Ripping in surround for Apple TV

[chescowx]

Now you are talking about using the Music app? If you rip something and it gets "uploaded" that upload will be lossy AAC 256kpbs. No way it is multichannel. If it gets "matched" then you may get the Dolby Atmos version when you play it on your AppleTV if there is an Atmos version of that song in Apple Music (which would be the case for the white album, but not Beatles Love), again, really curious what you are saying you are doing here because it doesn't match my experience.

See the above it does indeed work it you use foobar and choose the top choice AAC (Apple) this will convert the files to an M4a file)(see below) - you then simply add these files to a new folder on your computer and upload that folder with the Itunes app and you are in business. Let me know if this is not clear.

 

[chescowx]

Interesting, it looks like your files are lossy .m4a, I've only really only been using lossless ALAC files. I will play with converting some of my 5.1 flacs to lossy .m4a files and see what I get.

Let me know how you make out?? Good luck!!

 

[chescowx]

Now you are talking about using the Music app? If you rip something and it gets "uploaded" that upload will be lossy AAC 256kpbs. No way it is multichannel. If it gets "matched" then you may get the Dolby Atmos version when you play it on your AppleTV if there is an Atmos version of that song in Apple Music (which would be the case for the white album, but not Beatles Love), again, really curious what you are saying you are doing here because it doesn't match my experience.

By the way there is no Atmos or Surround Sound version yet on Apple Music of The White Album....but my rip and upload of the bluray now gives me a surround sound White Album option in the apple music app

 

[Cheezmo]

OK, I took a flac 5.1 rip of Because from the Love Album, used xACT to convert it to a multichannel compressed .m4a file, added it to my Apple Music Library. It matched it, and when played in Music on the AppleTV it plays in stereo. You are definitely doing something different so lets, try to break it down step by step, focusing on one song.

 

[Cheezmo]

By the way there is no Atmos or Surround Sound version yet on Apple Music of The White Album....but my rip and upload of the bluray now gives me a surround sound White Album option in the apple music app

You are correct, there is no Atmos of The White Album, my mistake.

 

[SeeMoreDigital]

You are definitely doing something different so lets, try to break it down step by step, focusing on one song.

How about starting with the model number/version of the Apple TV 4K device?

 

[Cheezmo]

I have figured it out. If you convert to a 256kbp (or lower) multichannel AAC (.m4a) and Apple Music "uploads" it, it will upload the unaltered .m4a and when you play it back on an AppleTV you will play back the multichannel .m4a. If you do it at a higher bitrate, Apple Music always resamples to 256kbps and will convert it to stereo in the process.

So if you are satisfied with 256kbps multichannel AAC, you can get them added to Apple Music.

 

[SeeMoreDigital]

I have figured it out. If you convert to a 256kbp (or lower) multichannel AAC (.m4a) and Apple Music "uploads" it, it will upload the unaltered .m4a and when you play it back on an AppleTV you will play back the multichannel .m4a. If you do it at a higher bitrate, Apple Music always resamples to 256kbps and will convert it to stereo in the process.

So if you are satisfied with 256kbps multichannel AAC, you can get them added to Apple Music.

Wow... That's bonkers. Why do Apple have to make things so complicated for their customers!

Out of interest.... Did you do your tests using HE-AAC or LC-AAC, or both?

 

[Cheezmo]

Wow... That's bonkers. Why do Apple have to make things so complicated for their customers!

Out of interest.... Did you do your tests using HE-AAC or LC-AAC, or both?

It isn't really bonkers, they have made no attempt to support 5.1, it only works because they see an AAC file lower than 256kbs and just upload it, rather than reencode it same as they would for stereo. It is just fortunate that the Music app on the AppleTV actually plays it 5.1. I haven't tested but I'm curious if it would be spatial audio on an iPhone with AirPods. The number of people that would try to play their own ripped multichannel audio in Apple Music is probably incredibly small so it hasn't been worth their time to care about it.

To answer your question, I used normal AAC which I believe is LC-AAC. I imagine both would work but xACT doesn't to HE-AAC above 48kbps (it is really designed for very low bitrate streaming) so I wouldn't consider that to be an option.

 

[chescowx]

I have figured it out. If you convert to a 256kbp (or lower) multichannel AAC (.m4a) and Apple Music "uploads" it, it will upload the unaltered .m4a and when you play it back on an AppleTV you will play back the multichannel .m4a. If you do it at a higher bitrate, Apple Music always resamples to 256kbps and will convert it to stereo in the process.

So if you are satisfied with 256kbps multichannel AAC, you can get them added to Apple Music.

I guess that is up to the individual listener...It sound perfect to me! I am a surround sound hound and it was a huge plus for me as I was not a fan of having to either use a USB through a computer + HDMI or pop in one of my 5.1 DTS CDs or DVD audio discs. I now have the flexibility and convenience of enjoying all of my surround content seamlessly on the Apple TV app.

