Santana Lotus: Complete Edition in SACD Surround Sound and DSD 256 Stereo Download

[4-earredwonder]

This wikipedia posting doesn't shed much light on how many tracks were utilized in recording Santana's LIVE Lotus concert. Only that it was remixed into 4 channel for SQ Vinyl release.

Does anyone know how many tracks the Japanese engineers initially utilized to record this live event?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lotus_(Santana_album)

 

[JediJoker]

A question I've not yet seen asked: is the stereo track on the new SACD (and DSD download) SQ-encoded, or is it true 2-channel stereo?

 

[fizzywiggs41]

A question I've not yet seen asked: is the stereo track on the new SACD (and DSD download) SQ-encoded, or is it true 2-channel stereo?

Regardless what's indicated on those multi SACD'S, one should assume that it's a mixdown from the discrete 4.0 and the SQ matrix would be absent .

But , unless they truly intended to transfer down the SQ from the additional tape source , I would be surprised.

 

[fizzywiggs41]

maybe they created a really tame surround mix in the first instance and then relied upon the lacklustre SQ encoders and decoders of the time to flesh things out a bit..

Well they were not intending in 74 to release a discrete format for that Japanese edition , so it mattered not if they "sweetened" the Encode ,.easily done with those Encoders (not lackluster imho ), for those lacklustre "decoders " back then.

Given this was some huge public arena , the miking placement was obviously inadequate for a truly convincing quad demonstration . This is a rare example of "post production audio mixing" from Q4 . I believe it's a 73 Concert ?

 

[McCrutchy]

Okay, so DHL delivered my replacement copy from Amazon today (and they also took the original parcel away for return to Japan), and I've started listening now. It sounds pretty good, so far, the music is definitely in the front, with applause in the rear, but I'm happy with that, and pleased with the purchase.

I didn't really comprehend that this might be a bit on the eccentric/soft side for me, and I think I probably should have listened to the album before purchasing, but I was swept up in the thought of non-classical music being remastered and released in multi channel SACD. And hey, it's great to be able to enjoy high-resolution "popular" music in a physical format again, and the packaging is nice...I just wish there was some AC/DC or Iron Maiden in multi channel SACD, too.

 

[zimmy]

My first impression of this one is much more positive than i had expected.
I bought the AF SACD in which i couldn´t hear any improvement compared to the CD but i guess there is one if i listen more carefully.
But listening to this one is just fantastic!
As have been said the rears are mostly used for hearing the audience but it is not all.
Myself i like to have the music and specially the guitars mainly from the front speakers.
But i like the advantage to straight stereo that surround can bring by moving the sound into the room.

When listening to fake-surround versions of this one i have enjoyed it but here i can enjoy an much more balanced sound.
This is specially important with this record as the music in parts is quite demanding

The package in itself is just fantastic!
I wasn´t aware of that it would be in the bigger size like Jeff Becks Blow by blow.
The only thing that disturbs me is that i cannot find an tracklist for the discs. All i see is the tracklist for the original vinyl.

 

[bmoura]

My first impression of this one is much more positive than i had thought.
I bought the AF SACD which i couldn´t hear any improvement on compared to the CD even if i guess there is one if i listen more carefully.
But listening to this one is just fantastic!
As have been said the rears are mostly used for hearing the audience but it is not all.
Myself i like to have the music and specially the guitars mainly from the front speakers.
But i like the advantage to straight stereo that surround can bring by moving the sound into the room.

When listening to fake-surround versions of this one i have enjoyed it but here i can enjoy an much more balanced sound.
This is specially important with this record as the music in parts is quite demanding

The package in itself is just fantastic!
I wasn´t aware of that it would be in the bigger size like Jeff Becks Blow by blow.
The only thing that disturbs me is that i cannot find an tracklist for the discs. All i see is the tracklist for the original vinyl.

