Suggestions for Dutton Vocalion Multichannel SACD Releases

[steelydave]

That's the logical assumption, Brian.

IMO, Michael Dutton's SACD QUAD choices have been anything but logical. Some extremely interesting choices and far from run of the mill.

Methinks the best is yet to come! :bounce17 Not that we don't have any more Faith in Percy.......

I wish I could like this post more than once.

I'm not sure why certain people seemingly want to pre-emptively pigeonhole the label, because to me the empirical evidence of the last year says that their quad reissue program has only increased in scope. Not only did D-V release some really challenging jazz-fusion (Musicmagic, Illuminations) they also released country-rock (PPL), soul (Cecil Holmes, Jimmy Castor) and jazz-funk (Deodato, which is the first CTI quad to ever see discrete digital reissue). It's also worth highlighting that back in June when they released the Ray Davies/Paul Mauriat/Swingle Singers discs, they became the first reissue label in the world to license ANY non-classical quads from UMG. Not to mention that top of that, in 2017 they've released in the neighbourhood of 15 more LPs worth of easy listening material, and over 20 LPs of classical material - it is possible to service your existing customer base and grow it at the same time, and that's what they've done. QQ members (and anyone who's bought discs from D-V for their quad content) represent their customer base just as much as anyone else does now, so a request for more Mauriat on facebook carries no more (or less) weight than someone on here requesting something else from the other end of the musical spectrum because it came out in quad.

Between them, Vocalion and Epoch have released an absolute wealth of quad over the last year, and the only guarantee about each succeeding batch is that it's going to be radically different from the one before it. If you're going to try and judge the label as having a direction, do it on a year-to-year basis, not a release-to-release one. This time last year we had Tower of Power, Main Ingredient, and a dozen easy listening releases in total, and look at where we are a year later. Makes you a bit excited at the prospect of what might be coming in January 2018 and beyond, doesn't it?

 

[quicksrt]

There is gold and platinum A-List Rock evergreens sitting there available for SACD reissue. The only thing is D-V wish to balance out their catalog with the stuff that worked so well for them previously. My personal feeling is that AF were too concerned with what MFSL had issued in the last 12 to 14 years, and could have grabbed a few TKOs that they considered used goods.

As an example, Edgar Winter Group's TOCOAN is afaik available as is Shock Treatment. Audio Fidelity was adverse to reissuing the Frankenstein album due to MFSL having had it out 12 years ago or more. In my opinion 10 years is nearly a generation ago with new collectors lining up to buy the classics. I'd hope that the cover does not get in the way on that one. The BOC's T & M seems so logical being that Secret Treaties was out, AF did a large pressing run of it, and it must have done ok and even very well. Or D-V could show no fear (throw caution to the wind) and do Caravanseria in quad, and really take us on that magic carpet ride.

Or we could get a double Waylon classic RCA peak in quad, That would satisfy me for a quarter of a year.

So much potential here - as collectors like to collect, and there still is that 2,000 to 6,000 crowd of die-hards.

 

[sjcorne]

Edgar Winter Group's TOCOAN is afaik available as is Shock Treatment.

I would literally faint if they did that as a two-fer. TOCOAN is one of the best Columbia quads IMO. I'm 100% behind any Columbia rock quad releases...they are all brilliant.

D-V could show no fear (throw caution to the wind) and do Caravanseria in quad, and really take us on that magic carpet ride.

I'd say they already threw caution to the wind when they did Musicmagic and Illuminations. Both of those are just as challenging, if not more so, than Caravanserai.

 

[4-earredwonder]

I wish I could like this post more than once.

I'm not sure why certain people seemingly want to pre-emptively pigeonhole the label, because to me the empirical evidence of the last year says that their quad reissue program has only increased in scope. Not only did D-V release some really challenging jazz-fusion (Musicmagic, Illuminations) they also released country-rock (PPL), soul (Cecil Holmes, Jimmy Castor) and jazz-funk (Deodato, which is the first CTI quad to ever see discrete digital reissue). It's also worth highlighting that back in June when they released the Ray Davies/Paul Mauriat/Swingle Singers discs, they became the first reissue label in the world to license ANY non-classical quads from UMG. Not to mention that top of that, in 2017 they've released in the neighbourhood of 15 more LPs worth of easy listening material, and over 20 LPs of classical material - it is possible to service your existing customer base and grow it at the same time, and that's what they've done. QQ members (and anyone who's bought discs from D-V for their quad content) represent their customer base just as much as anyone else does now, so a request for more Mauriat on facebook carries no more (or less) weight than someone on here requesting something else from the other end of the musical spectrum because it came out in quad.

