Suggestions for Dutton Vocalion Multichannel SACD Releases

[J. PUPSTER]

I'm sure I've mentioned some of these before, but here's my current top 10 most-wanted list for D-V:

Dave Mason - It's Like You Never Left
Isley Brothers - Go For Your Guns
Ted Nugent - Free-For-All
Blue Oyster Cult - Tyranny & Mutation
O'Jays - Message In The Music
War - The World Is A Ghetto
Wild Cherry - Electrified Funk
Minnie Riperton - Adventures In Paradise
Mott The Hoople - The Hoople
Mahavishnu Orchestra - Between Nothingness & Eternity Live

I'd be in surround heaven with all of that (except maybe Mott The Hoople- not much into Glam Rock shite!) - just bring it!!!

 

[Dillydipper]

I wonder if Michael will ever be allowed to "augment" any of his pop titles with further experimental versions as bonuses?

We've seen our friends over at Eric release some convincingly-satisfactory volumes, pushing the whole potential for spectral-extraction into a whole new realm of "DES", widening and re-structuring mono recordings into legitimate stereo "soundstages", for want of a better description. Of course, DES underwent the standard "heresy" and "burn the witch!" charges for years that accompanied the fake-stereo releases of the 1960's (and of course, Turner's early applications of colorization to b-&-w classic films)...but even some purists are coming around to understanding what flawed technology and application can do, when craftsmen are allowed to continue to improve on it.

I maintain, the next stage of this "enlightened application" to current improvements could be in turning first-generation Quad mixes into impressive 5.1 re-imaginings, merely by "extracting" the similarities between the front left-right channels to facilitate a legitimate Center; extracting more characteristics from a Quad's left and right channels, to further isolate them as new Left- and Right-channels in the new 5.1 stage - then perhaps doing the same with the rears, of course - and then finally re-allocating lower sub-frequencies to a .1 channel (allowing the standard speakers already in place, to work for efficiently on non-sub-woofer material).

My take on the blessing of having Dutton-Vocalion in our corner is, that Michael has already shown us his mettle...now, let's see his "metallurgy"...!

 

[Larry Geller]

No, just no. I want my quad IN quad.

 

[Dillydipper]

That of course, puts you in rare company of a board full of people who came here in the first place, because they were unsatisfied with the stereo and mono everybody else around them was satisfied with.

 

[britmarc]

I wonder if Michael will ever be allowed to "augment" any of his pop titles with further experimental versions as bonuses?

We've seen our friends over at Eric release some convincingly-satisfactory volumes, pushing the whole potential for spectral-extraction into a whole new realm of "DES", widening and re-structuring mono recordings into legitimate stereo "soundstages", for want of a better description. Of course, DES underwent the standard "heresy" and "burn the witch!" charges for years that accompanied the fake-stereo releases of the 1960's (and of course, Turner's early applications of colorization to b-&-w classic films)...but even some purists are coming around to understanding what flawed technology and application can do, when craftsmen are allowed to continue to improve on it.

I maintain, the next stage of this "enlightened application" to current improvements could be in turning first-generation Quad mixes into impressive 5.1 re-imaginings, merely by "extracting" the similarities between the front left-right channels to facilitate a legitimate Center; extracting more characteristics from a Quad's left and right channels, to further isolate them as new Left- and Right-channels in the new 5.1 stage - then perhaps doing the same with the rears, of course - and then finally re-allocating lower sub-frequencies to a .1 channel (allowing the standard speakers already in place, to work for efficiently on non-sub-woofer material).

My take on the blessing of having Dutton-Vocalion in our corner is, that Michael has already shown us his mettle...now, let's see his "metallurgy"...!

I wonder if Michael will ever be allowed to "augment" any of his pop titles with further experimental versions as bonuses?

We've seen our friends over at Eric release some convincingly-satisfactory volumes, pushing the whole potential for spectral-extraction into a whole new realm of "DES", widening and re-structuring mono
recordings into legitimate stereo "soundstages", for want of a better description. Of course, DES underwent the standard "heresy" and "burn the witch!" charges for years that accompanied the fake-stereo releases of the 1960's (and of course, Turner's early applications of colorization to b-&-w classic films)...but even some purists are coming around to understanding what flawed technology and application can do, when craftsmen are allowed to continue to improve on it.

I maintain, the next stage of this "enlightened application" to current improvements could be in turning first-generation Quad mixes into impressive 5.1 re-imaginings, merely by "extracting" the similarities between the front left-right channels to facilitate a legitimate Center; extracting more characteristics from a Quad's left and right channels, to further isolate them as new Left- and Right-channels in the new 5.1 stage - then perhaps doing the same with the rears, of course - and then finally re-allocating lower sub-frequencies to a .1 channel (allowing the standard speakers already in place, to work for efficiently on non-sub-woofer material).

