Surround Virtualization for Headphones

[foxtrot]

For 7.1 Virtual Surround, If you have installed HeSuVi and Equalizer APO, here are some demo files from impulcifer to try.

These are not measurements I took, but just the demo stuff proving things work (but not too shabby for my ears anyway).

Put these two files in C:\Program Files\EqualizerAPO\config\HeSuVi\hrir and restart HeSuVi.

In HeSuVi, select one of the two files from the Common HRIRs list on Virtualization tab.

hesuvi_i_demo is the default demo file from impulcifer. It has a lot of room reverb in it, which may help with your sense of surround, but I didn't care for it.

I re-ran the demo command, adding --decay=5, to change the reverb decay time to 5ms. So that is the 2nd file: hesuvi_i_demo2.

I'm curious to no how that works for people.

I did do all that in virtual box, by the way (The impulcifer stuff, not the actual playback with hesuvi). Next I will try some measurements, using the in ear capsule mics that came with the A16.

You asked for responses on how the hesuvi_demo files work. I have Impulcifer and have used it to create my own HRTF measurements. It took some experimentation, numerous measurement sessions, and trying various command line options, but the final results are beyond amazing. For me there's no comparison between the demo files you posted and my personal HRTF files. Night and day. But of course it all depends on how well your ears and hearing match the demo files, so YMMV. I just wanted to let anyone reading this know not to judge the potential of Impulcifer by those demo files if they don't knock your socks off. For me Impulcifer with my HD600 headphones is a dream come true. I'll just leave it at that. Cheers.

 

[doity]

I'm kind of on a different planet with this crazy idea but here it is: a head tracker for quadphones, using very simple technology such a compass sensor, accelerometer, and raspberry pi/arduino, no face tracking. The head tracker would control the channel output rotation, could be just a servo on the mouse tracking pad with the clicker taped down lol. It wouldn't be hard for someone with good programming skills(not me), would be very ugly and only work for side-to-side panning of course, I like looking like an escaped science project anyway.
I'm also looking for a set of the Koss quadphones with the special control box, something like that, a circuit that controls balance/blend/phase, or circuit like the pre-synth idea @Sonik Wiz has talked about for using with the SM(I cant find the specific thread) could also be interesting through quadphones, attached to a servo controlled by the head tracker. Need octo-phones! 🎚🕹

Those Koss phase 2+2 phones work very well with quad and also have very good overall range. They really don’t color the audio one way or the other. Neither real bright nor bassy. Don’t listen to other people who talk down about them. They work well and I can always differentiate back and front. Though it takes a bit of listening before it is apparent but once you ‘have it’ you can really start to enjoy them.

Obviously the real discrete mixes are the best for them and you can use the little buttons to move the sound around. I like them because you don’t have to be stationary and sitting in one place to enjoy Quad. Get a pair of them and put on some discrete Moody Blues and it is heaven. Nothing like hearing the Mellotron coming clearly from the back channels and not stuck in the mix.

 

[zeerround]

You asked for responses on how the hesuvi_demo files work. I have Impulcifer and have used it to create my own HRTF measurements. It took some experimentation, numerous measurement sessions, and trying various command line options, but the final results are beyond amazing. For me there's no comparison between the demo files you posted and my personal HRTF files. Night and day. But of course it all depends on how well your ears and hearing match the demo files, so YMMV. I just wanted to let anyone reading this know not to judge the potential of Impulcifer by those demo files if they don't knock your socks off. For me Impulcifer with my HD600 headphones is a dream come true. I'll just leave it at that. Cheers.

Any interest in expanding your HRTF measurements to 12 or 16 channels (add 4 height or 4 height and 4 bottom)?

I'm targeting upmixes for 16 channels: 7.1.4.4 (7.1 plus four height and four bottom i.e. ground level).

I haven't tried with EQ APO but have ffmpeg/sox scripts to convert up to 16 channels to binaural, given a 32 ch impulse file.

My chosen format for the 32 channel file is a stereo IR for each speaker location (left then right), with the Speaker Order being:

LF RF C LFE Ls Rs Lss Rss Lfg Rfg Ltf Rtf Lbg Rbg Ltf Rtf

s = surround
ss = side surround
g = ground
t = top or height
b = back
f = front

I'll be posting the scripts etc. soon. Also a great find of 1200+ headphone EQ IRs, and versions of my scripts that do the headphone EQ as a 2nd step after the Binaural conversion.

