The Demise of disc formats

[ar surround]

These posts are all interesting reads, and I thank you all for your contributions. For me the bottom line is that vinyl, whether it sounds better or not, is just too inconvenient compared to digital formats. It requires too much TLC with setting up the hardware and playing and caring for records.

If you think that my lack of tolerance for vinyl is bad...Heck, my wife can't even be bothered turning on my surround sound system. She says that it's too complicated and simply streams iHeart radio on the smart TV through the TV speakers. When it locks up or won't stream, she comes looking for me because she has no concept of how to dink with the app or rebooting the TV.

 

[Stupy]

Random current thoughts of this amateur music collector with mainly CD's; subject to further change as knowledge and experience inflicts:

- Vinyl was great for the time; that time being prior to the CD.
- Vinyl remains necessary at times due to poor CD mixing/mastering (or never being released in a respectable digital format).
- A vinyl setup, along with record revirginizer, is valuable for digitisation in the above situations;
- CD was a remarkable innovation in its day with the use of optics and lack of physical contact.
- few seemed to know what they were doing in the early days of CD's, then loudness wars took their toll; neither really the fault of the CD format.
- online digital has taken about 20 years to merely equal what CD gave us in quality.
- I was happy with physical discs but physical space has become an issue.
- finally lossless online digital is gaining serious momentum (I like qobuz) lessening the hit from the demise of the CD format.
- higher quality than 16 bit / 44 1kHz lossless may be pointless but with virtually unlimited data storage, meh.
- here's hoping more widespread lossless 5.1 etc downloads and streaming to come to compensate for the broader demise of the disc format.
- not ready to rely on streaming audio - do not trust my favoured music to be there when wanted/ needed.
- reliable personal long term mass data storage presents the practical issue.

It ends up silly. I've been wanting to digitise a vinyl copy of the Go Between's Oceans Apart album for about 10 years now because of how badly they hammed up the CD (which I own) and digital versions. Just to get something slightly less brickwalled. *facepalm*

Cheers

 

[MidiMagic]

These posts are all interesting reads, and I thank you all for your contributions. For me the bottom line is that vinyl, whether it sounds better or not, is just too inconvenient compared to digital formats. It requires too much TLC with setting up the hardware and playing and caring for records.

If you think that my lack of tolerance for vinyl is bad...Heck, my wife can't even be bothered turning on my surround sound system. She says that it's too complicated and simply streams iHeart radio on the smart TV through the TV speakers. When it locks up or won't stream, she comes looking for me because she has no concept of how to dink with the app or rebooting the TV.

I don't find vinyl too inconvenient, except I can't take it in the car.

All I do is take the record out of the sleeve, use the discwasher on it, and load it on the changer. I repeat this if several records are to be played. Then I start the changer.

Random current thoughts of this amateur music collector with mainly CD's; subject to further change as knowledge and experience inflicts:

My random thoughts based on Stupy's

- Vinyl is still great. I use CD because vinyl can't be had for some titles and can't be used in the car.
- Vinyl remains necessary because many records I have were never released on CD.
- Many of my records predate vinyl (they are shellac).
- I have a simple system to make CDs from records.
- CD is a remarkable innovation with the use of optics and lack of physical contact.
- I agree that few knew what they were doing in the early CD days. I have one with RIAA EQ still on it.
- Loudness wars existed in vinyl too. I have some brickwalled 45s.
- Online digital is garbage in quality.
- I wont buy without physical discs.
- I lost music files too many times (ex took files and backups, tree fell on house, file service evaporated).
- I want as few formats as possible. At one time I had 16 players for different formats.
- Higher quality than 16 bit / 44 1kHz lossless is pointless. Incompatibility outweighs any improvement.
- I never buy online.
- Can't count on streaming audio - "Cancelled" items deleted (cancer cultule).
- Nothing computer related lasts over 10 years. I have records over 100 years old.
- My record changer is 60 years old. It will last 60 years more unless they take away 120V 60Hz power.

 

[Colin London]

It has hit me like bolt of lightning one of the biggest store in NZ called the "Ware House" has virtually pulled all disc formats of the shelves with in a week 4k Blue-ray CD`s. and LP`s. GONE.....
There is still shop`s where you can still buy from who specialized in these items but when a big business does this you can see the writing on the wall of these formats.

Are we heading to a place where you can only get music as a down stream or buy a music file?????? have you notice this happening in your country.
BBQ...

