Rolling Stones Goats Head Soup Deluxe Edition (with 5.1 & Dolby Atmos mixes!)

[jefe1]

I can say this I am certainly not investing in an Atmos system for this album........But will the advertised separate 5.1 mix be much different than what the atmos stream converts to?

 

[~dave~~wave~]

I can say this I am certainly not investing in an Atmos system for this album........But will the advertised separate 5.1 mix be much different than what the atmos stream converts to?

The imprecisely advertised 5.1 mix is in fact the Atmos stream, just for the record.
Nobody here with Atmos has been interested in de-configuring their system down to 5.1 to listen that way and compare, to my knowledge.

But once again I must state that the Atmos standard specifies that it is compatible with any number of speakers, so the Atmos 5.1 output is equivalent to TrueHD 5.1.

Everyone with 5.1 who loved Kraftwerk 3-D three years ago heard that blu ray the same way.
Only Atmos supplied for surround, no separate 5.1 mix.
Not a single complaint that the mix was degraded in any way.

 

[~dave~~wave~]

The Brussells concert has decent sound no audible examples of distortion to me on my earbuds and they perform well.

I experience the same on speakers in 5.1 stereo.

Here's a look at the CD files of Tumbling Dice on Brussels Affair (overall CD DR "6" & the Red lines on the wave forms are Clipping)


View attachment 56364

The concert is certainly loud, compressed & peak-limited, but I don't hear clipping.
That's a rip you're displaying, right?

I see the right channel is worse than the left.
That seems to be the side the bass guitar and snare are panned to.
The clipping on the peaks may be from the high current of the low bass and the transients of the snare.

Some types of clipping and low DR are worse than others.
A Stones concert, played loud & made to be reproduced and listened to loud.
YMMV

 

[J. PUPSTER]

I experience the same on speakers in 5.1 stereo.




The concert is certainly loud, compressed & peak-limited, but I don't hear clipping.
That's a rip you're displaying, right?

I see the right channel is worse than the left.
That seems to be the side the bass guitar and snare are panned to.
The clipping on the peaks may be from the high current of the low bass and the transients of the snare.

Some types of clipping and low DR are worse than others.
A Stones concert, played loud & made to be reproduced and listened to loud.
YMMV

All good points, and you'll notice I didn't include any judgement calls on this; but did they absolutely, positively, have to Master it that way?

 

[EricKalet]

And if its like most class action settlements the award will be in the millions, and the payout will be like $1.50

Lawyers always get the lions share!

 

[EricKalet]

But once again I must state that the Atmos standard specifies that it is compatible with any number of speakers, so the Atmos 5.1 output is equivalent to TrueHD 5.1.

Doesn't this indicate that the 5.1 mix is indeed NOT the Atmos mix downmixed to 5.1 and certainly NOT TrueHD.

 

[LuvMyQuad]

I don't have this disc, but I have been following the thread. Aren't the only options for the sound format on the blueray menu the Atmos track and the stereo track? So when does the AC3 track ever get played?

 

[J. PUPSTER]

Doesn't this indicate that the 5.1 mix is indeed NOT the Atmos mix downmixed to 5.1 and certainly NOT TrueHD.

View attachment 56413

I'm not sure about that, take another look at my oppo 205 screen shot with 4.3Mbps audio rate; and from what Gary @HomerJAU tells me the TrueHD 7.1 has the Atmos contained in it, and I believe that's were the mix down is originating from. But still I don't like the fact that it may be a "wholesale-all standardized, just throw it in the other channels" type of thing!

https://www.quadraphonicquad.com/fo...1-dolby-atmos-mixes.28649/page-34#post-512534

 

[EricKalet]

I'm not sure about that, take another look at my oppo 205 screen shot with 4.3Mbps audio rate; and from what Gary @HomerJAU tells me the TrueHD 7.1 has the Atmos contained in it, and I believe that's were the mix down is originating from. But still I don't like the fact that it may be a "wholesale-all standardized, just throw it in the other channels" type of thing!

https://www.quadraphonicquad.com/fo...1-dolby-atmos-mixes.28649/page-34#post-512534

Hmmm, so you stated from the Oppo analog out...which Oppo do you have? Perhaps some players are able to output a downmixed 7.1 True HD to 5.1 True HD from the decoding chip inside the player.

 

[~dave~~wave~]

All good points, and you'll notice I didn't include any judgement calls on this; but did they absolutely, positively, have to Master it that way?

No, no excuse for mastering anything that way, least of all a Bob Clearmountain mix of a 1973 concert.