Or, if you prefer, the headphone EQ part can be done live in EQ APO.

 

[hobie1dog]

Those Koss phase 2+2 phones work very well with quad and also have very good overall range. They really don’t color the audio one way or the other. Neither real bright nor bassy. Don’t listen to other people who talk down about them. They work well and I can always differentiate back and front. Though it takes a bit of listening before it is apparent but once you ‘have it’ you can really start to enjoy them.

Obviously the real discrete mixes are the best for them and you can use the little buttons to move the sound around. I like them because you don’t have to be stationary and sitting in one place to enjoy Quad. Get a pair of them and put on some discrete Moody Blues and it is heaven. Nothing like hearing the Mellotron coming clearly from the back channels and not stuck in the mix.

I have a catalog from them I saved as I always wanted a pair of them

 

[hobie1dog]

 

[hobie1dog]

 

[hobie1dog]

zeerround: Man you're into it DEEP, thanks so much for posting all this up for us. I'm totally oblivious to what's out there and coming up in the world of surround headphones. The price of Koss 2+2 headphones will end up being 2K dollars after this.

 

[foxtrot]

Any interest in expanding your HRTF measurements to 12 or 16 channels (add 4 height or 4 height and 4 bottom)?

I'm targeting upmixes for 16 channels: 7.1.4.4 (7.1 plus four height and four bottom i.e. ground level).

I haven't tried with EQ APO but have ffmpeg/sox scripts to convert up to 16 channels to binaural, given a 32 ch impulse file.

My chosen format for the 32 channel file is a stereo IR for each speaker location (left then right), with the Speaker Order being:

LF RF C LFE Ls Rs Lss Rss Lfg Rfg Ltf Rtf Lbg Rbg Ltf Rtf

s = surround
ss = side surround
g = ground
t = top or height
b = back
f = front

I'll be posting the scripts etc. soon. Also a great find of 1200+ headphone EQ IRs, and versions of my scripts that do the headphone EQ as a 2nd step after the Binaural conversion.

Or, if you prefer, the headphone EQ part can be done live in EQ APO.

I'm not interested at this time. Sorry, I jumped into the middle of your extensive topic. I only use Impulcifer for stereo recordings for now. I just wanted to offer an endorsement of it as being capable of truly astonishing imaging and sound quality, and definitely worthy of experimentation for anyone with a bit of DIY capability and motivation to open up their headphone experience into next level dimensions.

 

[zeerround]

zeerround: Man you're into it DEEP, thanks so much for posting all this up for us. I'm totally oblivious to what's out there and coming up in the world of surround headphones. The price of Koss 2+2 headphones will end up being 2K dollars after this.

Well this would be surround on standard headphones. With VR/AR there is a lot of research going on in this area.

 

[zeerround]

Here is version 2.0 of drag and drop scripts to convert multichannel surround to virtual surround for headphones:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1uVFbdcCHb0T6kfzq9CiXPdG9WKXeusYc/view?usp=sharing
Edit: 03-14-2021

There is a small bug in the script for converting to Binaural, with Headphone equalization, that only affects 7.1 input files.​

​

There is an erroneous file delete command at line 48 in the .bat file.​

​

You can just delete it, or use the attached corrected version​

​

From the included ReadMe.txt file:

This is version 2.0 of virtual surround for headphones. Now supporting 3d / Immersive
Surround Formats.

This converts stereo, 4.0, 5.0, 7.1, 7.1.4, or 7.1.4.4 multichannel surround
files to binaural audio for headphones, with or without headphone equalization.

The resulting binaural flac files (2 channels 48Khz 24bits) can be played back using any stereo
player with your headphones.

Drag and drop scripts are used with ffmpeg and sox (included) doing the hard work for you.

The ffmpeg and sox included here are self contained, and won't change any existing ffmpeg or sox
install you have.

Drag and drop one or more stereo, 4.0, 5.0, 7.1, 7.1.4, or 7.1.4.4 multichannel surround
files onto:

Convert_to_binaural.bat

to convert the input files to virtual surround (binaural), using the My-IR.wav room+ears
impulse response file

Convert_to_binaural headphones.bat

to convert the input files to virtual surround (binaural), using the My-IR.wav room+ears
impulse response file AND equalize for your specific headphones model using My-Headphones.wav

The output files will be in the same directory as your input files. "_binaural" will be added to the input
file name. For the script inducing headphone response, "_binaural_headphone" will be added to the input
file name.


