Sly & the Family Stone Greatest Hits - 4.0 Audio Fidelity Multichannel SACD (October 2015)

[jefe1]

I'm waiting for mine to ship also (from importcds) and oh joy another defective disc being sent out there. I am already stuck with a defective Thick as a Brick DVD.
I like listening to mono too and this will be disappointing, depending how noticeable it is. Pretty classless to knowingly ship a defective product and not try to make it right to the small group of people that are paying these prices and supporting your company.

 

[DuncanS]

I don't think I've listened to the stereo of any 4.0 or 5.1 disc I've got, apart from when someone has said its defective then I have to give it a listen! So it looks like I'll be doing that when my Sly SACD turns up.

 

[atrocity]

It's been my experience that FLACs that are 2.0 Mono are basically the same size as a 1.0 FLAC file - I assume the compression algorithm can detect the fact the the content between the two channels is identical and compresses accordingly.

Yes. It's one HUGE advantage that FLAC has over Apple Lossless. Last time I compared the two, it looked like ALAC didn't try at all to take advantage of the data shared across the channels.

 

[Clint Eastwood]

I don't listen to the opposite side of any multichannel disc...had no plans on listening to the mono version...

 

[quicksrt]

Wow. This is a drag to read as I await my copy. Particularly since it is now the third title in the campaign to suffer balance issues. Blood, Sweat & Tears stereo SACD layer - center info leans to the left and on the Loggins and Messina disc it leans right! CD layers are fine on both.

When did news on the Loggins and Messina disc surface? While I will never listen to it in anything other than 4.0, it's still distressing to read this.

Looks like someone or someplace doing the authoring is about to lose or has lost a client.

 

[quicksrt]

I'm waiting for mine to ship also (from importcds) and oh joy another defective disc being sent out there. I am already stuck with a defective Thick as a Brick DVD.
I like listening to mono too and this will be disappointing, depending how noticeable it is. Pretty classless to knowingly ship a defective product and not try to make it right to the small group of people that are paying these prices and supporting your company.

They most likely did not notice it, I don't think that they sent it out and prayed nobody would hear this. Maybe the test pressings were fine, and it happened later. We don't know for sure.

Maybe they sent out discs and then heard about it, and I guess they could have asked for returned product, a recall. But it would be a nightmare.

I'd bet that they will be all over this in the future.

 

[blue.monk]

When did news on the Loggins and Messina disc surface?

I don't know if it had been previously reported. I noticed it upon my first listen. Like the BS&T disc it is a fairly significant shift. Maybe not that noticeable or bothersome on speakers but pretty annoying on headphones. The shifts are very easy to hear when switching between CD and SACD layers.

 

[bmoura]

I have to say I'm not impressed that AF is shipping these discs out knowing for a fact that there's a pretty major (by audiophile standards) defect in the audio.

The problem on the Sly & The Family Stone Greatest Hits SACD has brought to their attention and now that they are aware of it, Audio Fidelity is working on a corrected copy.

 

[Clint Eastwood]

Ugh...the worst part of this for me is this will trigger a chain reaction of complaints...people who didn't even care about the other side of the surround mix will suddenly be outraged and demand justice!...a public hanging won't be enough...even though AF is aware of the problem and is working on a remedy it won't stop the whining that will ensue...I can just hear it now....how there is no quality control...didn't they listen to the finished product...Alex nails it right here

[video=youtube;2i2ZbJnkFEY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2i2ZbJnkFEY[/video]

 

[bmoura]

When did news on the Loggins and Messina disc surface? While I will never listen to it in anything other than 4.0, it's still distressing to read this.
Looks like someone or someplace doing the authoring is about to lose or has lost a client.

Or it could be that the original Stereo tapes of Loggins and Messina and Blood, Sweat and Tears are mixed that way.

When the Multichannel SACDs are made, there are two different sets of tapes that are transferred and remastered at two different locations by two different engineers in most cases.
So there are a number of variables involved here. Going back to the original Stereo and 4 Channel mixes and transfers, long before Audio Fidelity and the engineers they hire get into the process.

Recently there was a brand new audiophile recording - not a reissue - where a listener complained that the recording was not correctly centered.
The record company - not connected with Audio Fidelity - invited the listener to attend a future recording session by another artist to see how their recordings are made.

The conclusion of those in the audience was that the mix sounded centered to them with one exception.
The listener in question wasn't so sure. But he did enjoy the live performance and the recording.

