Rush - A Farewell to Kings 40th anniversary box set (Steven Wilson 5.1 mix included)

[rtbluray]

I just hope folks don't get discouraged before even purchasing, or hearing the Rush. I am super satisfied with it, as I think the fidelity, along with the surround mix sound excellent. I'm with Sean, I LOVE the drums softly rolling around the rears. Elegant IMO. In fact, I think I'll listen to it right now as I have a nice Amber Bock and all will be good.

If anything is going to discourage people from purchasing it, it's the price...

 

[GOS]

I've been trying to A/B the old BDA against this new Wilson mix and unless my ears are playing tricks with me, the Wilson mix has a slightly slower tempo than the older BDA. I thought I heard it initially, and then I found some key parts where vocals start and there is a 1.5 to 2 second difference in the tempo between the 2.

Not sure how that happens. But, to be honest...I thought the Wilson version sounded more natural, then when I switched to the older BDA, I thought...whoa. That's too fast. AGain, could be some mind tricks, but for sure, something is up there.

Not meant to be a complaint, just an observation.

 

[Frogmort]

I for one love this surround mix!

We got Alex with double-tracked guitars, one in the LF one in the RF and maybe a solo or acoustic guitar in the center or surrounds, or even moving around the room. And I really got excited when I heard Neil's toms going 360° around the entire room. I've never heard a drum track mixed quite this way and (being a drummer) I think it's great! The kick is nice and solid everywhere and the snare is front and center. Also, all of the percussion add-on effects and keyboards coming from everywhere is awesome. Geddy's bass is mostly anchored up front, but even that moves around occasionally.

Also, the bottom end is so much more defined and deep compared to most everything I've heard from Rush. They're one of my absolute favorite bands, but I never thought they had a very good track record when it came to overall sound quality. I did adjust the center channel up and down a bit at first, playing with the vocal level, but ended up putting it back to my proper setting. The vocals are a touch prominent in the mix, but I think a lot of that comes down to how naturally 'squirrely' Geddy's voice was back in the day, a rather love it/hate it kind of thing (I love it).

I was cautiously hoping for some real surround action on a Rush album for the first time, and I was bowled over by how active the surround mix is. I'm a goofy guy who loves the 'whiz-bang-pow' type of mixes. I really thought Steven might err on the side of caution and make a 'tastefully appropriate' mix, since this is just a three piece band, but instead he did the total opposite and really expanded and made the most of all the available sounds and made this a surround extravaganza.

I can appreciate where some of you guys are coming from, as this is a fairly adventurous, unorthodox, and wild mix, and may possibly stray a bit too much from the sensibilities of the original stereo mixes, but I was absolutely ecstatic when I heard how 'surroundy' this mix was, and actually started laughing with excitement and also shed a tiny happy tear when I first heard it.

 

[rtbluray]

I've been trying to A/B the old BDA against this new Wilson mix and unless my ears are playing tricks with me, the Wilson mix has a slightly slower tempo than the older BDA. I thought I heard it initially, and then I found some key parts where vocals start and there is a 1.5 to 2 second difference in the tempo between the 2.

Not sure how that happens. But, to be honest...I thought the Wilson version sounded more natural, then when I switched to the older BDA, I thought...whoa. That's too fast. AGain, could be some mind tricks, but for sure, something is up there.

Not meant to be a complaint, just an observation.

It's already been discussed about how the original stereo mix of "Xanadu" is a slightly different pitch (+40cents) when compared to the original multi-track recording. Instead of asking Steven Wilson to remix the song at the same (higher) pitch as the stereo mix, RUSH requested that the 5.1 surround mix remain at the original recording pitch, which is why the original stereo mix and the new 5.1 surround mix do not remain in sync with each other.
(The pitch difference makes the 5.1 surround mix about 17 seconds longer the original stereo mix.)