In the Headphones-Files folder are more than 1200 headphone impulse response files. Copy the one
for your headphones model to this folder and rename it My-Headphones.wav (you can delete the existing
one, it's for Sony MDR 7506 Headphones).

If there is more than one Impulse Response for your Headphone Model, you can try each and pick the one
that sounds best.

The source for the headphone response files is:

ShanonPearce/ASH-IR-Dataset

In the IR-Files folder are 22 different ear+room impulse responses to try.

BBC_IR.wav is from here:

bbc/bbcrd-brirs

Recorded in a BBC room with a Neumann KU100 dummy head microphone.

A1_IR.wav is that same room response, but adjusted for my ears and my HD 800S headphones by
my Smyth Realiser A16

The remaining 20 Impulse Response ear + room files are from here:

SADIE | Spatial Audio For Domestic Interactive Entertainment

The first two being recorded with two different dummy head mics, and the rest with actual
humans

To use the above scripts you'll need to delete the My-IR.wav file in this directory (It is a copy
of BBC_IR.wav) and copy your favorite IR file to this directory and rename it My-IR.wav

In order to help you pick the best room+ears IR file for you, drag and drop on or more
stereo, 4.0, 5.0, 7.1, 7.1.4, or 7.1.4.4 multichannel surround
files onto:

Test_ALL_IRs.bat

For each input file, and output file will be created for each of the 22 IRs in the IR-Files
folder. The name of the IR file will added to the input file name. e.g. for an input file
called "Love Alive Stereo.flac":

"Love Alive Stereo_A16_IR_binaural.flac"
"Love Alive Stereo_BBC_IR_binaural.flac"
"Love Alive Stereo_D1_IR_binaural.flac"
etc.

Test_ALL_IRs headphones.bat

Same as above but adding the headphone response file My-Headphones.wav. Output filenames will
have the name of the IR file and "_binaural_headphone" added.

The folder "Test and Example Source Tracks" has Channel ID tracks in each of the supported surround
formats, 2 through 16 channels, as well as noise test tone track, for 16 channels.

These are all intended to help you pick the best IR file for your ears. Drag and drop one or more of them onto
on of the Test_ALL_IRs, as described above, to check it out.

You should also try some music tracks.

Lastly, the script "Add Headphone Response to Stereo (or Binaural).bat will add the My-Headphones.wav response
to any stereo (or already converted to binaural, withOUT headphone response) file.

Cheers,
Glenn

 

[doity]

$145 in 1975 dollars is equivalent to well over $700 now. That would be a lot more than a lot people would pay for a pair of headphones. It seemed that the technology was finally improving in regards to Surround sound via headphones when these were introduced in 1975/1976. By then Quad was on its last legs as far as the public was concerned so unfortunately no new technology like this was persued.

 

[zeerround]

$145 in 1975 dollars is equivalent to well over $700 now. That would be a lot more than a lot people would pay for a pair of headphones. It seemed that the technology was finally improving in regards to Surround sound via headphones when these were introduced in 1975/1976. By then Quad was on its last legs as far as the public was concerned so unfortunately no new technology like this was persued.

I feel like discussion of multi-driver headphones is going off topic, in this thread, but I will say that I have explored modern solutions and found them lacking.

Granted, the market is for gaming, not music, and even stated as such in the products, but the result is still they sound like crap for music.

Again, I'm talking about multi-driver headphones, not surround headphones that work via Dolby or DTS surround virtualization (which require the content be Dobly or DTS encoded):

https://gadgets-reviews.com/review/141-best-gaming-7-1-and-5-1-headsets.html
AND my goal is for Immersive/3D surround. So for my purposes 7.1 doesn't cut it.

Hence the end result for me was testing, then investing in the Smyth Realiser A16, which is the ultimate solution (But $$$).

This thread explores what can be done with Surround Virtualization for (normal stereo) headphones with less money.

 

[furui_suterioo]

Seems like it wouldn't be too hard to adapt the stereo output of a virtualization software/head tracker to 4.0 for a pair of quadphones(made for music). I use a specially configured balancer with mine to control blend of OOP sound, it doesn't produce "binaural realism" but it does create a really trippy sound field, which I've previously described as an "in-head leslie speaker". Quadphones with phase control is the only headphones that do this using only simple adapters, I couldn't even imagine how trippy they would sound with modern virtualization enhancement.