But every stereo mix on three CDs and blu ray looks like that, no?
So they mastered the peaks to -0.1 dB instead of -3 like I would prefer.
That's how kids today operate.
Not only that but they keep playing on my lawn. 🗯🗯🗯

 

[EricKalet]

I should try the blu ray in my old Sony blu ray. Hmmmmmmm see what it shows...

 

[J. PUPSTER]

Hmmm, so you stated from the Oppo analog out...which Oppo do you have? Perhaps some players are able to output a downmixed 7.1 True HD to 5.1 True HD from the decoding chip inside the player.

It's the 205 oppo.

 

[~dave~~wave~]

I don't have this disc, but I have been following the thread. Aren't the only options for the sound format on the blueray menu the Atmos track and the stereo track? So when does the AC3 track ever get played?

NEVER if you spin discs.

You will never hear it unless you are a ripper

 

[EricKalet]

It's the 205 oppo.

That's a BEAST machine and as I thought:

"Advanced Audio Formats
With internal decoding of Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD Master Audio..."

So, likely you are one of a few getting True HD from your 5.1 analog out. The chip is downmixing Atmos to 5.1.

 

[EricKalet]

I should try the blu ray in my old Sony blu ray. Hmmmmmmm see what it shows...

EPIC fail...lol...my soundbar is Atmos so I'm getting True HD.

 

[~dave~~wave~]

Doesn't this indicate that the 5.1 mix is indeed NOT the Atmos mix downmixed to 5.1 and certainly NOT TrueHD.

View attachment 56413

Not as it's extracted there.
That's ripper stuff.
That is not real when you spin discs.
What does Kraftwerk 3-D show when ripped?

This has been explained.
There is always a core Dolby AC-3.
But only the oldest farking antique blu ray player would ever try to output from that lossy file rather than use the Atmos, which it will sense as TrueHD 5.1.

All Dolby TrueHD-enabled Blu-ray Disc players are capable of decoding the Dolby TrueHD audiotrack to an arbitrary number of channels more suitable for player output. For example, all Dolby TrueHD-capable players can create a 2-channel (stereo-compatible) mix from a 6-channel source audiotrack.

The most popular Dolby TrueHD application is as a high definition audio codec for Blu-ray Disc, although early Blu-ray players did not support it. All current Blu-ray players support Dolby TrueHD decoding or bitstreaming. Starting in 2010, Dolby TrueHD steadily lost lossless audio market share to rival DTS-HD Master Audio.[2] Much of that share, however, returned as Dolby Atmos became more common on Blu-ray and Ultra HD Blu-ray; Atmos is commonly implemented on these discs through a TrueHD bitstream.[3]

Audio encoded using Dolby TrueHD may be transported to A/V receivers in one of three ways depending on player and/or receiver support:[4][5]

• Over 6 or 8 RCA connectors as analog audio, using the player's internal decoder and digital-to-analog converter (DAC).
• Over HDMI 1.1 (or higher) connections as 6 or 8-channel Linear PCM, using the player's decoder and the AV receiver's DAC.
• Over HDMI 1.3 (or higher) connections as the original Dolby TrueHD bitstream encapsulated in MAT[3] (Metadata-Enhanced Audio Transport) frames, with decoding and DAC both done by the AV receiver. Bitstreaming is required for full Dolby Atmos playback.[3]

 

[EricKalet]

More clarity here even tho its Wikipedia:

Since Dolby TrueHD is an optional codec, a companion Dolby Digital bitstream (2.0 192 Kb/s or 5.1 448 Kb/s/640 Kb/s) must accompany the Dolby TrueHD bitstream on Blu-ray discs. Blu-ray Disc players consider this combination of two audio bitstreams as a single logical audio track, and a Blu-ray Disc player will automatically select the Dolby Digital or Dolby TrueHD bitstream depending on its decoding and/or bitstreaming capabilities.

All Dolby TrueHD-enabled Blu-ray Disc players are capable of decoding the Dolby TrueHD audiotrack to an arbitrary number of channels more suitable for player output. For example, all Dolby TrueHD-capable players can create a 2-channel (stereo-compatible) mix from a 6-channel source audiotrack.

 

[~dave~~wave~]

EPIC fail...lol...my soundbar is Atmos so I'm getting True HD.

We're posting simultaneously.
My understanding of what you just posted above:

Your blu ray player is communicating to the 5.1 sound bar that it's sending TrueHD 5.1 from the Atmos file.

 

[EricKalet]

So that "compatible" AC3 640kbps mix will only be heard in older/vintage blu ray players.

 

[EricKalet]

We're posting simultaneously.
My understanding of what you just posted above:

Your blu ray player is communicating to the 5.1 sound bar that it's sending TrueHD 5.1 from the Atmos file.

Yep!