 

[Cheezmo]

One nice thing that came from this is that I was able to replace the movie file with an AC3 soundtrack that I was using in my playlists to force 5.1 mode with a tiny silent 5.1 AAC track. In fact it is so small I can attach it here! It is 5 seconds of silence in 5.1. It is higher bitrate than 256kbps so won't play 5.1 in the Music app if Uploaded to Apple Music.

So if you are using the Computers app on your AppleTV and want to play lossless multichannel ALAC files from a server with the Music app using Home Sharing you can place this track before them in the playlist to force 5.1 mode and enjoy. I've heard it will also work if you are trying to play a movie with an ALAC soundtrack.

 

[Cheezmo]

I guess that is up to the individual listener...It sound perfect to me! I am a surround sound hound and it was a huge plus for me as I was not a fan of having to either use a USB through a computer + HDMI or pop in one of my 5.1 DTS CDs or DVD audio discs. I now have the flexibility and convenience of enjoying all of my surround content seamlessly on the Apple TV app.

Absolutely. But given that 256kbps is considered only pretty good for stereo, it is hard to imagine how it would be sufficient for 6 channels. I haven't done any listening tests, but since I have a way to playback my lossless ALAC and have no plans to convert 12K songs to another format, I'm going to stick with that!

 

[chescowx]

Absolutely. But given that 256kbps is considered only pretty good for stereo, it is hard to imagine how it would be sufficient for 6 channels. I haven't done any listening tests, but since I have a way to playback my lossless ALAC and have no plans to convert 12K songs to another format, I'm going to stick with that!

Makes sense! I just like having one stop shopping for all my surround needs....that said if I was an audiophile with a trained ear I would likely spot the degraded sound quality - but to these ears these surround tracks run circles around their stereo counterparts!!

 

[SeeMoreDigital]

Absolutely. But given that 256kbps is considered only pretty good for stereo, it is hard to imagine how it would be sufficient for 6 channels.

Much depends on the audio format of course. Generating 6-channel audio files using HE-AAC is more efficient than using AAC-LC. As is generating Dolby Digital Plus compared to Dolby Digital... But agreed 256Kbps even with HE-AAC is low. Lower than I would go

 

[Methuselah’s Grandpa]

Interesting thread, ...if I were to try and do this, I would definitely be converting to HE-AAC though. 256kbps/6 channels = 42.67kbps/per channel, ...which is exactly what HE-AAC was made for. It should offer a better reproduction of the original audio. There might be a plug-in for foobar or dbPowerAmp that will let you use the HE-AAC format.

 

[chescowx]

Interesting thread, ...if I were to try and do this, I would definitely be converting to HE-AAC though. 256kbps/6 channels = 42.67kbps/per channel, ...which is exactly what HE-AAC was made for. It should offer a better reproduction of the original audio. There might be a plug-in for foobar or dbPowerAmp that will let you use the HE-AAC format.

Thanks for the great feedback - really enjoyed the discussion. I will give some of these other options a whirl!!!
Paul

 

[vidalquad23]

I have had very good success using PLEX and the 4K Apple TV for multichannel music playback. I open the PLEX app on the ApptTV, make sure it sees all my libraries, open my music folder containing my multi channel files, select and play. As long as the app is open on the Apple TV, music selection can also be controlled via the iOS PLEX app on an Apple device (e.g. iPad). The output to the receiver will be PCM multichannel. At least in 5.1. I have no other files greater or lower than that so I can’t verify if higher or lower (4 channel) than 5.1 will work. The main drawbacks are: 1, the TV screen and PLEX app on the Apple TV in my experience need to be left on/open; 2, the Apple TV sleep mode has to be set to ‘Never’; 3, no matter what the file format and frequency are the Apple TV will pass the files as 48khz multichannel PCM to my Marantz receiver (I am not sure of the bit rate, my receiver does not display that, I am guessing 48khz/16). The resultant sound quality is very good. I get consistent results with WAV, Flac, and DSD music files. I have not tried any other formats. Frequency wise, success is dependent on your local bandwidth. DSD files can stutter at times but not always. I have had success with 192khz/24 bit multichannel FLAC files. I have never tried 192khz WAV files.

 

[zeerround]

What is the bit depth and sample rate, of the files that "work"? 44.1Khz, 48KHz? 16 bit, 24 bit?

Do these also play in spatial audio on iphone with air pods, etc.?

 

[Cheezmo]

What is the bit depth and sample rate, of the files that "work"? 44.1Khz, 48KHz? 16 bit, 24 bit?

Do these also play in spatial audio on iphone with air pods, etc.?

I believe 16 or 24 bit and 48kHz, pretty much any 256kbps AAC file that will get uploaded. You'll know by looking in the Music app for the Cloud status. If it says "uploaded" it should work. It won't work if it happens to "match".

I have only tested on the AppleTV not on AirPods.

 

[HomerJAU]

I find this a bit weird that members are actively seeking to convert to lossy formats.

If Hires is no longer important, do we even need to buy a quality AVR or speakers worth more than $200 each? (Asking for a friend)