 

[GOS]

It's already been discussed about how the original stereo mix of "Xanadu" is a slightly different pitch (+40cents) when compared to the original multi-track recording. Instead of asking Steven Wilson to remix the song at the same (higher) pitch as the stereo mix, RUSH requested that the 5.1 surround mix remain at the original recording pitch, which is why the original stereo mix and the new 5.1 surround mix do not remain in sync with each other.
(The pitch difference makes the 5.1 surround mix about 17 seconds longer the original stereo mix.)

Oh man. OK. I didn't catch, or pay attention to those posts. So, I'm not crazy.....

Don't answer that please....

 

[dr. simple]

I've been trying to A/B the old BDA against this new Wilson mix and unless my ears are playing tricks with me, the Wilson mix has a slightly slower tempo than the older BDA. I thought I heard it initially, and then I found some key parts where vocals start and there is a 1.5 to 2 second difference in the tempo between the 2.

Not sure how that happens. But, to be honest...I thought the Wilson version sounded more natural, then when I switched to the older BDA, I thought...whoa. That's too fast. AGain, could be some mind tricks, but for sure, something is up there.

Not meant to be a complaint, just an observation.

This is the result of the change in pitch/speed (one in the same if you're to maintain the integrity of the original) mentioned on the back of the blu-ray sleeve and mentioned in post #365 in this thread. So, no - you're not imagining it!

 

[dr. simple]

Didn't notice that rtbluray was posting just a few minutes before I did - sorry!

 

[dr. simple]

This will be interesting going forward IF Steven Wilson does another Rush title...it might answer a question that most of have wanted to know for a long time...and it might yield a answer that won't be the one we all hoped for...what if Steven does another Rush title that had a previous surround mix and it is only marginally better than the previous mix...what are we left with then?...we are left with the realization that the mixes weren't really the problem and that the source material is...which means there really isn't anything that can remedy that problem..

I'm not really sure what you're saying here. For my money, Steven Wilson has definitely answered any question of surround mixer versus source material. I find his mix to be a DRAMATIC improvement over the original stereo, in an "Aqualung", "can this possibly be the same record" kind of way.

 

[rtbluray]

I'm not really sure what you're saying here. For my money, Steven Wilson has definitely answered any question of surround mixer versus source material. I find his mix to be a DRAMATIC improvement over the original stereo, in an "Aqualung", "can this possibly be the same record" kind of way.

I only think Steven Wilson's 5.1 surround mix of "Xanadu" is clearly better than the original stereo mix, mostly because I like hearing the song at its original recorded pitch.
Obviously I have a clear bias towards listening to music in surround sound (just like pretty much all of us on QQ) however, there's nothing wrong with the original stereo mix of "A Farewell to Kings", which is why I suppose both RUSH and Steven Wilson felt there was no need to include a new stereo mix amongst the 40th anniversary reissues.

Sometimes Steven Wilson's stereo remixes really do come out better than the original stereo mixes, and that's why they are released. (King Crimson and Gentle Giant mostly comes to mind, but the same goes for "Aqualung" and a few other albums in Jethro Tull's catalogue.)
Sometimes Steven Wilson's stereo remixes are released for contractual reasons. (Panegyric were not allowed to use the original stereo mixes on the Yes reissue CDs, so a new stereo mix was necessary, and I think the same goes for XTC as well.)

I wouldn't have minded at all if "A Farewell to Kings" came with a Steven Wilson stereo remix, but I also do not mind its exclusion either.

 

[jimfisheye]

I was wondering if he was going to keep Xanadu pitched up to F or not. Alright then. Looks like ImportCD is keeping me waiting here.

FYI all the Yes remaster bluray editions (the format I chose) have a flat transfer of the original stereo mix. I assumed the included CD was just to make the new mix kind of available for those with no surround and/or nu bluray player, but you know what happens when you assume.

Heh, I remember when I was learning how to play every Rush song on guitar in high school I was breaking high G strings on the 12-string tuning it up to play along with the album for Xanadu.

