Tears for Fears Tipping Point Blu Ray audio

[salsdali]

has anyone compared the disc to the atmos on apple music. I'm curious what people think about the bandwith bitrate limitation on streaming compared to the not limited disc.

 

[JulesRules]

end of the night blew my mind in atmos.. prob uses everything the most O.O! wow! I am on the DTS-HD and it sounds alot better for some reason atmos is really quiet and i have to jack it up to -20 when i have it on -24 db for dts-hd it sounds fine and full..Guess they were right steve mixes the DTS-HD 5.1 first before others.

I really hope Wilson's mix can rectify that song for me, because I was disappointed listening to the stereo mix. I found the synths so ear-piercing that I had to turn it way down.
At least the band managed to talk the label out of releasing that song as the first single. Would've killed my anticipation stone dead.

 

[alek2702]

I really hope Wilson's mix can rectify that song for me, because I was disappointed listening to the stereo mix. I found the synths so ear-piercing that I had to turn it way down.
At least the band managed to talk the label out of releasing that song as the first single. Would've killed my anticipation stone dead.

One of the synths seems to be missing from the Atmos mix completely (streaming version at least), so you'll be pleased

 

[alek2702]

Actually, there some more elements missing from the surround mix (streaming) on End of Night:

- the sine-wave synth that goes up a couple of times really loudly in the stereo mix is gone​

- the piano/synth arpeggios that start at the 'Tears you turn to joy' section before the chorus are gone​

- when the song stops for a second after the chorus, on the stereo mix there's a pulsing synth sound and reverb, on the surround mix they're gone​

​

I wonder if those were some last-minute changes from the band after the stereo mix was completed, or if SW just felt the mix was too cluttered and took out a couple of elements on his own.

 

[sjcorne]

the sine-wave synth that goes up a couple of times really loudly in the stereo mix is gone

This is a positive development for me, I found it distracting and out-of-place on the stereo mix.

 

[madship]

I've been away for a week and a week's worth of mail arrives tomorrow. I hope it's in the pile, but the tracking still shows LANGLEY HWDC since 2/22.

 

[boxhead]

Just for reference my "non-glitch" order (ie I ordered in the original 17 hour window) has arrived at my doorstep in Australia. Apparently it arrived in Sydney last Thursday, so 1.5 - 2 working days in customs and mail delivery isn't too bad in this day and age.

 

[boxhead]

Okay, so after just receiving the Bluray I've checked the DR values of the DTS-MA stream using the DR meter on Foobar. Please note that I haven't entered the actual track names into DVD Audio Extractor so they're just listed as Chapter 01, Chapter 02 etc. I was unable to rip the Atmos stream using DVD Audio Extractor but I imagine it would be similar? In any case it looks somewhat better than the CD.

foobar2000 1.6.8 / Dynamic Range Meter 1.1.1
log date: 2022-02-28 12:58:18

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Analyzed: Tears For Fears / The Tipping Point (DTS)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DR Peak RMS Duration Track
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DR12 -0.10 dB -17.29 dB 4:42 01-Chapter 01
DR12 -0.03 dB -17.09 dB 4:11 02-Chapter 02
DR11 -0.09 dB -17.45 dB 4:30 03-Chapter 03
DR13 -0.06 dB -18.61 dB 3:56 04-Chapter 04
DR12 0.00 dB -16.60 dB 3:09 05-Chapter 05
DR12 -0.09 dB -18.64 dB 6:03 06-Chapter 06
DR11 -0.09 dB -21.32 dB 3:04 07-Chapter 07
DR12 -0.09 dB -17.02 dB 4:36 08-Chapter 08
DR13 -0.05 dB -15.87 dB 3:24 09-Chapter 09
DR13 -0.10 dB -20.96 dB 4:33 10-Chapter 10
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Number of tracks: 10
Official DR value: DR12

Samplerate: 48000 Hz
Channels: 6
Bits per sample: 24
Bitrate: 3563 kbps
Codec: FLAC
================================================================================

 

[JediJoker]

Okay, so after just receiving the Bluray I've checked the DR values of the DTS-MA stream using the DR meter on Foobar. Please note that I haven't entered the actual track names into DVD Audio Extractor so they're just listed as Chapter 01, Chapter 02 etc. I was unable to rip the Atmos stream using DVD Audio Extractor but I imagine it would be similar? In any case it looks somewhat better than the CD.

foobar2000 1.6.8 / Dynamic Range Meter 1.1.1
log date: 2022-02-28 12:58:18

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Analyzed: Tears For Fears / The Tipping Point (DTS)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DR Peak RMS Duration Track
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DR12 -0.10 dB -17.29 dB 4:42 01-Chapter 01
DR12 -0.03 dB -17.09 dB 4:11 02-Chapter 02
DR11 -0.09 dB -17.45 dB 4:30 03-Chapter 03
DR13 -0.06 dB -18.61 dB 3:56 04-Chapter 04
DR12 0.00 dB -16.60 dB 3:09 05-Chapter 05
DR12 -0.09 dB -18.64 dB 6:03 06-Chapter 06
DR11 -0.09 dB -21.32 dB 3:04 07-Chapter 07
DR12 -0.09 dB -17.02 dB 4:36 08-Chapter 08
DR13 -0.05 dB -15.87 dB 3:24 09-Chapter 09
DR13 -0.10 dB -20.96 dB 4:33 10-Chapter 10
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Number of tracks: 10
Official DR value: DR12

Samplerate: 48000 Hz
Channels: 6
Bits per sample: 24
Bitrate: 3563 kbps
Codec: FLAC
================================================================================

The DR meter was never intended for use with more than 2 channels. A DR rating for 5.1 is not going to be equivalent or comparable to a DR rating for stereo. In this case, just use your ears.