Be sure to submit your rating of Lotus Complete Edition on the Hi Rez Poll
https://www.quadraphonicquad.com/forums/showthread.php?23343-Santana-LOTUS-SACD-JAPAN

 

[par4ken]

I was just wondering if anyone has listened to this with the rear channel level boosted a bit? Sometimes even a 2 or 3 dB boost can make a big difference. I know that this flies in the face of the school of thought that you shouldn't even be aware that the rear speakers are active (until you shut them off) and that too much rear boost can and likely will sound downright unnatural.
I'm still toying with the idea of getting the Audio Fidelity version, it would be less than half the price, and used copies are available even cheaper than that, but reviews of that seem mixed as well.

 

[Simon A]

I was just wondering if anyone has listened to this with the rear channel level boosted a bit? Sometimes even a 2 or 3 dB boost can make a big difference. I know that this flies in the face of the school of thought that you shouldn't even be aware that the rear speakers are active (until you shut them off) and that too much rear boost can and likely will sound downright unnatural.
I'm still toying with the idea of getting the Audio Fidelity version, it would be less than half the price, and used copies are available even cheaper than that, but reviews of that seem mixed as well.

You make a valid point but if you look at the waveforms Jon posted some days ago, there is clearly no music there but mostly crowd ambience.

 

[bmoura]

I was just wondering if anyone has listened to this with the rear channel level boosted a bit? Sometimes even a 2 or 3 dB boost can make a big difference.

The Surround SACD edition of Lotus Complete Edition from Sony Japan sounds fine here with the rear channels left at regular levels.

As Jon's comments note, the big plus with the Surround SACD is you finally get to hear the Discrete 4 Channel mix of the concert vs. the 2 channel SQ encode.
His comment about less junk in the rear channels is a good way of helping to illustrate the difference.

Even with the Surround Master + the Audio Fidelity SACD edition, the Sony Japan Surround SACD runs rings around the SQ encoded edition of the concert here. No contest.
Not to mention the additional music on the Sony Japan Surround SACD.

 

[marpow]

I was just wondering if anyone has listened to this with the rear channel level boosted a bit? Sometimes even a 2 or 3 dB boost can make a big difference. I know that this flies in the face of the school of thought that you shouldn't even be aware that the rear speakers are active (until you shut them off) and that too much rear boost can and likely will sound downright unnatural.
I'm still toying with the idea of getting the Audio Fidelity version, it would be less than half the price, and used copies are available even cheaper than that, but reviews of that seem mixed as well.

If you are going to buy this, don't buy the AF. Please buy the new Japanese release, even though you will be dissapointed in the lack of discrete, or maybe a better word "Full" surround sound.

 

[himey]

Sony Japan are under no obligation to release any more Santana Quadraphonic mixes on Multichannel SACD, and if they do, they are certainly in no obligation to go in chronological order. (After all, the Jeff Beck Japanese Multichannel SACDs certainly were not released in chronological order.)

Now, let's get back to discussing "Lotus", shall we?

Too bad the rears have no discussion material Where's the video for this?

 

[GOS]

Just received a shipping notice from ImportCD on this title.

 

[marpow]

This is how your supposed to play with Lotus.

 

[par4ken]

Well I finally bit the bullet on this and ordered it from CDJapan. The exchange rate must of been a little better than the last time I checked as it was a couple dollars cheaper. I also had points that were about to expire. I think that it's important to support surround releases such as this, so maybe we will get more. I'll report my thoughts on this release after I receive it in the poll thread, it will be interesting to hear how it's supposed to sound, although I don't think that a bit of added junk in the rears of the decoded version is necessarily a bad thing.

 

[Dynamic Editor]

I noticed that the end of Disc 1 (Yours Is the Light) fades out the same audio that the start of Disc 2 (Batuka) fades in. I was able to make it so it plays seamlessly instead by finding the place where they're playing the same audio at the same loudness.
First, I moved Batuka so it plays the same audio at the same time as Yours Is the Light. That was by moving Batuka later by 14,440,926 samples (at 44.1kHz).

Then, at 14,509,597 samples, I spliced the remaining end off of Yours Is the Light and the remaining beginning of Batuka. (See below)

Delete said spliced audio, and viola! A seamless transition between the two discs.