 

[Clint Eastwood]

I'm not really sure what you're saying here. For my money, Steven Wilson has definitely answered any question of surround mixer versus source material. I find his mix to be a DRAMATIC improvement over the original stereo, in an "Aqualung", "can this possibly be the same record" kind of way.

What I posted has nothing to do with Steven Wilson...he certainly has nothing to prove...it's about the actual quality of Rush recordings...the ongoing "fantasy" for most of us was having Steven Wilson "rescue" the Rush catalog from sonic mediocrity...much like I fantasize about someone saving the Led Zeppelin catalog from Jimmy Page's stranglehold...so what I'm commenting on is the state of the original Rush material...maybe even Steven can't improve it dramatically....like we have grown to expect from him...I'm not sure he will get another chance with the Rush catalog...I hope so...

 

[dr. simple]

What I posted has nothing to do with Steven Wilson...he certainly has nothing to prove...it's about the actual quality of Rush recordings...the ongoing "fantasy" for most of us was having Steven Wilson "rescue" the Rush catalog from sonic mediocrity...much like I fantasize about someone saving the Led Zeppelin catalog from Jimmy Page's stranglehold...so what I'm commenting on is the state of the original Rush material...maybe even Steven can't improve it dramatically....like we have grown to expect from him...I'm not sure he will get another chance with the Rush catalog...I hope so...

Fair enough, but as far as I'm concerned, he has improved it dramatically.

 

[rtbluray]

What I posted has nothing to do with Steven Wilson...he certainly has nothing to prove...it's about the actual quality of Rush recordings...the ongoing "fantasy" for most of us was having Steven Wilson "rescue" the Rush catalog from sonic mediocrity...much like I fantasize about someone saving the Led Zeppelin catalog from Jimmy Page's stranglehold...so what I'm commenting on is the state of the original Rush material...maybe even Steven can't improve it dramatically....like we have grown to expect from him...I'm not sure he will get another chance with the Rush catalog...I hope so...

Exactly. I've come to realize that Steven Wilson does the best he can with all of the remix projects he works on, but some shine brighter than others. Not every remix is gonna be a "Larks' Tongues in Aspic", "Tales From Topographic Oceans", or "Black Sea", but one trend I have noticed is that the more he works with a particular artist, the better the remixes get over time. I think those three albums I brought up are among the best remixes for King Crimson, Yes, and XTC, just like "Three Piece Suite" and "Songs from the Wood" are among the best remixes for Gentle Giant & Jethro Tull, so I feel very confident that if Steven Wilson continues to remix RUSH albums, hopefully each remix will be better than the last one!

 

[IMachine]

Exactly. I've come to realize that Steven Wilson does the best he can with all of the remix projects he works on, but some shine brighter than others. Not every remix is gonna be a "Larks' Tongues in Aspic", "Tales From Topographic Oceans", or "Black Sea", but one trend I have noticed is that the more he works with a particular artist, the better the remixes get over time. I think those three albums I brought up are among the best remixes for King Crimson, Yes, and XTC, just like "Three Piece Suite" and "Songs from the Wood" are among the best remixes for Gentle Giant & Jethro Tull, so I feel very confident that if Steven Wilson continues to remix RUSH albums, hopefully each remix will be better than the last one!

I have to disagree, that SW mixes get better the longer he works with an Artist over time.

Gentle Giant - The Power and the Glory is freaking fantastico.
XTC - Drums and Wires dito.
King Crimson - Discipline - yippppieeeeh!
Yes - The Yes Album - Wooooowieee!
Jethro Tull - Warchild - unbelievable!

 

[GOS]

For those that get sick of hearing about vinyl being included in these super-duper box sets...driving the prices up without reason.....on this set, I can agree so far. I dug out the vinyl, very heavy and nice. Extremely clean looking visibly. Run them through my vinyl cleaner, dusted them down. Cued them up......and....

