SQ Decoding with Adobe Audition for New Converters - Start Here

[TheTooleMan]

The other problem is that, currently, only Adobe Audition has the center channel extractor filter necessary to decode SQ and QS recordings.

J. D.

Hmm... I didn't realize that SQ has a center channel. Or is Audition "creating" one from the front channels?

 

[Lucanu]

No, it's a function called "Center Channel Exctractor" which is present on Adobe Audition starting from version 1.5
It is capable of extracting or cancel a signal present in a relationship between phase/panpot and other parameters. It's used to emulate a logic cancel feature present in more advanced hardware decoders as a Tate.

 

[TheTooleMan]

I'm running the 96 kHz script now. There have been numerous progress bars and steps that have completed. The captions on them started out saying different things, but after the first few times the captions have all said, "Removing Center Channel." Does removing the center channel really take that long, or am I stuck in an endless loop? And, by the way, WHAT CENTER CHANNEL?

Also, would it be possible to get a blow-by-blow description of the steps of this process, as executed by the script? I browsed the script files, and don't see much that I can comprehend. ;-)

 

[jdmack]

I'm running the 96 kHz script now. There have been numerous progress bars and steps that have completed. The captions on them started out saying different things, but after the first few times the captions have all said, "Removing Center Channel." Does removing the center channel really take that long, or am I stuck in an endless loop? And, by the way, WHAT CENTER CHANNEL?

Unfortunately, the scripts take hours to run when decoding an entire album. I'll often start decoding an album when I go to bed so that it's ready when I wake up. And the SQ script takes significantly longer than the QS script.

The "center channel" that is being removed is the audio material that is mixed center in the stereo field. The filter removes that, but leaves the left and right channels of audio intact (as opposed to the Karaoke effect, which removes the center channel but collapses the audio file to mono). Someone else here can better explain why this is necessary.

J. D.

 

[TheTooleMan]

Unfortunately, the scripts take hours to run when decoding an entire album. I'll often start decoding an album when I go to bed so that it's ready when I wake up. And the SQ script takes significantly longer than the QS script.

The "center channel" that is being removed is the audio material that is mixed center in the stereo field. The filter removes that, but leaves the left and right channels of audio intact (as opposed to the Karaoke effect, which removes the center channel but collapses the audio file to mono). Someone else here can better explain why this is necessary.

J. D.

But must it remove the center material over and over again?

To follow up, I finally decided to cancel the umpteenth iteration of "Removing Center Channel." The next process started - same thing. Canceling it gave progress bar with a new caption: "Amplifying Selection." Then I got the message, "You finished the script." So, did I blow it, with only a couple of passes left to go, or was I really stuck in a loop?

 

[Old Quad Guy]

But must it remove the center material over and over again?

To follow up, I finally decided to cancel the umpteenth iteration of "Removing Center Channel." The next process started - same thing. Canceling it gave progress bar with a new caption: "Amplifying Selection." Then I got the message, "You finished the script." So, did I blow it, with only a couple of passes left to go, or was I really stuck in a loop?

Yes, it does go through the center material over again about 3x each file with SQ and yes you stopped that attempt, but no worries… Happens to us all. Do not save anything. Close all files (without saving anything) and import the original saved files meant for decoding again and run the script. And wait and don’t worry about it until the script is done.

All you’ve done by hitting cancel is fast forward the procedures, but the script wasn’t allowed to finish what it was doing.

To learn more about the scripts go to "PC Based SQ DECODING - ALMOST DONE!' thread:

https://www.quadraphonicquad.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4633&highlight=adobe

 

[TheTooleMan]

Yes, it does go through the center material over again about 3x each file with SQ and yes you stopped that attempt, but no worries… Happens to us all. Do not save anything. Close all files (without saving anything) and import the original saved files meant for decoding again and run the script. And wait and don’t worry about it until the script is done.

All you’ve done by hitting cancel is fast forward the procedures, but the script wasn’t allowed to finish what it was doing.

To learn more about the scripts go to "PC Based SQ DECODING - ALMOST DONE!' thread:

https://www.quadraphonicquad.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4633&highlight=adobe

Thanks, I'm too impatient to hear the results. I let it run while I watched TV and slept, and now I'm ready to proceed.
:banana:
By the way, this paragraph of the instructions seems to have a problem:

After the script is complete, you'll need to put front.wav and rear.wav onto separate tracks (Tracks 1 and 2). Switch to "Multitrack View" and click on front.wav - then click on the "Insert Into Multitrack" button. Repeat this step for the rear.wav file and you should have both files onto separate tracks. The front.wav track should be in "Track 1" and the rear.wav should be in "Track 2."