Between them, Vocalion and Epoch have released an absolute wealth of quad over the last year, and the only guarantee about each succeeding batch is that it's going to be radically different from the one before it. If you're going to try and judge the label as having a direction, do it on a year-to-year basis, not a release-to-release one. This time last year we had Tower of Power, Main Ingredient, and a dozen easy listening releases in total, and look at where we are a year later. Makes you a bit excited at the prospect of what might be coming in January 2018 and beyond, doesn't it?

Dave, I really don't understand the first line of your post.

I have purchased EVERY QUAD SACD D~V has released over the past few years [including some against my better judgment] and have extensively heralded their efforts on numerous occasions.

And as I've stated over the years regarding ANY reissues done by MoFi, AF, AP and D~V: I'm sure the release, in question, has to appeal to the individuals behind these decisions....and to an extent....the availability factor [artist approval, condition of the masters, etc].

Of ALL the QUAD reissue companies, D~V is in a class by itself as it continually offers the QUAD aficionado some outstanding releases at prices heretofore unprecedented in modern memory. I've also called attention to their fantastic Classical QUAD RCA/SONY releases which also include two~fers, akin to the early RCA Living Stereo SACDs which always included bonus material on their releases.....only in two/three channel and not true QUAD.

Which is why I did state in my post that I think the best is yet to come as Michael Dutton, who is privy to sales figures we are NOT commanders decisions for future QUAD releases based on what sells and what does not.

I realize it is NOT our place to determine what D~V releases but as you've been an active member of QQ for some time, you of all people are fully aware what drives QQ: that 'lust' [an apt word] for Rock 'n Roll, 70's pop, heavy metal [certainly not D~V's cup 'o tea] and more variety outside the realm of easy listening.

Whether Michael Dutton takes this 'plunge' and/or whether SONY is willing to allow D~V access to more A list fare is another matter altogether. Who knows, it may attract a new base of customers D~V never quite experienced before.

 

[steelydave]

Dave, I really don't understand the first line of your post.

I have purchased EVERY QUAD SACD D~V has released over the past few years [including some against my better judgment] and have extensively heralded their efforts on numerous occasions.

When I said I wished I could like your post more than once, what I meant was that I agreed with it so wholeheartedly that I wanted to be able to click the 'like' button below it more than once, because it deserved it.

I also apologise completely for not being clear enough in my post, and that you thought I was directing any of what I said at you. It was just a general rant at some of what I've read in this thread, and elsewhere here and on other forums. Customers like you who are both loyal and open-minded are the lifeblood of a company like Vocalion - that's what I was trying to get at in my original post, people like you are just as an important part of D-V's customer-base now as their older clientele who want other (non-quad) things.

I said this about a year ago on this thread, but D-V are well aware of what QQ and other quad enthusiasts are interested in, and they want to give us what we want as much as we want to buy it. I know the wait can feel excruciating at times, but there's no hardline dogma at work where the label is saying no thanks to licensing the things you want, just so they can put out the things you don't want - to be that willfully ignorant would be commercial suicide. When you look at all the ways a reissue can go wrong, from price, to content, to sound quality, to even cancellation (and I think we've had examples of all of those this year) I think it's a minor miracle that a small label like D-V have been able to do what they've done.

 

[4-earredwonder]

When I said I wished I could like your post more than once, what I meant was that I agreed with it so wholeheartedly that I wanted to be able to click the 'like' button below it more than once, because it deserved it.

I also apologise completely for not being clear enough in my post, and that you thought I was directing any of what I said at you. It was just a general rant at some of what I've read in this thread, and elsewhere here and on other forums. Customers like you who are both loyal and open-minded are the lifeblood of a company like Vocalion - that's what I was trying to get at in my original post, people like you are just as an important part of D-V's customer-base now as their older clientele who want other (non-quad) things.

I said this about a year ago on this thread, but D-V are well aware of what QQ and other quad enthusiasts are interested in, and they want to give us what we want as much as we want to buy it. I know the wait can feel excruciating at times, but there's no hardline dogma at work where the label is saying no thanks to licensing the things you want, just so they can put out the things you don't want - to be that willfully ignorant would be commercial suicide. When you look at all the ways a reissue can go wrong, from price, to content, to sound quality, to even cancellation (and I think we've had examples of all of those this year) I think it's a minor miracle that a small label like D-V have been able to do what they've done.