I found the event interesting - and the Stereo mix sounded fine to me.

 

[quicksrt]

Or it could be that the original Stereo tapes of Loggins and Messina and Blood, Sweat and Tears are mixed that way.

When the Multichannel SACDs are made, there are two different sets of tapes that are transferred and remastered at two different locations by two different engineers in most cases.
So there are a number of variables involved here. Going back to the original Stereo and 4 Channel mixes and transfers, long before Audio Fidelity and the engineers they hire get into the process.

Recently there was a brand new audiophile recording - not a reissue - where a listener complained that the recording was not correctly centered.
The record company - not connected with Audio Fidelity - invited the listener to attend a future recording session by another artist to see how their recordings are made.

The conclusion of those in the audience was that the mix sounded centered to them with one exception.
The listener in question wasn't so sure. But he did enjoy the live performance and the recording.

I found the event interesting - and the Stereo mix sounded fine to me.

Yes, all that makes sense. But this is a case where a stereo master tape (same used on CD and SACD layers of a given disc) are not playing back the same way on each of those layers. Same tape, same mastering engineer (for stereo tape), but different playback results. Not a lot a variables there really.

 

[quicksrt]

maybe AF should stick with 4.0 & 5.1 "surround only" SACDs from now on? Quadios, and DVD-As might be the solution?

 

[quicksrt]

Ugh...the worst part of this for me is this will trigger a chain reaction of complaints...people who didn't even care about the other side of the surround mix will suddenly be outraged and demand justice!...a public hanging won't be enough...even though AF is aware of the problem and is working on a remedy it won't stop the whining that will ensue...I can just hear it now....how there is no quality control

That is why "how" a problem is dealt with publicly is so important, and not just that it eventually gets fixed.

 

[rtbluray]

maybe AF should stick with 4.0 & 5.1 "surround only" SACDs from now on? Quadios, and DVD-As might be the solution?

I wasn't going to jump into this discussion, but that's just too ridiculous of a suggestion.
Brian has said time and time again on here that SACDs are Audio Fidelity's main form of business and that the main crowd that they cater to are those who want well-mastered Stereo SACDs. Now, they try to cater to that crowd and surround sound fans by releasing titles that will benefit both groups of listeners.
None of us would like it on here if there were issues with the surround mix on the Multichannel layer leading some (on other sites and forums) to suggest that it may be best to drop the surround mixes altogether, would we?

 

[blue.monk]

Or it could be that the original Stereo tapes of Loggins and Messina and Blood, Sweat and Tears are mixed that way..

Yes Brian but if so, besides being a very peculiar mixing choice, that still wouldn't explain the balance discrepancy between stereo SACD and CD layers (not to mention the same discrepancies between stereo SACD and previous stereo versions). These are flaws. I appreciate that many (if not most) here are only interested in the surround presentation but for those of us who also enjoy the original classic and iconic mixes it's become a bit of a worrisome trend.

 

[The Rang]

It can be fairly cheap to send out replacement discs (no cases or art) to all subscribers who got the Sly SACD. No return requested.

Then have retail buyers send in their "disc only" for a replacement. It's not too hard to do and not having a jewel case or artwork to deal with saves a lot of time and labor as well as postage/shipping costs.

That's what I expect they'll do.
That was the process with the corrected Doors and Lynyrd Skynyrd discs way back when.
Though IIRC they came in blank jewel boxes, no slipcase or artwork.
Works for me

 

[ar surround]

I believe that what is called the mono SACD layer is actually DUOPHONIC. I get all sorts of musical output from the surrounds and rears using PLIIx which should not happen with a pure mono source.

 

[skherbeck]

Ugh...the worst part of this for me is this will trigger a chain reaction of complaints...people who didn't even care about the other side of the surround mix will suddenly be outraged and demand justice!...a public hanging won't be enough...even though AF is aware of the problem and is working on a remedy it won't stop the whining that will ensue...I can just hear it now....how there is no quality control...didn't they listen to the finished product...Alex nails it right here

It's so odd... On one hand, people are complaining that the mono mix is off center, while on the other hand people are begging for surround-only releases of all the rare quad recordings!@:

(By the way, you only need one speaker to hear a mono recording!)

 

[GOS]

:violin

 

[GOS]

I love the Quad mix....just so excellent...you just wait Clint...you will be blown away!!