CRACKLE, CRACKLE! WTF?? Really? If you are going to include vinyl, driving up prices for others who do not want them...at least make the vinyl a high quality pressing. Mine, at least, are not high quality. Fidelity of the vinyl is excellent, it's the out of box crackle that is horrible honestly. I have dozens of old vinyl that are much quieter than these brand new LP's.

Duh.....

 

[marpow]

For those that get sick of hearing about vinyl being included in these super-duper box sets...driving the prices up without reason.....on this set, I can agree so far. I dug out the vinyl, very heavy and nice. Extremely clean looking visibly. Run them through my vinyl cleaner, dusted them down. Cued them up......and....

CRACKLE, CRACKLE! WTF?? Really? If you are going to include vinyl, driving up prices for others who do not want them...at least make the vinyl a high quality pressing. Mine, at least, are not high quality. Fidelity of the vinyl is excellent, it's the out of box crackle that is horrible honestly. I have dozens of old vinyl that are much quieter than these brand new LP's.

Duh.....

That sucks, and is unacceptable.

 

[edisonbaggins]

Any commentary on the complete live show (the incomplete show was released with Different Stages) and the other bonus tracks?

 

[4-earredwonder]

For those that get sick of hearing about vinyl being included in these super-duper box sets...driving the prices up without reason.....on this set, I can agree so far. I dug out the vinyl, very heavy and nice. Extremely clean looking visibly. Run them through my vinyl cleaner, dusted them down. Cued them up......and....

CRACKLE, CRACKLE! WTF?? Really? If you are going to include vinyl, driving up prices for others who do not want them...at least make the vinyl a high quality pressing. Mine, at least, are not high quality. Fidelity of the vinyl is excellent, it's the out of box crackle that is horrible honestly. I have dozens of old vinyl that are much quieter than these brand new LP's.

Duh.....

Sorry to hear that, Gene. I know how much you love your vinyl.

But that's one of the reasons I invested SO much into my Digital front end. Not only does it benefit the surround music but also my vast investment in BD~V, BD~A and even FIOS TV. Everything sounds ULTRA SUPERB....even Dolby Digital!

It's ashame that you really have to invest big bucks in CUSTOM 180~200g pressings to really hear the benefits of vinyl [and it can sound SUPERB], but I've read a lot of NEGATIVE vinyl reviews pertaining to these rock/pop groups that do release non custom pressed vinyl are in reality not really giving their patrons quality products.

I would've LOVED to have a stand alone BD~A/V of Rush's A Farewell to Kings since I'm a marginal RUSH fan but simply cannot justify the expense.

 

[kap'n krunch]

For those that get sick of hearing about vinyl being included in these super-duper box sets...driving the prices up without reason.....on this set, I can agree so far. I dug out the vinyl, very heavy and nice. Extremely clean looking visibly. Run them through my vinyl cleaner, dusted them down. Cued them up......and....

CRACKLE, CRACKLE! WTF?? Really? If you are going to include vinyl, driving up prices for others who do not want them...at least make the vinyl a high quality pressing. Mine, at least, are not high quality. Fidelity of the vinyl is excellent, it's the out of box crackle that is horrible honestly. I have dozens of old vinyl that are much quieter than these brand new LP's.

Duh.....

Please do this..RETURN THE BOX AND TELL THEM IT'S UNACCEPTABLE AND YOU WANT ANOTHER COPY (make a *ehem* SAFETY c*py of the MCH mix , though)...
Can't believe this!!!

OTOH, I was *ehem* LISTENING to the Goldfrapp "Silvereye" clear vinyl and side A was INCREDIBLY SILENT!!!!...so , you never know nowadays!!!

 

[jimfisheye]

Vinyl quality is so hit or miss nowadays. That's unfortunate then. Agreed that a proper digital front end is so much more bang for the buck and all but still too bad to hear. This set looks so elegant that I might end up just keeping it even though I'm primarily after the bluray content. When it finally arrives at my house anyway! All I can do right now is read about other people listening to it!