I don't think you want to switch to multitrack view before clicking on front.wav.

Also, may I suggest using a spell checker on the instructions (no offense intended).

 

[jdmack]

By the way, this paragraph of the instructions seems to have a problem:

After the script is complete, you'll need to put front.wav and rear.wav onto separate tracks (Tracks 1 and 2). Switch to "Multitrack View" and click on front.wav - then click on the "Insert Into Multitrack" button. Repeat this step for the rear.wav file and you should have both files onto separate tracks. The front.wav track should be in "Track 1" and the rear.wav should be in "Track 2."

I don't think you want to switch to multitrack view before clicking on front.wav.

I think what it's supposed to say is: switch to multitrack view, click on "Insert" at the top, choose "front.wav. Click on "Insert" again and choose "rear.wav." This should put front and rear .wavs into tracks 1 and 2 (this would be for AA 1.5).

J. D.

 

[TheTooleMan]

I think what it's supposed to say is: switch to multitrack view, click on "Insert" at the top, choose "front.wav. Click on "Insert" again and choose "rear.wav." This should put front and rear .wavs into tracks 1 and 2 (this would be for AA 1.5).

J. D.

Could be, but what I found was clicking the waves in edit view, then right clicking, showed me an option to insert into multitrack. I did that first with the left, then the right. After that, I went to multitrack view to continue.

 

[Old Quad Guy]

Thanks, I'm too impatient to hear the results. I let it run while I watched TV and slept, and now I'm ready to proceed.
:banana:
By the way, this paragraph of the instructions seems to have a problem:

After the script is complete, you'll need to put front.wav and rear.wav onto separate tracks (Tracks 1 and 2). Switch to "Multitrack View" and click on front.wav - then click on the "Insert Into Multitrack" button. Repeat this step for the rear.wav file and you should have both files onto separate tracks. The front.wav track should be in "Track 1" and the rear.wav should be in "Track 2."

I don't think you want to switch to multitrack view before clicking on front.wav.

Also, may I suggest using a spell checker on the instructions (no offense intended).

I switch to multi-track view before I click on front.wav so I can see that front.wav and rear.wav are actually going into tracks 1 and 2 properly. But if one finds another way to do the same thing, that’s fine as well.

In this set of instructions, I'm explaining what needs to be done, then how to do them (yes, that's cool you can right click as well). BTW, I did use a spell checker many times (no offense taken at all). Any suggestions or comments are always welcome as they help make the instructions clearer. Thanks. We're here to help.

Decoding is easy once you’ve done it a few times, but hard at first because of all the many steps one must go through and on top of that, one must learn Adobe Audition. I’m still learning it. There should be some sort of “Quad medal of honor” for anyone who goes through the process of creating a Disc from a Quad record because of all the work involved (whether it’s done by script or vintage machines). Also, you are helping to preserve Quadraphonic records by playing the discs you create and not the records. I always put the Stereo SQ audio files on the disc as well (or on a separate disc if they won't fit due to length of recording) so the music can be played through one’s vintage Quad amp or as Stereo.

 

[TheTooleMan]

To learn more about the scripts go to "PC Based SQ DECODING - ALMOST DONE!' thread:

https://www.quadraphonicquad.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4633&highlight=adobe

I took a look at that thread and didn't get a lot out of it. But this chart was referenced a couple of times in the thread, and I think I could make a lot of progress toward understanding the decoding process if someone could explain it to me. It comes from Wendy Carlos's web:

In particular, I'm not familiar with the syntax of the lines. If you look to the right of A' there are a couple of lines which intersect at 90 degrees. Is the first one saying to mix B at .707 with A at .5, with A, 90 degrees out of phase?

Any chance of a narrative of the mixes of each channel would be a big help.

Thanks!

 

[Old Quad Guy]

I have no idea what much of that means, I'm still leaning myself. Perhaps someone with more knowledge can explain it.

 

[Lucanu]

That old thread Old Quad Guy linked has a lot of info on how encoding/decoding process work and how we could emulate it with logic enhancement. I know it's a very long one, but it's very interesting.
I don't really know where you can get a more in-depth explanation in the 'net

 

[TheTooleMan]

Yes, it does go through the center material over again about 3x each file with SQ...

Is it doing the same process each time, center channel removal, using the same parameters?