 

[zeerround]

Post #30 edited to fix a bug for Binaural conversion with Headphone EQ for 7.1 files.

 

[gorman]

Here is version 2.0 of drag and drop scripts to convert multichannel surround to virtual surround for headphones:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1uVFbdcCHb0T6kfzq9CiXPdG9WKXeusYc/view?usp=sharing
Edit: 03-14-2021

There is a small bug in the script for converting to Binaural, with Headphone equalization, that only affects 7.1 input files.​

​

There is an erroneous file delete command at line 48 in the .bat file.​

​

You can just delete it, or use the attached corrected version​

​

From the included ReadMe.txt file:

This is version 2.0 of virtual surround for headphones. Now supporting 3d / Immersive
Surround Formats.

This converts stereo, 4.0, 5.0, 7.1, 7.1.4, or 7.1.4.4 multichannel surround
files to binaural audio for headphones, with or without headphone equalization.

The resulting binaural flac files (2 channels 48Khz 24bits) can be played back using any stereo
player with your headphones.

Drag and drop scripts are used with ffmpeg and sox (included) doing the hard work for you.

The ffmpeg and sox included here are self contained, and won't change any existing ffmpeg or sox
install you have.

Drag and drop one or more stereo, 4.0, 5.0, 7.1, 7.1.4, or 7.1.4.4 multichannel surround
files onto:

Convert_to_binaural.bat

to convert the input files to virtual surround (binaural), using the My-IR.wav room+ears
impulse response file

Convert_to_binaural headphones.bat

to convert the input files to virtual surround (binaural), using the My-IR.wav room+ears
impulse response file AND equalize for your specific headphones model using My-Headphones.wav

The output files will be in the same directory as your input files. "_binaural" will be added to the input
file name. For the script inducing headphone response, "_binaural_headphone" will be added to the input
file name.


In the Headphones-Files folder are more than 1200 headphone impulse response files. Copy the one
for your headphones model to this folder and rename it My-Headphones.wav (you can delete the existing
one, it's for Sony MDR 7506 Headphones).

If there is more than one Impulse Response for your Headphone Model, you can try each and pick the one
that sounds best.

The source for the headphone response files is:

ShanonPearce/ASH-IR-Dataset

In the IR-Files folder are 22 different ear+room impulse responses to try.

BBC_IR.wav is from here:

bbc/bbcrd-brirs

Recorded in a BBC room with a Neumann KU100 dummy head microphone.

A1_IR.wav is that same room response, but adjusted for my ears and my HD 800S headphones by
my Smyth Realiser A16

The remaining 20 Impulse Response ear + room files are from here:

SADIE | Spatial Audio For Domestic Interactive Entertainment

The first two being recorded with two different dummy head mics, and the rest with actual
humans

To use the above scripts you'll need to delete the My-IR.wav file in this directory (It is a copy
of BBC_IR.wav) and copy your favorite IR file to this directory and rename it My-IR.wav

In order to help you pick the best room+ears IR file for you, drag and drop on or more
stereo, 4.0, 5.0, 7.1, 7.1.4, or 7.1.4.4 multichannel surround
files onto:

Test_ALL_IRs.bat

For each input file, and output file will be created for each of the 22 IRs in the IR-Files
folder. The name of the IR file will added to the input file name. e.g. for an input file
called "Love Alive Stereo.flac":

"Love Alive Stereo_A16_IR_binaural.flac"
"Love Alive Stereo_BBC_IR_binaural.flac"
"Love Alive Stereo_D1_IR_binaural.flac"
etc.

Test_ALL_IRs headphones.bat

Same as above but adding the headphone response file My-Headphones.wav. Output filenames will
have the name of the IR file and "_binaural_headphone" added.

The folder "Test and Example Source Tracks" has Channel ID tracks in each of the supported surround
formats, 2 through 16 channels, as well as noise test tone track, for 16 channels.

These are all intended to help you pick the best IR file for your ears. Drag and drop one or more of them onto
on of the Test_ALL_IRs, as described above, to check it out.

You should also try some music tracks.

Lastly, the script "Add Headphone Response to Stereo (or Binaural).bat will add the My-Headphones.wav response
to any stereo (or already converted to binaural, withOUT headphone response) file.