 

[Albert Dagger]

Stereo Mix vs. Atmos downmix waveforms (The downmix was performed using best practices).
The stereo mix was reduced by more than 9dB to match the Atmos downmix in perceived loudness.

No doubt the Atmos downmix sounds more relaxed, but still there isn't much difference. I mean, not as much as I was expecting. The stereo mix sounds a bit harsh on a detailed system.
This is the title track. I couldn't notice mixing differences (like others have highlighted for other songs).

 

[boxhead]

The DR meter was never intended for use with more than 2 channels. A DR rating for 5.1 is not going to be equivalent or comparable to a DR rating for stereo. In this case, just use your ears.

Yes, I realise that but I won't be able to use my ears as I won't be buying the CD so no comparison is possible. In this case I thought the vast difference between the CD (DR5) and the Blu-ray (DR12) was significant despite the flawed methodology. Albertop's waveforms above also seem to confirm this.

 

[alek2702]

The DR meter was never intended for use with more than 2 channels. A DR rating for 5.1 is not going to be equivalent or comparable to a DR rating for stereo. In this case, just use your ears.

Luckily the couple of tracks I downmixed to stereo from the Atmos stream also read in two-digit DR numbers, so the mix is definitely a lot more dynamic.

 

[alek2702]

Stereo Mix vs. Atmos downmix waveforms (The downmix was performed using best practices).
The stereo mix was reduced by more than 9dB to match the Atmos downmix in perceived loudness.

No doubt the Atmos downmix sounds more relaxed, but still there isn't much difference. I mean, not as much as I was expecting. The stereo mix sounds a bit harsh on a detailed system.
This is the title track. I couldn't notice mixing differences (like others have highlighted for other songs).

I agree the difference is not huge on some tracks considering the DR numbers, but then you have a track like My Demons where the drums were squashed to hell on the stereo mix.

Atmos downmix top, stereo mix bottom (level matched by ear):

 

[BPWingN]

Mine says it'll be out for delivery tomorrow. I look forward to hearing it.

 

[marcb]

Stereo Mix vs. Atmos downmix waveforms (The downmix was performed using best practices).
The stereo mix was reduced by more than 9dB to match the Atmos downmix in perceived loudness.

No doubt the Atmos downmix sounds more relaxed, but still there isn't much difference. I mean, not as much as I was expecting. The stereo mix sounds a bit harsh on a detailed system.
This is the title track. I couldn't notice mixing differences (like others have highlighted for other songs).


View attachment 76512

Not much difference? Say what?

That’s HUGE peak limiting on the stereo version compared to the Atmos version.

 

[alek2702]

Not much difference? Say what?

That’s HUGE peak limiting on the stereo version compared to the Atmos version.

I also thought a track like Long, Long, Long Time sounds surprisingly similar to the stereo mix, considering the huge difference in numbers.

But then you've got tracks like My Demons or End of Night where the drums are obviously massively muffled and squashed thanks to the limiting, while the surround mix lets them breathe.

 

[alek2702]

BTW @marcb , did you hear anything about your waitlist spot? Last I heard from Anne was on Friday and they were still shipping..

 

[marcb]

BTW @marcb , did you hear anything about your waitlist spot? Last I heard from Anne was on Friday and they were still shipping..

Nope. The last I heard was Wednesday and she said she’d know better “next week”, i.e. this week, after they finished shipping about whether they have remaining stock.

She seemed pretty confident when I initially signed up, but even then I thought she was just being a friendly optimist for me - god bless her...

 

[jimfisheye]

I didn't remember this band as being in my wheelhouse but I had to see what all the kerfuffel was about here. And it's not my "cup of tea" at all!
But the mix sounds great. Clear natural sound, no crude mastering damage, full surround mix. Carry on!

 

[sjcorne]

My expectations for the DTS-HD 5.1 mix were lofty, and for the most part I'm not disappointed. Perhaps since this is a new release and not a remix of a decades-old classic, Wilson felt he was able experiment more with the surround mixes. Lots of swirling effects and 'new' elements popping out, like the synth(?) horns in the left rear speaker doubling the electric guitar pattern in "No Small Thing". All the processed or double-tracked vocal layers are split wide in the rears, while the leads stay solo'd in the center speaker stripped of all effects.

Two (minor) critiques:
- On my system, the center-channel vocals exhibit that common "phantom vs. real center" balance problem. The balance sounds just right if I re-route the center speaker feed to the front channels, or boost my center ~3 dB.
- Maybe I've gotten too used to the compressed stereo presentation, but the drums on the 5.1 mix sound a bit buried and lacking 'oomph' in certain spots (particularly throughout "Master Plan"). I wonder if SW was working with a stereo stem of the entire kit rather than separate multitrack recordings of the kick, snare, overheads, etc? There's very little drum sound in the rear speakers, aside from the odd (sampled?) tom-tom hit. I miss the huge room-filling drums from the Songs From The Big Chair and Seeds Of Love 5.1 remixes.

Huge kudos to Paul Sinclair & SDE for making this happen!