Surround Master V3 has landed (news, discounts etc)

[Soundfield]

A ceramic pickup outputs a line level signal, so no preamp is needed. And the RIAA de-emphasis is built into every ceramic pickup.

More by luck than design.

Magnetic cartridges are velocity sensors i.e. the output signal level is proportional to the velocity of the stylus, and their output therefore rises with frequency.

Ceramic cartridges are amplitude sensors i.e. the output signal level is proportional to the amplitude of the motion of the stylus. As a consequence there is no signal level increase with higher frequencies (because the amplitude of motion doesn't increase), and hence in theory RIAA de-emphasis need not be applied. But, particularly if you haven’t got the input impedance right in your preamp the frequency response of an unequalised ceramic cartridge is only very approximately flat when playing an RIAA pre-emphasised record. Although given the that the overall sound quality of such devices is so poor you probably won’t notice.

 

[chucky3042]

Of all my equipment the only piece of gear that has a vertical arrangement is the Surround Master v2. So much for my little brain to process.... top = left, bottom = right.

Obviously paired cable lays or routes smoother (just a bit) when horizontal rather than twist sideways from vert to horiz & twist back to vert when connecting.

But to more important stuff. Has Chucky said anything about what that WiFi'ish antenna at top right is for?

Hi Sonik
It's mechanical, the rca connector red/white are arranged vertically. You cannot but mirrored ones..... White Red. So in terms of Pcb design and wanting to abolish wires it hooks you in.
The wifi antenna thingy is to ensure good Bluetooth connection

 

[par4ken]

We are getting off topic with this talk of ceramic cartridges, and I might of started it! So much so that I was starting to think that the new pre-amp had a ceramic cartridge input! You could use a line input for a ceramic cartridge, but I don't recommend it as even the cheapest MM cartridge that I've ever auditioned sounds far better than any ceramic cartridge that I've ever listed to.

Moving coils are another further step above MM (although there are some exceptions).

Then we have the ceramic cartridges close relative the strain gauge, they apparently sound good and don't need RIAA equalisation either.

 

[chucky3042]

We are getting off topic with this talk of ceramic cartridges, and I might of started it! So much so that I was starting to think that the new pre-amp had a ceramic cartridge input! You could use a line input for a ceramic cartridge, but I don't recommend it as even the cheapest MM cartridge that I've ever auditioned sounds far better than any ceramic cartridge that I've ever listed to.

Moving coils are another further step above MM (although there are some exceptions).

Then we have the ceramic cartridges close relative the strain gauge, they apparently sound good and don't need RIAA equalisation either.

Check out the induced magnet technique such as in my ADC Zlm. Best of both worlds, nothing is mounted on the shaft, no coil, no magnet yet has a high output like the MM.

 

[LB-V]

Bluetooth

I'm pretty naive to the current digital technology...trying to catch up...can Bluetooth be used to transfer / play even the larger, higher quality digital files without any issues?


Edit: Staying on topic, I wouldn't really need another pre-amp, but if the SM pre provides a means to play quality digital files...I do not currently have a means to do so...I would be more interested.

 

[MidiMagic]

Don't ceramic cartridges pre-date RIAA EQ?

Yes. But they can make a ceramic cartridge for any of the de-emphasis curves needed. It is a matter of the shape of the piece of ceramic.

A brief history of pre-emphasis and de-emphasis.

- The recording curve of acoustic records was determined by the horn and diaphragm.
- In 1926 with electrical recording, the magnetic cutter determined the recording curve.
- In 1928, they rolled off the bass for more playing time for the standard 78 curve.
- In 1937, Decca increased the treble for the ffrr curve. Other companies followed suit.
. . . ffrr = Full frequency range reproduction. Treble cut in playback reduces noise.
- Most European companies did not make this change. So phonos got tone controls.
- Magnetic cartridges needed different de-emphasis than crystal cartridges did.
- The NAB created recording curves for lateral and vertical recording at 33 and 78 rpm.
. . . NAB = National Association of Broadcasters . . . 33 rpm was for recording voice programs.
- When Columbia introduced the LP, it used the lateral 33 rpm NAB curve with a bass cut.
- As LPs and 45s entered the market, companies used many different pre-emphasis curves.
- When Collaro made the first ceramic cartridge, it was made for the Columbia curve.
- During the early 1950s, preamps were switchable for many different recording curves.
- The RIAA decided on a standard curve in 1953. By 1957, all US companies were using it.
. . . RIAA = Recording Industry Association of America.
- Shortly after this, most ceramic cartridges were made for RIAA.
- Magnetic cartridge preamps continued with selectable curves until stereo appeared.

An adjustment of tone controls took care of older records with other curves.

 

[AYanguas]

I just received the Surround Master V3.

I was afraid of the NON AVR processing with the multichannel analog inputs.

I didn’t care Bass management (all my speakers are full range) or the Audyssey room correction (I have some medium room treatment). I was only afraid about the missing Audyssey DEQ. I have always DEQ ON because I’m not listening to very high volumes and if DEQ off, the sound is too weak for me.

BUT, I had a pleasant surprise. First tests with Surround Master have shown me a cleaner sound (7.1CH IN analog in my Denon 8500) and enough bass.

I have tested some stereo tracks with Involve mode 4.1 and 5.1. I do not get many discrete sounds from the rears but compared to DSU I get a more clean and immersive sound bubble. Specially the Center channel is not so aggressive as DSU (even with center spread on) and everything sounds more balanced.

To compensate the lack of bass I get with Audyssey DEQ, just increasing the volume levels of rears or the SUB channel from SM or from the Subwoofer and I get enough Bass and I’m very happy.