My take on the blessing of having Dutton-Vocalion in our corner is, that Michael has already shown us his mettle...now, let's see his "metallurgy"...!

He might try 'fixing' some of the quad titles where the multi-tracks were missing for some tracks - Arista's Dawn Greatest Hits;
The Tommy James and Shondells Greatest Hits;
etc

 

[EricKalet]

That of course, puts you in rare company of a board full of people who came here in the first place, because they were unsatisfied with the stereo and mono everybody else around them was satisfied with.

For me I wouldn't say unsatisfied with stereo. Just looking for an enhanced experience that surround provides.

Mono = only good for AM radio like sports radio

 

[Q-Eight]

He might try 'fixing' some of the quad titles where the multi-tracks were missing for some tracks - Arista's Dawn Greatest Hits;
The Tommy James and Shondells Greatest Hits;
etc

Which has been done with the Raiders' "Hard & Heavy" album; finally remixing the missing tracks. I'm perfectly OK with that! I wish they'd give the same treatment to the Greatest Hits, or Collage, or Pink Puzz..... but I know.... it costs money....

Still, if they were to attempt to try a vintage-style mix but having it be a new remix, I'd say go for it!

But a hard NO to upmixes on legitimate releases. Why would I pay money for something I could do myself on my PC?

 

[Dillydipper]

Well, whether you've done it on a PC or a wankel rotary engine, I'm more curious if anybody's ever tried it.

 

[jaybird100]

I wonder if Michael will ever be allowed to "augment" any of his pop titles with further experimental versions as bonuses?

We've seen our friends over at Eric release some convincingly-satisfactory volumes, pushing the whole potential for spectral-extraction into a whole new realm of "DES", widening and re-structuring mono recordings into legitimate stereo "soundstages", for want of a better description. Of course, DES underwent the standard "heresy" and "burn the witch!" charges for years that accompanied the fake-stereo releases of the 1960's (and of course, Turner's early applications of colorization to b-&-w classic films)...but even some purists are coming around to understanding what flawed technology and application can do, when craftsmen are allowed to continue to improve on it.

I maintain, the next stage of this "enlightened application" to current improvements could be in turning first-generation Quad mixes into impressive 5.1 re-imaginings, merely by "extracting" the similarities between the front left-right channels to facilitate a legitimate Center; extracting more characteristics from a Quad's left and right channels, to further isolate them as new Left- and Right-channels in the new 5.1 stage - then perhaps doing the same with the rears, of course - and then finally re-allocating lower sub-frequencies to a .1 channel (allowing the standard speakers already in place, to work for efficiently on non-sub-woofer material).

My take on the blessing of having Dutton-Vocalion in our corner is, that Michael has already shown us his mettle...now, let's see his "metallurgy"...!

A note on the Eric DES releases; they have clearly stated these spectrally extracted versions are not meant to replace the original mono versions, but merely to augment them. As one who buys practically every Eric title, as well as their associated labels, I'd say what they're doing is adding new life to these recordings. But would I want the same thing done for quad? I honestly don't know. I haven't heard any attempts, using the same technology as is used for mono-to-stereo. But it would be interesting.

 

[jaybird100]

On my wish list would be Simon & Garfunkel's "Bridge Over Troubled Water" album on SACD, along with Paul Simon's solo albums. The latter would probably be tricky, since Paul defected over to Warner Brothers, taking his masters with him. Also, he said he doesn't want his solo material released in multichannel. He seems to have become a non-believer.

 

[GOS]

First, remember I don't follow what titles are candidates and which aren't. But, what about Andy Williams Quad material from the 70's? He has several titles. Seems to me they would make an amazing addition to DV's catalog. I want Johnny Mathis, but something tells me that won't happen.

 

[Q-Eight]

First, remember I don't follow what titles are candidates and which aren't. But, what about Andy Williams Quad material from the 70's? He has several titles. Seems to me they would make an amazing addition to DV's catalog. I want Johnny Mathis, but something tells me that won't happen.

Might be a small market for that sort of thing.... I don't think I'd be a buyer, being honest.

I'm hoping we can get maybe some Kris Kristofferson, Mountain, The Youngbloods, Michael Nesmith long before we have to start dipping into Perry Como, Johnny Mathis or Andy Williams.

