zaireeka Home Brew), Commercial and Homebrew DVD-A, BD (including Wish You Were Here), and files from a hard drive in WAV or FLAC.

I'll have to double-check, but I believe the Sony / Pioneer combination failed to play a DVD-Audio home brew of the Alan Parson's Dark Side of the Moon (played as stereo). It played the Immersion Dark Side BD and DVD-Audio discs properly. It would not play the Immersion Quad Mix as WAV files, but would play them as FLAC files. Pretty Much the same story for Wish You Were Here, with the strange failure on "Have a Cigar" in every single format. Since the VLC player makes the same error, I'm guessing there's something very specific to that track that affects a circa 2019 codec, but must not be in older hardware (circa 2009).

 

[Mark Anderson]

Forgive me if I'm behind on this thread, but seems to me to mean; it would just take a firmware update then to activate these limitations.

That is my understanding also. Marantz just refuses to address the issue.

 

[J. PUPSTER]

Lots of brands under this umbrella:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DEI_Holdings

 

[LuvMyQuad]

The biggest problem with this flaw happens when playback is by via physical disk. That means it affects a handful of older 4.0 commercial mixes on various formats (depending on what flavor of problem you actually have) and most 4.0 PCM based homemade transfers. For file playback, it is a relatively simple matter to add silent centers and/or LFE channels. I think you would be hard pressed to find any true 4.0 commercial releases coming out now. It seems any 4.0 release I've gotten in the last 5 years or so already had added empty center and LFE channels.

From the manufacturers point of view, there are no current 4.0 commercial releases, hence the reluctance to remedy it.

 

[DuncanS]

So is this just about what certain chips the manufacturer decides to put in a particular model (maybe to save a couple bucks for a slightly less functional chip?)

As most amps/receivers will have DSPs its more likely it'll be due to them having not written the firmware to decode that format from the audio stream.

 

[Larry Geller]

That is my understanding also. Marantz just refuses to address the issue.

Onkyo/Integra fixed it via firmware update. Marantz can't be bothered to do it.

 

[Larry Geller]

The Oppo 93/Denon 3312 has played every quad mix correctly from DTS-CD (Zaireeka Home Brew), Commercial and Homebrew DVD-A, BD (including Wish You Were Here), and files from a hard drive in WAV or FLAC.

I'll have to double-check, but I believe the Sony / Pioneer combination failed to play a DVD-Audio home brew of the Alan Parson's Dark Side of the Moon (played as stereo). It played the Immersion Dark Side BD and DVD-Audio discs properly. It would not play the Immersion Quad Mix as WAV files, but would play them as FLAC files. Pretty Much the same story for Wish You Were Here, with the strange failure on "Have a Cigar" in every single format. Since the VLC player makes the same error, I'm guessing there's something very specific to that track that affects a circa 2019 codec, but must not be in older hardware (circa 2009).

Problem didn't show up in receivers until around 2014.

 

[HomerJAU]

And yes, this matters to me, in that at some point I'll need to replace my old AVR with one that has HDMI.

Another reason to convert to FLAC and fix the quad, adding silent channel(s).

 

[Kal Rubinson]

Another reason to convert to FLAC and fix the quad, adding silent channel(s).

Sure, but once you convert it to FLAC, you can just play it without any manipulations if you use an intelligent music player program.