It is the first time I test the analog path with “7.1 CH IN” AVR input and I get a cleaner, better sound than with hdmi, either DEQ ON, DEQ off, Direct, Pure Direct. You can tweak the volume levels of each channels and specially the SUB channel. That’s not the same as a fully EQ setting, but I found enough to get an ‘audiophile sound’ to my ears.

In summary, I’m very happy with the new toy for “living life in surround”.

 

[J. PUPSTER]

I have tested some stereo tracks with Involve mode 4.1 and 5.1. I do not get many discrete sounds from the rears but compared to DSU I get a more clean and immersive sound bubble.

Congratulations!

If you don't mind, what music have you tried so far?

To get more "discrete" stuff to the rears the right content and SM mode (I recommend Involve 4.x mode) can make a huge difference.

 

[AYanguas]

If you don't mind, what music have you tried so far?

I tested one of my "test" tracks that I use: Simplicious from Martigan "Distant Monsters" album.
Also now listening some Barclay James Harvest last 90's albums. (The good 70's Barclays are already in Surround )

To get more "discrete" stuff to the rears the right content and SM mode (I recommend Involve 4.x mode) can make a huge difference.

I know, it is content dependent. Quick tests and yes I was looking more to Involve mode alternating between 4.1 and 5.1

Just starting. Have to test more. Also have to check whether rears are best on side surrounds or on surround backs (from the 7.1). I've got some Quad vinyl ripping also to test.

But the initial feeling, even if not too discrete, is that I get more immersion than just expanded stereo.

 

[kap'n krunch]

I tested one of my "test" tracks that I use: Simplicious from Martigan "Distant Monsters" album.
Also now listening some Barclay James Harvest last 90's albums. (The good 70's Barclays are already in Surround )



I know, it is content dependent. Quick tests and yes I was looking more to Involve mode alternating between 4.1 and 5.1

Just starting. Have to test more. Also have to check whether rears are best on side surrounds or on surround backs (from the 7.1). I've got some Quad vinyl ripping also to test.

But the initial feeling, even if not too discrete, is that I get more immersion than just expanded stereo.

¿Cuanto te salió los impuestos por el envío?

 

[AYanguas]

¿Cuanto te salió los impuestos por el envío?

21% IVA Importación = 126,80€
Import Services Correos = 30,50€
TOTAL = 157,30 €

 

[The56Kid]

21% IVA Importación = 126,80€
Import Services Correos = 30,50€
TOTAL = 157,30 €

Que monton de chingones!!!

 

[kap'n krunch]

21% IVA Importación = 126,80€
Import Services Correos = 30,50€
TOTAL = 157,30 €

¡¡JO- DEEEERRRRRRRR!!!!!

 

[chucky3042]

Its all Greek to me

 

[kap'n krunch]

aw, come on, Español is not THAT difficult...at least we share the roman letters, a lot of words with English, vowel wise it is MUCH easier than English (17 vowel sounds in Inglés and only 5 in Español) and there are a lot of GREEK words in Spanish...if you are really interested Google Translator is your friend

 

[chucky3042]

aw, come on, Español is not THAT difficult...at least we share the roman letters, a lot of words with English, vowel wise it is MUCH easier than English (17 vowel sounds in Inglés and only 5 in Español) and there are a lot of GREEK words in Spanish...if you are really interested Google Translator is your friend

Hé, ik ben gewoon een grote, maat 16-voetige Nederlander die nooit beter werd dan een C in het Engels op school. Nu verwacht je dat ik Spaans versta!

 

[kap'n krunch]

Hé, ik ben gewoon een grote, maat 16-voetige Nederlander die nooit beter werd dan een C in het Engels op school. Nu verwacht je dat ik Spaans versta!

Fair enough... I can understand French, Italiano and Portuguese but I have always found Dutch quite daunting!

 

[AYanguas]

¡¡JO- DEEEERRRRRRRR!!!!!

Google translator can't with this

 

[AYanguas]

Continue testing SM V3

Have discovered some artifacts that distort the 4.0 output.
- Some interference noise in Santana III
- Gurgle voice in Beck-Sea Change "Paper Tiger" at about 02:00

Was not ocurring in Stereo or SQ modes.

Fortunately I have just dicovered the cause: The Input Level was a little bit high and clipping was ocurring. I didn't notice as the red LED was almost unnoticeable.
I had increased the input level until red LED clipping was occuring and then lower a little. To have similar level to HDMI to a-b compare without changing the AVR master volume.
Obviously that was OK for some tracks but High for some others.
The clipping was minimal and with day light I was not seeing the minimum red LED lighting.

Now come back the input level to its original 0dB position and better to increase the volume level from the AVR again. Good. Problem solved

I had completely forgotten how important it was the analog signal level when I was recording to cassette tapes in the 70's.

 

[chucky3042]

Continue testing SM V3

Have discovered some artifacts that distort the 4.0 output.
- Some interference noise in Santana III
- Gurgle voice in Beck-Sea Change "Paper Tiger" at about 02:00

Was not ocurring in Stereo or SQ modes.

Fortunately I have just dicovered the cause: The Input Level was a little bit high and clipping was ocurring. I didn't notice as the red LED was almost unnoticeable.
I had increased the input level until red LED clipping was occuring and then lower a little. To have similar level to HDMI to a-b compare without changing the AVR master volume.
Obviously that was OK for some tracks but High for some others.
The clipping was minimal and with day light I was not seeing the minimum red LED lighting.

Now come back the input level to its original 0dB position and better to increase the volume level from the AVR again. Good. Problem solved

I had completely forgotten how important it was the analog signal level when I was recording to cassette tapes in the 70's.

First complaint we have had that our lights are not bright enough!!!!!!