But a Brand New Gary Moore BluSpec CD has just come out

 

[Scott65]

But a Brand New Gary Moore BluSpec CD has just come out

This place in Australia is still going strong:

https://www.birdland.com.au/about-us/
Of course, if they stop making discs things would change....

 

[Petr Kropotkin]

I don't find vinyl too inconvenient, except I can't take it in the car.

Time to upgrade your system then:

 

[ubertrout]

I was in a large Best Buy recently, and they were carrying a quarter of the physical media they carried a year ago. It was mostly replaced by podcasting/webcasting gear. No CDs left at all of course.

 

[Audiowannabee]

I was in a large Best Buy recently, and they were carrying a quarter of the physical media they carried a year ago. It was mostly replaced by podcasting/webcasting gear. No CDs left at all of course.

The way of the world lately is so f*cking sad

 

[J. PUPSTER]

I was in a large Best Buy recently, and they were carrying a quarter of the physical media they carried a year ago. It was mostly replaced by podcasting/webcasting gear. No CDs left at all of course.

I recall seeing a post by you awhile back about a large B&M place in Detroit, like King something or other maybe is that still in business?

 

[ubertrout]

I recall seeing a post by you awhile back about a large B&M place in Detroit, like King something or other maybe is that still in business?

Yup! John K King Books | Detroit | Used & Rare Books

It's 98% books though, with a few scattered CD areas.

 

[MagnumX]

I was in a large Best Buy recently, and they were carrying a quarter of the physical media they carried a year ago. It was mostly replaced by podcasting/webcasting gear. No CDs left at all of course.

That and the lack of software are the reasons I don't go to Best Buy anymore. The days of perusing stores at the mall or places like Best Buy are over. I mean who just walks into Best Buy to get a TV or Appliance on a regular basis? Not many. I used to stop in and look at movie, PC games or music sales back in the 1990s and 2000s and now there's no point since they ditched most of it. The thing is when you're there for one thing, you might see something else (e.g. Dyson Vacuum on sale or whatever) and buy something else. But if you don't go there, you won't buy anything from them. Amazon gets all the sales instead and companies like Best Buy can go out of business.

They look short term (CD sales are down, so lets ditch the space and put in more cell phone accessories and squeeze 50 more TVs into a display instead), but don't realize that customers like me who came to look through the music and movies might end up buying an antenna, cell phone accessory WHILE I'M THERE even if I don't buy a CD. How many people used to go to book stores while walking around in the mall and look through a Computer Shopper catalog (or there to buy one) and end up buying a calendar, book, other magazine while they're there? I used to go to look at D&D books, dice, etc. growing up (new editions came out irregularly from our perspective) and I might buy a book on sale instead or a magazine. Now I buy NOTHING because the malls are all dying and brick and mortar stores are drying up and while much of it is due to the Internet, their own decisions about how to use their store space certainly don't encourage me to come to the store. If anything, they push me towards Amazon where you still can buy CDs and Blu-Rays.

The sad thing is a lot of us would be better off walking around a mall (you at least get off your butt and walk around) than sitting at home on a computer looking through web pages....

 

[Audiowannabee]

That and the lack of software are the reasons I don't go to Best Buy anymore. The days of perusing stores at the mall or places like Best Buy are over. I mean who just walks into Best Buy to get a TV or Appliance on a regular basis? Not many. I used to stop in and look at movie, PC games or music sales back in the 1990s and 2000s and now there's no point since they ditched most of it. The thing is when you're there for one thing, you might see something else (e.g. Dyson Vacuum on sale or whatever) and buy something else. But if you don't go there, you won't buy anything from them. Amazon gets all the sales instead and companies like Best Buy can go out of business.

They look short term (CD sales are down, so lets ditch the space and put in more cell phone accessories and squeeze 50 more TVs into a display instead), but don't realize that customers like me who came to look through the music and movies might end up buying an antenna, cell phone accessory WHILE I'M THERE even if I don't buy a CD. How many people used to go to book stores while walking around in the mall and look through a Computer Shopper catalog (or there to buy one) and end up buying a calendar, book, other magazine while they're there? I used to go to look at D&D books, dice, etc. growing up (new editions came out irregularly from our perspective) and I might buy a book on sale instead or a magazine. Now I buy NOTHING because the malls are all dying and brick and mortar stores are drying up and while much of it is due to the Internet, their own decisions about how to use their store space certainly don't encourage me to come to the store. If anything, they push me towards Amazon where you still can buy CDs and Blu-Rays.

The sad thing is a lot of us would be better off walking around a mall (you at least get off your butt and walk around) than sitting at home on a computer looking through web pages....