It would be nice to know definitively what happened to the DOT/ABC stuff. I know there's tons of rumours surrounding it and even I've been a proponent of the "It's all been dumped" conclusion. But, I'm not an industry insider with access to vaults. Some stuff has appeared on eBay in the last few years. It would be interesting to get in touch with some collectors who have duplication masters, borrow them to make digital copies and then approach the copyright owners with some good news!

If it's not too much trouble, maybe run a search for stuff from Donna Fargo or Roy Clark. Some of those albums are fun, with very nice Quad mixes, but also I don't think their albums are available in the digital domain. So, they're ripe for remasters and judging by how popular Hee-Haw still is on Youtube, D-V might-could corner the market. Or, I suppose, worst case Ontario.... at least we get some neat stereo remasters.

 

[GOS]

Might be a small market for that sort of thing.... I don't think I'd be a buyer, being honest.

Oh, for sure it would be a smaller market than the ones you mentioned. I'm just being selfish because I really love both artists. But, do you think they would be smaller market than say.... Arthur Fiedler type stuff?

 

[jaybird100]

Might be a small market for that sort of thing.... I don't think I'd be a buyer, being honest.

I'm hoping we can get maybe some Kris Kristofferson, Mountain, The Youngbloods, Michael Nesmith long before we have to start dipping into Perry Como, Johnny Mathis or Andy Williams.

It would be nice to know definitively what happened to the DOT/ABC stuff. I know there's tons of rumours surrounding it and even I've been a proponent of the "It's all been dumped" conclusion. But, I'm not an industry insider with access to vaults. Some stuff has appeared on eBay in the last few years. It would be interesting to get in touch with some collectors who have duplication masters, borrow them to make digital copies and then approach the copyright owners with some good news!

If it's not too much trouble, maybe run a search for stuff from Donna Fargo or Roy Clark. Some of those albums are fun, with very nice Quad mixes, but also I don't think their albums are available in the digital domain. So, they're ripe for remasters and judging by how popular Hee-Haw still is on Youtube, D-V might-could corner the market. Or, I suppose, worst case Ontario.... at least we get some neat stereo remasters.

The ABC/Dot masters are controlled by Universal. I doubt they'll participate. The Andy William's and Johnny Mathis albums are part of Sony Music, probably the biggest contributor to DV.

 

[Q-Eight]

Oh, for sure it would be a smaller market than the ones you mentioned. I'm just being selfish because I really love both artists. But, do you think they would be smaller market than say.... Arthur Fiedler type stuff?

Hard to say. Just going off my own tastes, I enjoy big band stuff a lot more than I like crooners.

 

[Q-Eight]

The ABC/Dot masters are controlled by Universal. I doubt they'll participate. The Andy William's and Johnny Mathis albums are part of Sony Music, probably the biggest contributor to DV.

I guess I would just like an actual definitive answer one way or t'other. We know some stuff has survived the great purge and the 2008 fire. But we also know because of that fire, a lot of stuff has vanished like the Carpenters masters & multis.

 

[Circular Vibes]

It would not surprise me if the Carpenters masters were destroyed at the request of Richard. On his website he says the quads were released with no input from him. He did not like them and did not want them rereleased. He only likes the SACD in regards to Carpenters surround mixes as he did them himself.

 

[4-earredwonder]

It would not surprise me if the Carpenters masters were destroyed at the request of Richard. On his website he says the quads were released with no input from him. He did not like them and did not want them rereleased. He only likes the SACD in regards to Carpenters surround mixes as he did them himself.

You may have misunderstood, CV, that ALL the Carpenter's multi tracks were destroyed in the fire days after Richard C. returned them to the vaults after remixing the Greatest Hits mch SACD which we all love. This means he could never conceivably remix any more Carpenters albums in surround, including the botched A&M QUAD remixes which were unpopular.

 

[sjcorne]

This means he could never conceivably remix any more Carpenters albums in surround, including the botched A&M QUAD remixes which were unpopular.

First off - the multitrack masters may have been destroyed, but the quad masters are an entirely different set of tapes that could have survived. Even if the US copies of the quad masters were destroyed, there could be safeties in other countries. Now & Then and The Singles were released as CD-4 LPs by King Records in Japan, so maybe they still have the tapes those were mastered from.

Secondly, who told you the quad mixes were botched? I thought the quad mix of Now & Then was fantastic. In fact, I prefer the quad versions of "Yesterday Once More" and "This Masquerade" to the new 5.1's. The Singles is also pretty good, as is Horizon. I haven't heard the others, so I can't comment further.

 

[Circular Vibes]

Secondly, who told you the quad mixes were botched?

I did not say botched. I said the quads were done without Richards knowledge and permission as he told it himself on his website as a reply to a fan question. He made it clear that he did not like the quad mixes and would not support reissuing them.