Cheers,
Glenn

Thanks for sharing this. I will surely give it a try.

For home use I bought Corsair Orbit S. They use Waves NX and have integrated head tracking. So far it's been the most convincing experience. Far superior to anything else I had tried before (and I tried lot of stuff). Unfortunately they can't handle Atmos or DTS-X as those formats can't be decoded to regular LPCM, for obvious reasons.

Realizer A16 is in my wishlist but I'm scared off but how limited support appear to be and by the fact that, after years, they still lack decoding capabilities for major codecs. Not gonna buy an incomplete product for that kind of money.

 

[esimms86]

Thanks for sharing this. I will surely give it a try.

For home use I bought Corsair Orbit S. They use Waves NX and have integrated head tracking. So far it's been the most convincing experience. Far superior to anything else I had tried before (and I tried lot of stuff). Unfortunately they can't handle Atmos or DTS-X as those formats can't be decoded to regular LPCM, for obvious reasons.

Realizer A16 is in my wishlist but I'm scared off but how limited support appear to be and by the fact that, after years, they still lack decoding capabilities for major codecs. Not gonna buy an incomplete product for that kind of money.

Just an FYI that the A16 does Atmos and literally just got certified (and is selling software upgrade for $199 for) DTS: X. At this point, unless you really need Auro 3D you could be mostly good to go. Having said that, the Realiser Exchange is still not up, and the PRIRs made for individual backers at various audio shows have yet to be distributed.

 

[gorman]

Just an FYI that the A16 does Atmos and literally just got certified (and is selling software upgrade for $199 for) DTS: X. At this point, unless you really need Auro 3D you could be mostly good to go. Having said that, the Realiser Exchange is still not up, and the PRIRs made for individual backers at various audio shows have yet to be distributed.

Thanks for the update. So DTS-X is a paid for upgrade? Wow...

And no, I don't care much for Auro 3D, there is little native content for it, very little and using a solution like this the last thing I would want is an upmixer in the chain, to be honest.

 

[zeerround]

Thanks for sharing this. I will surely give it a try.

For home use I bought Corsair Orbit S. They use Waves NX and have integrated head tracking. So far it's been the most convincing experience. Far superior to anything else I had tried before (and I tried lot of stuff). Unfortunately they can't handle Atmos or DTS-X as those formats can't be decoded to regular LPCM, for obvious reasons.

Realizer A16 is in my wishlist but I'm scared off but how limited support appear to be and by the fact that, after years, they still lack decoding capabilities for major codecs. Not gonna buy an incomplete product for that kind of money.

So what input format(s) can you play with that rig. Since it's waves NX I thinking 1st order ambisonics?

It's been a while since I've fired up Waves NX. Checking... OK yeah, in order to get Height channels you'd have to use the 1st order (4 ch) ambisonics plugin. I'll PM you with some 1st order ambisonics encoded content (up-remixed 7.1.4 source).

Does the Corsair Orbit S sound OK for music? Sometimes gaming headsets don't.

 

[gorman]

So what input format(s) can you play with that rig. Since it's waves NX I thinking 1st order ambisonics?

Everything that can be decoded to LPCM (up to 7.1) from the player. So AAC multichannel, FLAC multichannel, WAV multichannel, DTS, AC3, DTS-HD MA and Dolby True HD. No Atmos or DTS-X

Does the Corsair Orbit S sound OK for music? Sometimes gaming headsets don't.

It can. It's basically an Audeze Mobius without the bluetooth component. I still think it shines with movie/tv content but it's not bad for music if you equalize to your liking.

It's been a while since I've fired up Waves NX. Checking... OK yeah, in order to get Height channels you'd have to use the 1st order (4 ch) ambisonics plugin. I'll PM you with some 1st order ambisonics encoded content (up-remixed 7.1.4 source).

Always curious to try new stuff. Thank you.

 

[kfbkfb]

I never listened to Quad headphones during the Quad era although I listened quite often to the stereo folddown of my Quad albums (matrix and CD-4) with stereo headphones (tried the SQ "decoding" w/stereo headphones only, didn't notice much of a surround effect).

Skimming this thread, does the preprocessing to create a surround sound effect for stereo headphones modify the frequency response of any of the input channels (to simulate what the shape of the human ear does to sounds from various directions)?


Kirk Bayne