I still buy stuff but I do everything I can to NOT buy anything from Amazon & Walmart

I buy from anywhere else BUT Amazon n Walmart!

 

[marcb]

That and the lack of software are the reasons I don't go to Best Buy anymore. The days of perusing stores at the mall or places like Best Buy are over. I mean who just walks into Best Buy to get a TV or Appliance on a regular basis? Not many. I used to stop in and look at movie, PC games or music sales back in the 1990s and 2000s and now there's no point since they ditched most of it. The thing is when you're there for one thing, you might see something else (e.g. Dyson Vacuum on sale or whatever) and buy something else. But if you don't go there, you won't buy anything from them. Amazon gets all the sales instead and companies like Best Buy can go out of business.

They look short term (CD sales are down, so lets ditch the space and put in more cell phone accessories and squeeze 50 more TVs into a display instead), but don't realize that customers like me who came to look through the music and movies might end up buying an antenna, cell phone accessory WHILE I'M THERE even if I don't buy a CD. How many people used to go to book stores while walking around in the mall and look through a Computer Shopper catalog (or there to buy one) and end up buying a calendar, book, other magazine while they're there? I used to go to look at D&D books, dice, etc. growing up (new editions came out irregularly from our perspective) and I might buy a book on sale instead or a magazine. Now I buy NOTHING because the malls are all dying and brick and mortar stores are drying up and while much of it is due to the Internet, their own decisions about how to use their store space certainly don't encourage me to come to the store. If anything, they push me towards Amazon where you still can buy CDs and Blu-Rays.

The sad thing is a lot of us would be better off walking around a mall (you at least get off your butt and walk around) than sitting at home on a computer looking through web pages....

I don’t think they’re unaware of people like you. I just think they don’t believe (correctly IMO) there are many of you left. I’m just one person, but I know virtually no one who still buys or plays CDs (or any physical digital disc) - and I’m of the age that almost all of my friends and acquaintances grew up with records and then CDs.

CDs were (as you describe) basically a loss leader for many big box retailers. But a loss leader is useless if almost nobody cares about the carrot.

 

[marcb]

I still buy stuff but I do everything I can to NOT buy anything from Amazon & Walmart

I buy from anywhere else BUT Amazon n Walmart!

Amazon and walmart will ultimately determine when the CD dies. Once they start to pull back, the whole house of cards will collapse quickly in the US market at the least - and probably globally.

 

[MagnumX]

I don’t think they’re unaware of people like you. I just think they don’t believe (correctly IMO) there are many of you left. I’m just one person, but I know virtually no one who still buys or plays CDs (or any physical digital disc) - and I’m of the age that almost all of my friends and acquaintances grew up with records and then CDs.

CDs were (as you describe) basically a loss leader for many big box retailers. But a loss leader is useless if almost nobody cares about the carrot.

I find it very strange you know of no one on a site where nearly every single last person on here plays physical media (SACD being common plus BD Audio, etc.) and hates streaming. Because music is lossy online, I tend to buy the CD and dump it myself. I don't always do that these days, but if it's important, I'll order it. Sometimes the CD is $6 and the iTunes version is $10 or 12 and it's lossy. WTF would I pay them more for the lossy version when the lossless version is cheaper and I have a backup?

I also don't have to play "off of physical media" to appreciate the value of physical media (Places like iTunes can take away anything you haven't downloaded at any time and they don't allow 4K downloads, only streamed versions on AppleTV, etc. For instance, the new 4K Indiana Jones transfers have improved visuals (less so on iTunes streaming than the UHD discs), but they neutered the bass by 11dB compared to the THX Blu-Ray release. Thunder sounds more like a fart now. If you don't own the previous Blu-Ray or kept a copy of the 5.1 DD version of the previous 2K version, you are SOL. Enjoy the farts for thunder).

Having said that, you're right. MOST people don't care. They only care about convenience. The also don't care about sound quality or anything else. They live for Facebook and other crap and society is poorer as a result.

 

[Audiowannabee]

I don’t think they’re unaware of people like you. I just think they don’t believe (correctly IMO) there are many of you left. I’m just one person, but I know virtually no one who still buys or plays CDs (or any physical digital disc) - and I’m of the age that almost all of my friends and acquaintances grew up with records and then CDs.

CDs were (as you describe) basically a loss leader for many big box retailers. But a loss leader is useless if almost nobody cares about the carrot.