I spent a while looking at Wendy Carlos's diagrams and read her notes more thoroughly. Looks like the right-hand side of the diagram is a circuit diagram for a decoder, and seems to represent the same process as the simpler-looking diagrams on the left. Both result in A', B', etc., which are the decoded equivalents of A, B, etc. The decoding steps for each channel look like they can be done once each.

Are the extra steps in the script process intended to improve the channel separation by removing more material that would appear on more than one track? Wendy's web pages talk about additional decoding steps, Psi-Networks, etc.

The GOOD news is that the script does work for me! I used it on an SQ-encoded radio program and heard a fair amount of separation in playback. Still, part of me wants to really understand the process, not just run a script and say "I did it!" @:

Thanks to everyone who participated it bringing it to this point.

 

[Lucanu]

I don't really know if this step works on AA2.0 scripts, but you can try it:
when opening a script select "pause at dialogs" tag, so you will be able to see what these scripts are doing.
You just have to press ok to every operation the script does.

 

[TheTooleMan]

I don't really know if this step works on AA2.0 scripts, but you can try it:
when opening a script select "pause at dialogs" tag, so you will be able to see what these scripts are doing.
You just have to press ok to every operation the script does.

Thanks for the tip. I'll look for that option.

 

[ndiamone]

Upon recommendation from several (younger and presumably thinner) quad guys, I put down my coffee and donuts and picked up Adobe Audition.

It's pretty good, and pretty easy to use even for a analog guy's brain trying to live in the digital domain. I still always record in the highest definition available (in my case 32/192) and save the unprocessed file.

Any programmers writing Adobe Audition 3.0 scripts for QS and SQ yet?
The 1.5 and 2.0 scripts work partially, with the appropriate patches and other tweaks described earlier in this thread give an alright separation, but it would be nice to have a type of one-button click for each one of QS and SQ. Of course if anybody wants to program all the other matrices decoding principles, that would be good too in case there's some purists around.

Not printing anything out yet til I find out what flavor of discrete surround sound is being adopted by Blu-Ray.

Still figuring out Vuze (formerly Azareus Torrent) for seeding/receiving torrents that I havve already decoded.

I feel like the parent in the 60's who has discovered their child is learning New Math:

Hooray for new math,
New-hoo-hoo-math,
It won't do you a bit of good to review math.
It's so simple,
So very simple,
That only a child can do it!

(C) 1959 Tom Lehrer)

 

[TheTooleMan]

I prefer Sony Vegas to Audition, but I've been using Vegas for years and have only looked at Audition 1.5, so perhaps it's not a totally fair comparison. Vegas runs more smoothly, and I'm talking about on my new quad processor machine. I find Vegas's controls more intuitive, and the help is written very well. The only thing Vegas doesn't do that Audition does (so far, that I've found) is the 90 degree phase alterations that go into the decoding script. But there's a free VST plug-in that will do the phase work in Vegas.

I used the Audition scripts to decode the SQ files, but Vegas is fine for the mixdown and has an AC-3 plug-in that will produce Dolby Digital 5.1 output.

 

[Old Quad Guy]

I prefer Sony Vegas to Audition, but I've been using Vegas for years and have only looked at Audition 1.5, so perhaps it's not a totally fair comparison. Vegas runs more smoothly, and I'm talking about on my new quad processor machine. I find Vegas's controls more intuitive, and the help is written very well. The only thing Vegas doesn't do that Audition does (so far, that I've found) is the 90 degree phase alterations that go into the decoding script. But there's a free VST plug-in that will do the phase work in Vegas.

I used the Audition scripts to decode the SQ files, but Vegas is fine for the mixdown and has an AC-3 plug-in that will produce Dolby Digital 5.1 output.

Hi, many people use another program that they're more comfortable with to record the record and then import the files in Adobe Audition. If you can get Vegas to do what the Adobe Audition scripts do, please let us know and post.

I also create DVD-Audio discs with a DVD-Video layer that contains a Dolby Digital output. But keep in mind Dolby Digital is not the greatest sounding source for music because of all the compression that’s done to the sound by DD. I'm hoping to save for better tools where I can add DTS 24 bit / 96 kHz to the DVD-V layer instead.

 

[JonUrban]

Upon recommendation from several (younger and presumably thinner) quad guys, I put down my coffee and donuts and picked up Adobe Audition........

Any programmers writing Adobe Audition 3.0 scripts for QS and SQ yet?.......

https://www.quadraphonicquad.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9553