Thanks for the clarification.

As a small business owner I fully understand the concept of giving people what they want and stop pre~supposing what they need.

Dutton Vocalion/Epoch have built up a loyal and successful base with this precept in mind and cannily, Michael Dutton took a calculated 'risk' by releasing hybrid Stereo/QUAD/5.1 in the first place when ALL of the US reissue companies bowed OUT.

But I do believe now that he DOES have our rapt attention and has successfully circumnavigated the red tape rigamarole associated with Surround reissues that he can NOW take risks because if you think about it, D~V's base does include 'children' of the 50's, 60's and 70's who I'm sure would welcome a lot more diversity in future surround releases.

I do have the utmost faith in Michael Dutton and his superb mastering abilities which stand out in an audio world of compression and mediocrity and look forward to what surprises he presents to us in the coming year.

Michael Dutton Rocks.......now just give us the ROLL!

 

[quicksrt]

I would literally faint if they did that as a two-fer. TOCOAN is one of the best Columbia quads IMO. I'm 100% behind any Columbia rock quad releases...they are all brilliant.



I'd say they already threw caution to the wind when they did Musicmagic and Illuminations. Both of those are just as challenging, if not more so, than Caravanserai.

I didn't mean the risk was that the music is "challenging" at all. I mean that the title has been reissued to death in stereo, and even twice on SACD, that makes it a potential risky release.

 

[fredblue]

I didn't mean the risk was that the music is "challenging" at all. I mean that the title has been reissued to death in stereo, and even twice on SACD, that makes it a potential risky release.

what's been reissued twice on SACD?

 

[ubertrout]

what's been reissued twice on SACD?

The Edgar Winter Group ‎– They Only Come Out At Night

 

[fredblue]

The Edgar Winter Group ‎– They Only Come Out At Night

really? i was only aware of one SACD issue (MFSL).

edit: this one, [FONT=&quot]UDSACD 2011
[/FONT]
https://www.discogs.com/The-Edgar-Winter-Group-They-Only-Come-Out-At-Night/release/1609369

 

[timbre4]

I didn't mean the risk was that the music is "challenging" at all. I mean that the title has been reissued to death in stereo, and even twice on SACD, that makes it a potential risky release.

This album was released as a bare bones CD (not even a booklet) in Columbia/Epic budget line packaging around 1985. It was never issued in a better, different form that I've ever seen. There may be different catalog numbers for different countries but it's all the same. About 15 years ago, it was paired with Shock Treatment as a 2-on-1 import CD release.

It has physically appeared on stereo SACD once in 2005 that I know of, the Mobile Fidelity listed above. There is a reference to an SACD reissue (with quad mix!) in 2008 Sony BMG Music Entertainment issue but that appears to be DOA as Sony bought out BMG and that was the end of that. This would be amazing *if* it actually existed. (looking at you Wikipedia)

Wishful thinking: A proper re-release would have hi-res quad, a decent booklet for a platinum seller of Edgar's best loved album, at least 3 bonus tracks (Catchin' Up, Frankenstein single edit, Free Ride single with different guitar lead and overall mix). It would be wonderful for someone to step up and release this under-serviced classic properly.

If Dutton Vocalion could release a straight quad re-issue would unleash a reference quality 4 channel mix that few have heard in the decades since.

 

[leahypc]

really? i was only aware of one SACD issue (MFSL).

edit: this one, [FONT=&quot]UDSACD 2011
[/FONT]
https://www.discogs.com/The-Edgar-Winter-Group-They-Only-Come-Out-At-Night/release/1609369

Besides, reissued twice would mean three. That can't be right, for sure...

 

[DuncanS]

It would be a great release, I have the SQ LP, bought in 76-77. I remember recording Frankenstein off the TV (a Black-&-White 405 line!) when they did it on The Old Grey Whistle Test circa 1973.

This album was released as a bare bones CD (not even a booklet) in Columbia/Epic budget line packaging around 1985. It was never issued in a better, different form that I've ever seen. There may be different catalog numbers for different countries but it's all the same. About 15 years ago, it was paired with Shock Treatment as a 2-on-1 import CD release.