I play discs...have 4 players in house...had 5 till my cdp died

Loved discs

 

[marcb]

I find it very strange you know of no one on a site where nearly every single last person on here plays physical media (SACD being common plus BD Audio, etc.) and hates streaming. Because music is lossy online, I tend to buy the CD and dump it myself. I don't always do that these days, but if it's important, I'll order it. Sometimes the CD is $6 and the iTunes version is $10 or 12 and it's lossy. WTF would I pay them more for the lossy version when the lossless version is cheaper and I have a backup?

I also don't have to play "off of physical media" to appreciate the value of physical media (Places like iTunes can take away anything you haven't downloaded at any time and they don't allow 4K downloads, only streamed versions on AppleTV, etc. For instance, the new 4K Indiana Jones transfers have improved visuals (less so on iTunes streaming than the UHD discs), but they neutered the bass by 11dB compared to the THX Blu-Ray release. Thunder sounds more like a fart now. If you don't own the previous Blu-Ray or kept a copy of the 5.1 DD version of the previous 2K version, you are SOL. Enjoy the farts for thunder).

I know of no friends or acquaintances in real life. And there are more than a few here and other similar sites who don’t play physical discs - and haven’t for years. Plus all streaming is not lossy.

Nevertheless, people on sites like this - including me - are, um...outliers. We don’t remotely represent 99.99% of the public.

Unless subsidized, every part of the supply chain has to make money for physical digital discs to remain viable. Once one domino falls, they’ll all fall. And personally think it’s inevitable - and not too far into the future. I certainly think new discs will be a thing of past by the end of the decade - and probably sooner.

 

[jimfisheye]

Worst purchase started with the black Friday facsimile items. They'd have the factory put together last years model into this years enclosure for various consumer electronics products. You see the new looking thing but for a great price. You miss the fine print that it's really last years (and thus doesn't have whatever the new feature is).

That morphed into pretty much their entire inventory turning into facsimile products and bootlegs over time. I suppose stuff like CDs are probably still legitimate. I wouldn't bet on it though!

Amazon appeared like they were serious in the beginning. They had standards and were quick to kick off 3rd party sellers that got complaints. Fast forward... They have somehow outdone Ebay for the largest collection of bootleg and facsimile products known to man! The pandemic profiteering. Refusing to even disclose who their 3rd party sellers are or where they are.

I can't tell anyone what to do. But I want to say to avoid Worst Purchase and Amazon with no exception. You're only going to get ripped off anyway.


These were never places to buy music where I've lived. They were the ripoff places!
I had The Mad Hatter records and tapes in Fond du Lac, WI in high school. (Musicland was the shitty corporate place in the mall.) We had the Exclusive Co. in Madison, WI where I ended up. The used shops were Mad City Records and B-Sides.

Now everything is online. Buyer beware more than ever now of course, because there are lossy copies being sold for full price all over the place! As usual, the popular places are the scammiest. iTunes and Amazon. HDTracks is half turned into the back pages of the "audiophile" magazines. Sometimes you get the goods but sometimes you get stepped on copies of shit in HD and they never offer providence.

Apparently Apple is finally going to try to get real and ditch the lossy stuff? After 8 years now of being post-Jobs shitty Apple and 20 years of pushing ALAC but selling only lossy in their store? Haha.

I don't know how the average consumer is supposed to navigate this! Many do not of course, and end up with earbuds, shitbars, and mp3 copies of volume war CDs.

 

[MagnumX]

I know of no friends or acquaintances in real life.

The people on sites like this - including me - are, um...outliers. We don’t remotely represent 99.99% of the public.

The Bell Curve says "most" people fall in the 90-110 IQ range and it drops exponentially below/above, so I tend not to trust things the "masses" do (from Facebook to drugs, smoking, etc. whatever). Einstein was right about many things where the world was wrong. Thus, I still buy CDs and hold onto them even if I dump/stream them in actual use because it's the smart thing to do. I couldn't care less what Joe Average does. Unfortunately, the economy doesn't work that way. But we should be demanding lossless music, etc. online that's not encrypted, etc. Too many things are going in the wrong direction.

 

[4-earredwonder]

I still buy stuff but I do everything I can to NOT buy anything from Amazon & Walmart

I buy from anywhere else BUT Amazon n Walmart!

I'm still a big collector of UHD4K discs and Amazon usually has THE best prices .... sometimes as low as $5 and I wait for their Amazon Prime and Black Friday Sales where top titles are drastically reduced. Best buy is a close second when they have their UHD4K steelbook sales.

As for music discs ....ImportCD and Deep discount most especially when they have their 15% off sales ..... but NOW only on IN STOCK items ....no pre~orders!