It has physically appeared on stereo SACD once in 2005 that I know of, the Mobile Fidelity listed above. There is a reference to an SACD reissue (with quad mix!) in 2008 Sony BMG Music Entertainment issue but that appears to be DOA as Sony bought out BMG and that was the end of that. This would be amazing *if* it actually existed. (looking at you Wikipedia)

Wishful thinking: A proper re-release would have hi-res quad, a decent booklet for a platinum seller of Edgar's best loved album, at least 3 bonus tracks (Catchin' Up, Frankenstein single edit, Free Ride single with different guitar lead and overall mix). It would be wonderful for someone to step up and release this under-serviced classic properly.

If Dutton Vocalion could release a straight quad re-issue would unleash a reference quality 4 channel mix that few have heard in the decades since.

 

[quicksrt]

what's been reissued twice on SACD?

sjcorne: I'd say they already threw caution to the wind when they did Musicmagic and Illuminations. Both of those are just as challenging, if not more so, than Caravanserai.
----

And my comment in answering sjcorne: was If you read the thread, and follow the dialog, you can clearly see that Caravaseria is the title that I referred to as twice on SACD.

 

[quicksrt]

Besides, reissued twice would mean three. That can't be right, for sure...

Please read the thread again, and you'll see that Caravanseria is the twice on SACD (I stated) title that needs a quad high-res issue.

 

[quicksrt]

what's been reissued twice on SACD?

Caravanseria

 

[JediJoker]

Please read the thread again, and you'll see that Caravanseria is the twice on SACD (I stated) title that needs a quad high-res issue.

Caravanseria

*Caravanserai

 

[quicksrt]

This album was released as a bare bones CD (not even a booklet) in Columbia/Epic budget line packaging around 1985. It was never issued in a better, different form that I've ever seen. There may be different catalog numbers for different countries but it's all the same. About 15 years ago, it was paired with Shock Treatment as a 2-on-1 import CD release.

It has physically appeared on stereo SACD once in 2005 that I know of, the Mobile Fidelity listed above. There is a reference to an SACD reissue (with quad mix!) in 2008 Sony BMG Music Entertainment issue but that appears to be DOA as Sony bought out BMG and that was the end of that. This would be amazing *if* it actually existed. (looking at you Wikipedia)

Wishful thinking: A proper re-release would have hi-res quad, a decent booklet for a platinum seller of Edgar's best loved album, at least 3 bonus tracks (Catchin' Up, Frankenstein single edit, Free Ride single with different guitar lead and overall mix). It would be wonderful for someone to step up and release this under-serviced classic properly.

If Dutton Vocalion could release a straight quad re-issue would unleash a reference quality 4 channel mix that few have heard in the decades since.

There are single mixes of Hanging Around and Undercover Man iirc.

A super deluxe edition would also include Live in Santa Monica, at the Civic 1973. An electrifying performance and recording by the King Biscuit Flower Hour. It features the Ronnie Montrose version of the group.

 

[par4ken]

This album was released as a bare bones CD (not even a booklet) in Columbia/Epic budget line packaging around 1985. It was never issued in a better, different form that I've ever seen. There may be different catalog numbers for different countries but it's all the same. About 15 years ago, it was paired with Shock Treatment as a 2-on-1 import CD release.

It has physically appeared on stereo SACD once in 2005 that I know of, the Mobile Fidelity listed above. There is a reference to an SACD reissue (with quad mix!) in 2008 Sony BMG Music Entertainment issue but that appears to be DOA as Sony bought out BMG and that was the end of that. This would be amazing *if* it actually existed. (looking at you Wikipedia)

Wishful thinking: A proper re-release would have hi-res quad, a decent booklet for a platinum seller of Edgar's best loved album, at least 3 bonus tracks (Catchin' Up, Frankenstein single edit, Free Ride single with different guitar lead and overall mix). It would be wonderful for someone to step up and release this under-serviced classic properly.

If Dutton Vocalion could release a straight quad re-issue would unleash a reference quality 4 channel mix that few have heard in the decades since.

I would love to see this come out but I think that it would be far out of Dutton Vocalion's comfort zone. A 2-fer with Shock Treatment would be fantastic. Too bad AF hasn't released any Quad lately, when it was reported that they were going to be more selective with their multi-channel releases I assumed that would mean one or two a year, but in all of 2017 nothing, I just hope that they are not done with multi-channel for good!

 

[Philip Spinner]

There are single mixes of Hanging Around and Undercover Man iirc.

A super deluxe edition would also include Live in Santa Monica, at the Civic 1973. An electrifying performance and recording by the King Biscuit Flower Hour. It features the Ronnie Montrose version of the group.

Also Free Ride which has a very different mix than both the stereo album version and the quad version. I prefer the single mix of Free Ride.